Cleaned the MAF last night, not that doing that ever actually works but it was pretty grotty. This morning i refitted it, plugged it back in and started the engine. Fired right up and idled and revved completely happily. So whatevers going on is very clearly temperature related.
Coolant sensor checks out fine on the live data, as does intake air temp, so its gorra be something that doesnt like getting hot and is stopping working...
Sequential system with a Bigas ECU.
Went out just now as its been sat a while and decided to see if it would start. With MAF plugged in, it catches then immediately stalls. Tried a couple times, same thing. Unplugged the MAF again, this time it catched, revved a bit, almost died, revved a bit, almost died then shot up to 2500rpm and ran fine. Put the MAF back on, same thing as the first time, an initial catch then just dies. Unplugged it again, and again, it repeated the catch-rev-almost-stall-rev-almost-stall-running fine cycle that it did the first time. So Maybe it is the MAF? Or maybe the ECU's just getting confused with sensors appearing and disappearing?
I've taken the MAF off and cleaned it. Trying to diagnose this stuff with no MOT is particularly annoying as i cant really drive it around and see whats happening. At least today i had an excuse as i was driving to and from the MOT station etc.
First of all some background. When i bought the P38, it came off ebay, with one listed fault, a bad crank sensor. Apparently the engine would run for about 15mins, then die. The bloke told me the rear seal was leaking and that had contaminated the sensor. Sounded fishy but the cutting-out-when-warm i'd seen before with crank sensors, so i figured it probably just needed a new one.
When i got the truck home, i put a new crank sensor in it, but discovered the one i took out really wasnt all that old. Hmmmm!
So, take the P38 in for its MOT today, Drove it up and down the dual carridgeway probably 6 or 7 miles to make sure it was all running fine, then dropped it in for its test. Went back to collect it and the boy tells me he couldnt test it as it wouldnt run, kept cutting out. Great.
So i drove it home, just. Last half mile it was acting very strangely, missing and cutting out and not wanting to idle, before finally stopping right outside the house. I managed to coax it onto the drive, and sat there pondering what was going on. Tried ot start it a few times and it would start, rev up a bit then you could hear the engine had simply stopped firing. Adding more throttle would sometimes help it pickup but it would fart about for a few seconds then die.
First thing i did, somewhat randomly, was pop the petrol cap off, to be greeted with a loud and pronounced hiss. Hmm, vacuum in the tank perhaps? I started it, and it fired up perfectly and dropped to a nice idle, revved fine, ran fine, all seemed fine. OK i thaught, somethings wrong with the tank breather. But lets be sure, i'll take it for a drive and see if i can repeat the same fault.
Drove to the petrol station, no dramas, removed cap and there was a small hiss. Put a tenner in and drove home. About a quarter mile away this time, it just dies. I coast into a side road and try to restart, but nope it starts revs abit, pops farts and cuts out. OK i thaught if its a fuel delivery issue, i'll see if it'll switch over onto gas. Started it, revved it a bit and hit the gas button. Once gas came on it suddenly sounded much nicer, revved up nicely, but it was short lived, as a few moments later it starts missing on gas as well before stalling.
Scratching my head and wondering how i'm going to get it home, i sat about a bit, tried it a few times, then after some pondering, unplugged the MAF... It fired right up. Waited a moment to see if it was shortlived, but nope, kept ticking over. But hmm! its done exactly this before with the petrol cap.... So set off home and it drove home just fine. Much like the trip to the petrol station, it drove with no issues and all worked perfectly.
Back at the house i ran it on the drive for 10 minutes with no issues.
Sooo, whats going on? MAF failure? Fuel tank cap a red herring?
ahha that makes a bit more sense then, and explains why the part i found above only has one hole for the brake pipe and not a hole for the flexi. Its from the body end of that second flexi. I see now on the microcat drawing, that the lower chassis tab does not have a part number, though the upper one does.
If its not too much trouble, a pic of the routing of the second flexi and short hardline would be appreciated.
This is interesting:
screen grab taken from autodoc.co.uk, who list the caliper flexi hose and show it coming with the metal plate.
Ferryman, those pics are great! Could you possibly photo the axle end of that flexi hose, so i can see if whatever is supposed to be at that end exists on my axle?
also, the brackets that you've pictured, are they bolted to a tab thats attached to the chassis?
