Cheers Tony
I'm getting somewhere (slowly) using the Vogels pinout you kindly sent me, blown up to A3 so I can read it!
There are some very crunchy/ overheated (old overheating) cables in the lpg loom:
I definitely have 12v switched at the ECU connector. 12v batt past the inline fuse but am having problems finding it at the ECU connectors so that's where my focus is at moment
The mess of loom forced down into the GEMS ECU box that I have to unwrap/ untangle:
OK- have now proved that I have permanent vBatt into LPG ECU pin (#43), switched vBatt into LPG ECU pin (#41), measured across to LPG ECU main ground pin (#51) with engine running. No interruptions to any measurements at any time.
While sitting in car Petrol light came on at switch, but after a couple of seconds, went out and I'm thinking I heard a relay like click under bonnet at same time (poss a solenoid?).
Plugged 4.6.1 into LPG ECU and was asked if I'd like to load information. naturally said yes! Got to 79% loading on progress bar then threw up error message saying loading failed- try again? So I did, a couple of times, but never got past that point...
I see you have one loom (of two) going to the LPG injectors that has a red sleeve, in my set up that is bank 2 (cyl. 2, 4, 6, 8). At the injectors oddly enough they are marked A, B, C, D for cyl. 1, 3, 5, 7 and E, F, G, H for cyl. 2, 4, 6, 8.
There are also 2 grounds, one for the tankvalve which I also grounded there and another one which I directly connected to the -batt. post.
Hope this helps a bit, must be quite a struggle so to see.
Everything helps Tony. I'm just plodding through faultfinding. LPG/ Petrol switch is my current focus as it's next link in the chain!
As Jackk and Ferryman said, also there should be a tie-wrap holding the cover to the loom where the loom first enters, probably need to cut the tie-wrap.
Did you get my bit that implied it may have worked OK before if the chassis was earthed before (but now with ECU not bolted to chassis you lose this other earth point). Chassis shouldn't need to be earthed but I've found on older ECUs earthing the chassis can help. When I see a problem like yours I measure voltage between chassis earth and battery earth, any voltage above say 0.5 when all solenoids and injectors are working may imply a problem (which can cause analogues signals such as pressures and temperatures to be read incorrectly), sometimes just earthing the chassis can help.
Simon
Yeah- I'm in there Simon- pics above were taken before I got cover off to do measurements!
Lpgc wrote:
As Jackk and Ferryman said, also there should be a tie-wrap holding the cover to the loom where the loom first enters, probably need to cut the tie-wrap.
Simon
I edited since you quoted me OB, bit more info.
Simon- you don't happen to have a pinout for the Alisei main connector do you? Tony's Vogel one was fine for the main power stuff, but differs when it comes to the switch
Cheers
Mark
EDIT- just seen your edit above- will digest, but have taken my measurements at ECU earth input pin
When you say chassis do you mean vehicle chassis earth, which it is and I've checked for drop between it and batt earth, or LPG ECU chassis which was never earthed per se as it sat inside the redundant GEMS ECU box. I'll stick an earth from LPG ECU case to batt earth to see what happens...
Lpgc wrote:
Did you get my bit that implied it may have worked OK before if the chassis was earthed before (but now with ECU not bolted to chassis you lose this other earth point). Chassis shouldn't need to be earthed but I've found on older ECUs earthing the chassis can help. When I see a problem like yours I measure voltage between chassis earth and battery earth, any voltage above say 0.5 when all solenoids and injectors are working may imply a problem (which can cause analogues signals such as pressures and temperatures to be read incorrectly), sometimes just earthing the chassis can help.
Simon
Later on I'll see if I can dig out the pinout info I made myself years ago, I've never seen an official or online pinout for AEB systems though.
Probably no need, as only difference between 2568 systems is switch and on later looms the additional wires that can be connected to the vehicle's OBD port. Without re-reading the thread I seem to remember Gilbert saying Vogel fitted OMVL systems, though it is Tartarini 2568s that I'd expect to be maybe different regards the switch.
While you're under the cover, check the earth wire connections in the loom under the cover are all good. Check the pins on the ECU itself aren't tarnished particularly on main earth and main power feed.
Simon
5mv between ECU case and battery ground and pin# 51 (ECU main ground) and batt ground.
Pretty much background noise for that particular meter. Direct earth cable from ECU case to batt ground made no difference. Gave connectors a shot of contact cleaner this morning, but I'll get in there with a cotton bud!
Simin- can I assume that any solid black cable is (or is meant to be) an earth?
Lpgc wrote:
While you're under the cover, check the earth wire connections in the loom under the cover are all good.
Simon
The red/ black pin in the molex diagnostics connector is broken. That can't help with diagnostics!
It's not stuck in my Serial end of the molex!
Fortunately I have a bag of assorted Molex's (Molii?!) at home, hopefully among them will be a set of pins the correct size. If so, will make a new Molex
Orangebean wrote:
Simin- can I assume that any solid black cable is (or is meant to be) an earth?
Lpgc wrote:
While you're under the cover, check the earth wire connections in the loom under the cover are all good.
Simon
Yes but watch out for the rpm wire which is brown inside a black sheath.
Looks like you've found the connection problem with the broken red/black in the Molex connector anyway.. Well, former problem with connection before the switch wouldn't even light. The later fitted Supaseal connectors are much better than Molex though you do see the odd bent pin.
Simon
Was a brown wire in a black sheath! I had to replace that one most of the way with a plain brown one as the insulation was damaged in a few places!
Lpgc wrote:
Yes but watch out for the rpm wire which is brown inside a black sheath.
Well I checked all of the black cables at LPG ECU plug (it's a shame you can't see what's getting into the ECU though the plug, but no way am I attempting to dismantle the ECU!) for continuity to battery earth and all checked out OK. Thinking about it though, had ECU plugged in when I tested, so for a true individual continuity check guess I have to do it again with the ECU unplugged?!
Drivers kick panel and instrument binnacle cover (where LPG switch was positioned horizontally so you can't see lights when driving!) off tomorrow so I can see what I can see at the switch.
The plot thickens and I'm getting less optimistic as the options are tested and found working...
Mark, I would suggest you try hanging your meter on the +ve feeds and seeing what voltage it shows while the light comes on for a few seconds and then what it reads when it goes out. It sounds like you have a high resistance connection in one of the power feeds that is dropping the voltage when current is being drawn. Personally I'd suspect the ignition switched as I think the permanent is just switched by the controller and used to energise the solenoids while the ignition switched supplies the main circuitry.
I'll give it a go Richard. It'll be a waiting game as the petrol light appearing is a very random thing.
I'm kind of hoping it's not the ignition switched as that emanates from under the bloody plenum upper on #1 injector and I REALLY don't want to be taking that off again!
Does the ignition feed have to come from the injector at that point or can I substitute it from somewhere at the ECU end of the feed to that injector if it does prove to be faulty?
It doesn't matter where it comes from as long as it is there. It doesn't even have to come from the common petrol injector feed, it can come from any ignition switched supply. However, be wary that the Acc supply usually goes off during cranking which can cause problems which is why the injector feed is favourite. On both of mine it's picked up at the petrol ECU (along with the TPS, rpm and, in the case of the SE with it's multipoint, the injector cuts).