Pen test on 8, 6, 4 from left to right:
Pen test close up on 4:
Pen test close up on 6:
Pen test close up on 8:
Never having seen a pen test done before I'm not sure what I'm looking at but 4 definitely looks lower down in the block than the others.
Should they be absolutely flush? Ie were the blocks decked after liner installation? As we are talking less than 0.1mm I'd say. Would try to feeler gauge it but its such a small amount.
Re dye penetration test (pen test) you're basically looking for pink or red lines. As to how they should look on a good block.. Don't know :(
Gilbert/Marty: What did your respective engine builds look like? Replace everything that moves to original spec, or just replacing stuff that needed to be? Did you uprate anything?
Think I'll go V8developments on this, partly because I can't afford the Turner one now after receiving a highly unwelcome > 1k gas bill.
If you have a look here: Engine Rebuild, I did a whole thread on my engine build (partly for advice, as I'd never done one before, and partly for my own benefit to be able to look back on - as I'd never done one before :) )
I basically did a complete rebuild - built the entire engine up in the garage and then too it (in the RR) to the workshop to do the swap.
I bought a short engine from V8 dev with top hat block, and then built the rest up myself, I got a spare set of heads looked at by a machine shop (which I'll do myself next time!) and then did the assembly myself, with help from the forum and the workshop/overhaul manuals.
The only bits I did over stock were the ARP head studs, instead of bolts - and I fitted a Piper Torquemax camshaft to it. Otherwise it's all pretty much stock... I reconditioned the front cover (new oil pump gears, O-rings on the relief valves etc), put new rockers and valve springs on, and various other bits and pieces. I was tempted to make it a bit bigger like a 5L but decided that I didn't quite have the ££ to jump up to that! Besides - she seems to pull nicely anyway, and can be bloody quick off the line when you let it as is (not gonna win any races, but quick for a 2.5T RR!
Hope this helps
Marty
Cheers Marty, I have read your thread a few times with interest, was just looking for a condensed version to save me another few hours looking at shiny things ;)
V8 developments mentioned a high torque can, wonder if that's the piper one you mention.
If you're throwing a new engine in, I reckon this one is about as good as you're going to find. That's who I bought my 4.0 off, and while it isn't perfect it's been good enough for 560 quid delivered, on my doorstep two days later.
A strange coincidence that both the GEMS and Thor top-hat engines he's selling have 25000 miles on them?
I wouldn't go for a secondhand one at £1600 when for only slightly more you can get one that has been done and is known good.
I took the heads off mine and took the short engine to V8 Developments. They did everything. Acid dipped and crack tested before they started. New core plugs, crank checked and polished (but would have been ground if it had needed it), new big end and main bearings, top hat liners, new pistons and rings, block line bored and new camshaft bearings fitted, new camshaft and followers, new oil pump with chain and sprockets so really, all that was left of my original engine was the block, crank, rods and flywheel. They built it back up with my flywheel and sump and even changed one of the knock sensors as that had a crack in the casing so probably wasn't working that well. While they were doing the block, I pulled the heads apart and they got new guides, valves and a skim but with hindsight, it probably wouldn't have cost much more to have swapped them for a pair of their recon'ed heads. Put the engine back in the car and fitted the heads with it in place using a set of ARP studs too.
Ray at V8 Dev certainly knows his stuff and does a really good job. If he spots anything that isn't right he will deal with it (like my knock sensor) rather than just leave it as it isn't part of the normal build like some places would.
Gilbert, whilst I wait for V8 to get back to me, what level did you tear your block down to before taking it in to them? Did you clean it up to save them some time?
Orangebean wrote:
A strange coincidence that both the GEMS and Thor top-hat engines he's selling have 25000 miles on them?
I thought that; between him and the Aberystwyth crowd also on ebay, I felt that neither looked particularly trustworthy. Both look like breakers, yet want your engine back, and as you noted, magically engines have 25k on them etc.
mace wrote:
Gilbert, whilst I wait for V8 to get back to me, what level did you tear your block down to before taking it in to them? Did you clean it up to save them some time?