Interesting that your brackets have two holes, one for the pipe and one for the ABS sensor, whereas the part number i found only appears to have one hole. More searching required!
Sloth wrote:
Could always use some big chunky cable ties to hold the bracket in place on the axle, even if just temporarily. Not sure I'd want to drive around with that flapping about risking the solid lines fracturing.
I already fitted a jubilee clip around the axle tube and thru the hole in the bracket to secure it. Its much better now, not flapping around, but its still not in the correct place, and the hardlines have had n months/years of being getting waggled about so i dont trust them and thus it needs replaced anyway!
it looks like the chassis brackets for the jump hoses can be purchased from the dealer, and just bolt on...
Microcat suggests its this piece: http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/107960/5497/bracket___brake_pipe
Hence hoping for some photos, if i can see where they attach and see if my chassis has provision for the mounting bolt etc!
Bolting on a couple brackets and making up some short brake lines (which need remade anyway given the mess of the ones on there) seems an easier solution than trying to weld a platform onto an axle full of gear oil...
While bleeding my rear brakes, i discovered the bracket that holds the rear brake pipes to the axle case just floating in thin air:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hinsgnb8s5vdzsi/2016-09-17%2012.31.51.jpg?dl=0
I tried to see where it had come off, but couldnt figure it out. There was no witness marks or remains where it had broken off. I also noticed the metal shields that are covering the abs cables were only attached at one end, and were just floating at the other end with nothing to bolt onto.
I started wondering what on earth was going on, and today managed to get a photo of the rear axle on a '95 P38:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/82m9nx6ie4062y7/IMG_20160918_140308525.jpg?dl=0
Slightly different angle, but you can see the same hose bracket, and also can see that its bolted to a small "platform" thats part of the axle case. You can also see the wire covers are bolted to a tab on the axle. These features arent present on my axle.
Sooo, i suspect my axle has been swapped out for a later one, as later trucks didnt have the centre mounted flexis, and instead had a flexi at either end.
I want to fix it properly, leaving me two options. Fabricate a platform on the axle case to properly mount the bracket, or convert the pipework properly to the later spec.
Can anyone get me some pics of the later pipe layout? I believe theres some sort of bracket at each end of the axle, then a flexi upto the chassis to another bracket.
I need to have a look on my axle and see if the axle brackets are still present!
My track car has a "12200" wheelchair/golf cart battery and that starts it just fine. Granted thats a little 4 cylinder turbo compared with the big V8, but if its just assisting a flatish main battery, then you'll probably be fine. Motorbike batteries are quite a bit weedier and might struggle.
The most important thing is getting a decent connection between your little battery and the car. I've struggled to jump start my 330d, simply because i couldnt get the jump leads to make a decent connection.
yeh, your right, because you have actually looked properly and realised that. But they have a serious stigma, not helped by the fact that they were one of the first cars to run a body ECU, in a time when garages werent equipped with diagnostic kit and whatnot. That then grows arms and legs and turns into horror stories relayed by folk who havent a clue. Modern stuff is far more complex, but diag kit has vastly improved as well, and often has become more standardised, so its much less of a problem. Every garage will have some sort of fault code scanner these days.
A few landrover mates of mine did the whole "a p38? Are you mental?" when i told them i'd bought mine.
Having bought mine and started looking into the issues, i've realised its all actually quite simple, and really most of the common faults arent that big a deal. The usual problems are often a result of multiple issues, compounding together, due to careless owners etc.
EG someone will lose a key, but wont replace it as landrover made it awkward, then the remaining fob will die, so they'll use the door lock instead, then the door lock microswitch will fail and they're now stuck with a car they cant get into and has immobilised itself. At which point its "OMG P38's suck", when the reality is, they've created the problem themselves over a long period of months by not fixing things properly.
I think the electronics put a lot of the enthusiasts off. A good chunk of the landy fanbase think the 300tdi is the best engine ever made, and even the td5 is devils work. It's not really a surprise there's more classics, they're still regarded as a "proper" landrover.
So the p38 gets lumped in with all the newer range rovers, which essentially went towards the luxury car market than off roaders, and now they're too old to qualify as a luxury car so you hardly see any.
Worth checking the front panhard rod bushes? If they're gone, it might look fine when poking about but axle will be flopping around underneath when moving...
riddlemethis wrote:
What I find strange when it comes to MOT for belts is that if you have a child seat fitted they will simply put unable to test. If anything it should be more important to test it working properly.
Even more ludicrous, if i'd presented it for test with the rear bench folded down, they wouldnt have tested the rear belts at all!
My previous 4x4 got an advisory this year for having the rear seats folded (i'd been to the tip and hadnt put them back up), and when i queried it he said it was to cover himself as he isnt allowed to put the rear seats back up to test the belts, and must test as presented.
Managed to find a guy on lr4x4 breaking a P38 so hopefully getting the three rear clips from him. I did find a few on ebay but wasnt paying £20 each for used ones that are just as likely to be on their last legs as the existing ones.
Yeh, tbh i was a bit miffed it wasnt mentioned on the test sheet, but to be fair to the guy, it was slotted down behind the cable cover that you can see below it and wasnt immediately obvious that it was not actually attached to anything. I only noticed because it was touching the panhard rod. I thaught it had been bent, then realised it wasnt actually attached :P
I'm wondering if someones swapped in a later axle at some point, and just bodged it when they realised the pipes didnt work.
I guess i either need to somehow properly affix the pipes to the axle case, or modify the pipework on the car and switch to the newer layout.
Perhaps someone can snap a pic of how the later setup is layed out and where it attaches to the car?
Finally got all the bits and got stuck into it this morning.
Oil switch changed. Supplied o ring didnt seem all that great, so i swapped it for a slightly thicker one. I think something else in that corner is probably leaking, perhaps the oil pressure relief valve? but will revisit once the MOT is sorted.
Got the new belt tensioner on, and reinstalled alternator and serp belt and got the wires all reattached.
Installed the 8 new plugs found that plug 6 and 8 appeared to be oily rather than just fuelly, i guess something iffy going on with those cylinders, again job for later, will revisit after its done some miles! Using the BKR6E's seemed to make fitting them a lot easier, the smaller hex and smaller socket just seemed to fit easier, which is what i'd hoped.
Quick pic of the plugs:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/biarij5dwpuk06n/2016-09-17%2010.14.17.jpg?dl=0
Got the brake accumulator fitted last week, but i decided to run thru the full bleeding procedure before trying it to make sure it was all good, so went thru the guide from the other forum and got it all bled up. While under the rear end i discovered this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q09e3hbksz4n2bn/2016-09-17%2012.31.36.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hinsgnb8s5vdzsi/2016-09-17%2012.31.51.jpg?dl=0
Bit puzzled as to what its supposed to be attached to, its just floating in thin air. Theres not even the remains of where it might have been welded onto the axle case... I've stuck a jubilee clip around it to secure it to the axle for now, but needs a proper fix. Theres also strange metal shield things (i think they cover the ABS wires) that are just sort of floating around along the rear axle, held on with cable ties. Looks like they should be screwed on or something?
With all that done i fired it up and immediately noticed a significant improvement in the engine tone. It sounded much crisper, revved cleanly and no vibrations. Took it round the block for a spin, brakes now actually work, nice firm pedal and no spongeyness. I didnt take it out on the road proper just went round the block, but happy that its actually progressing :) Just need to rebook the MOT now, and ensure i've not missed anything else that was on the fail sheet!
Got it running today with the new plugs. Sounds and smells much better, revs cleanly and exhaust smells mostly "normal".
6 and 8 i think were actually covered in oil i think, so i'll need to keep an eye on those after i've done some miles and see whats happening.
See what the MOT man says!
Has anyone come up with a decent alternative source for these?
One of mine wasnt catching and failed the MOT, and ones missing its cover. I managed to find a replacement one in the scrappy for the MOT failure side, but it too has already been glued together, and its latching doesnt feel particularly positive. Of the three P38's the scrappy had, they were all in the same state, with cracked/broken/missing covers.
Hoping that some other car might be able to offer a compatible clip?
if your buying a chinese one, get one rated a decent amount above what you want to draw! The server PSU's are likely a better buy, as they're properly quality items and are pretty cheap. Few DPS-600's on ebay for 15quid.
I'd be looking at something like this:
They come in various specs and sizes. Proper branded ones would probably cost hundreds, but the chinese ones seem ok for the most part.
The other option you can find are redundant server PSU's which put out lots of current at 12v, theres a big thread here on converting them:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1292514
You can often find them cheap on ebay. Much higher quality PSU, and less likely to die like the chinese stuff, but require some "fiddling" to get them functioning.