All I took off were the heads, engine mounts and water pump and left them to do the rest. I don't remember if I even drained the oil from it to be honest. I gave them a new oil filter to fit and that was about it. It came back in the same state but very clean and shiny.
I wouldn't go for a second hand neither, I've learned my lesson with 2 previous engines. Here in Holland I found a shop that only did the tophat liners, coreplugs and cam bearings for under €1000.-, after all I was on a budget too. Later I brought the heads for valvelapping, skimming and pressurecheck. The mains, conrodbearings, pistonrings etc. I did myself.
It's for little use for you in UK but maybe V8 Dev does some sort of 'a la carte' too to reduce costs. You know you have a good engine by then.
Tony.
They do roughly the same (see http://www.v8developments.co.uk/workshop/reliner/index.shtml). £950 to fit top hats, core plugs and new camshaft bearings. You'd need to supply them with your pistons so the can bore the liners to suit the pistons, whack in a set of rings, big ends and mains and you would save quite a bit (but have to do more of the work yourself).
Similar cost to:
http://www.johnealesroverv8.co.uk/18.html
or an even cheaper solution:
http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/ductile-iron-flanged-liner-c2x20634989?PGFLngID=1 and have the machining done by the shop of your choice
To give your budget even more of a treat, you could remove the old liners yourself!
https://youtu.be/8V7SMhO70ss
https://youtu.be/JX2KtMuWogU
Or even cheaper here http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/cylinder-liner-da1185-p-27307.html but would anyone seriously consider fitting liners from Britpart?
Think I'll pass on the fine Britpart offerings..
Gilbert; I take it you left the front cover on the engine then, from what you've said?
OB:
Seen those vids, braver than I am (although if I was against the wall, I probably wouldn't put it past myself to have a go).
I did consider having the work done up here, but there are only really two "proper" engineering shops I know of up in Glasgow, and one supplied me the wrong kit for the Tino engine rebuild I did a while back. The other got my business for the head skimming for this V8 and I couldn't fault their work or helpfulness. Only problem is they only have one guy that does machining and he's on holiday for the foreseeable, no doubt whilst work piles up for him.
A plus for V8 developments is that they are based near Spalding, and as my mother lives in Downham Market and I'll be seeing her in Sheffield with family in about a weeks time, I'm hoping I can lug the lump down there with me (via Devon for a family hol), bung it in her boot, and she can get it to them on her way home. Alternatively I might take it direct to Spalding then go to Sheffield, looks like its approximately a 2h30m detour. Depends on time really, and how the kids/wife cope with the drive.
Re the £950 package, I'll need to wait for them to come back to me with prices/recommendations. I'm happy to do some of the work myself, but don't have the gear to check bearing clearances or machining, so anything that might require that really needs them to do it.
Depending on numbers, I might bung the heads in with the block and get them to replace the valve stem seals/valves as required. Heads are already skimmed so that doesn't need redoing. Again as that all requires machining, although I'm quite happy lapping valves and putting it all back together, I doubt the labour saved if I get them to send me the parts will amount to anything worth bothering about.
Re the checking bearing clearances etc you don't need big bucks kit.
Plastigauge does the job nicely:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plastigauge-Precision-Clearance-Gauge-0-007-020-0-175mm-0-5mm-Bearing-/371172227641?
Something like this is always useful:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable-Micrometer-Set-Vintage-Moore-and-Wright-/201886089427?
Together with one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moore-Wright-2-to-12-Internal-Bore-Micrometer-Set-/272631276875?
and to complete your metrics set:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-Dial-test-indicator-DTI-gauge-magnetic-base-stand-clock-gauge/281638025978?
EDIT- got my juices flowing when I was searching for the tools above- I love vintage engineering tools, so I bought this for a silly offer price much less than the listing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371914653881