Anyone know if its possible to bench test an instrument cluster?

I picked up a cluster from the scrap yard. Wanted to power it on to check the mileage, so i've connected the two purples to 12v and the two blacks to ground. Set up a current limited supply of half an amp, and its pulling all of it and showing no signs of life.

Before i just crank up the power i wanted to check if anyones done this before and knows if it will even work? Does it need the serial comms to the BECM to actually come alive?

I've decided to create this thread to document my efforts at creating a replacement for the GEMS MAF. As some of you will know, the GEMS MAF is unavailable anywhere other than landrover (if its even still available) and costs a fortune. Aftermarket units are junk. After buying probably 4 or 5 used MAFs at this point, i wanted to find a solution.

My thinking is simple. If we can figure out the curve, we can build a "module" which can translate the values from some other cars MAF, over to signals the GEMS ECU expects.

Having had some background in tinkering with 2000's VAG cars, i know that their Motronic 7.5 ECU's contain a 512x1 table which contains the MAF calibration in a very simple format: kg/sec against voltage. As such i have curves available for many common VAG MAFs. Those VAG MAF's are ubiquitous, readily available, and cheap new. I also already have a few units knocking around i can use for testing. Half the problem is thus "sorted"

If we can acquire the same curve for the Lucas 20AM, we can then create a translation table between the two.

Trying to find this information online seems pretty much impossible. Tuning info on the GEMS is rare, and i havent been able to find the factory calibration anywhere. However when replacing my broken MAF with yet another used one recently i noticed something potentially useful. RAVE provides airflow figures that should be seen at various engine speeds. One reason i know my newest-old MAF is junk is that it massively overreads against these figures. However while staring at the Nanocom, i realised it was showing both airflow in kg/sec and MAF voltage...

My first attempt then was to drive around, and use the nanocom logging function to log these two values. Unfortunately nanocom updates extremely slowly and seems to only pull one value at a time, which means the displayed airflow and voltage dont line up in time, and thus its all a bit random. Perhaps with many miles of logged data, we could get something resembling a curve, but i wasnt happy with this approach at all.

Spent some time thinking about it, and threw together a MAF "stimulator". Essentially its an Arduino Nano, and a MCP4725 DAC. The arduino is programmed step from 0v to 5v in 0.3125v intervals. Fishing about in my box of parts i found a matching connector for the harness MAF plug, so i can plug this contraption in, inplace of the MAF. The idea being that instead of driving around, i can just sit on the drive, ignition on, engine off, and feed in the sequence of voltages and log the output.

So, tonight, i went to give it a try. And, provisional results are that it worked, kinda! Nanocom kept disconnecting, and i realised the battery was flat, which potentially was causing the nanocom weirdness, however i managed to capture a bit of data before i gave up with the battery down to 7 volts and went and fished out the battery charger instead.

Interestingly you can see the lag i was talking about in the log due to how the nanocom polls each value. In order to try and minimise this, i'd set the Arduino to step the voltage once every 10 seconds. It appears to update the voltage first, then airflow shortly after.

As you can see it was a struggle to keep the thing connected for more than about 30seconds, but you can also see some nice clear data points. Will revisit later in the week when it has a charged battery and see if we can capture the full sweep.

My car has a sad cup holder like this:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/arUAAOSwzixc77dp/s-l1600.jpg

Its rubbish as its too shallow and cups fall out.

I came across this however (ignoring the ludicrous price):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294301903188?hash=item4485c2a954:g:P6kAAOSwwchhAlIq

Much deeper cup holes... Was this a later revision? Or is it some sort of aftermarket addition?

Doing a bit of exterior TLC, i painted up the trims along the top of the door as they were badly faded, and now the rear window trim looks awful.

Anyone know how it comes off?

Can anyone confirm my guess that the GEMS and Thor timing covers are interchangable, with the only difference that i can see being the Thor cover has an extra oil sensor outlet?

I've searched and cant really find anything confirming it, but looking at pics they seem very similar...

I've got the RF filter box so generally don't have any battery issues with the P38. It can sit for weeks or even months and starts no bother... Except Sunday!

Wife used it on Wednesday/Thursday, it's sat for a couple days, went to start it on Sunday and it managed about half an engine revolution, then nothing.

Grabbed a spare battery and jumped it and away it went. Drove 5mins to the park and it restarted fine after the park, and it's been fine since...

I want to give the battery a full charge, but are there any other common issues that can cause drain like this? Couldn't see anything obvious like lights left on.

What I really want is a set of ash grey door cards with leather panels (anyone got a set?), but in the mean time I'm going to vinyl wrap the "wood" inserts on my granite cards..., does anyone have any spares knocking about? At least the drivers side two as I've ruined them with glue from a previous failed idea 🤣

I'm also trying to figure out why the dash trim is rubbing on the small trim next to the steering wheel? Any pointers how that piece comes off and why it's rubbing?

Does anyone know how easily the black lip on the lower edge of the rear spoiler on the tailgate comes off?

The local breakers has a mint tailgate, but the black lip has a bad dent in it.

I need to sort the headliner out, and i've been thinking about the sunroof... I dont like sunroofs, they leak, they're noisey, and my one wont set so i have a permanent error saying "Sunroof not set" on the dashboard.

Seen as i need to rip it all out anyway to do the headliner, i'm wondering if i should just remove it permanently?

Weld something over the hole perhaps? Anyone tried anything similar (on a P38 or anything else)?

Anyone fancy cutting out a section of roof skin from a breaker?

So i'm at one of those dillemas where i cant really figure out the correct path. I think i've posted about this before, and it never really got resolved.

I've got my P38, and to be frank its pretty rough. The bodywork isnt fantastic with some rust in weird places (like on the roof above the tailgate!), the engine needs work (at the very least headgaskets and possibly many other gaskets, but its smokey at startup which might be valve stem seals, and probably needs fully going thru), and the rest of the car is needing a good overhaul, things like brake hoses, shocks etc are probably overdue changing. The interior is also a bit of a mess, with the saggy headliner, and bits of trim removed due to various half finished "projects"... For instance the plastic trims in the boot under the side windows were removed when i was messing about with the RF filter unit thats never worked properly.

I do like the old barge, but it feels like its at that point where old cars get to where it needs a lot of money and time spending. I've been throwing different ideas around, do i buy a better one? If i do, i know its still going to need a lot of work to get it up to standard. Its also thrown a few reliability issues recently one of them being the MAF failing, and there is seemingly no actual solution for that, as new MAF's are not available, meaning the only choice is fitting yet another 30 year old one and waiting for it to die... Aftermarket ECU would fix it, but thats megabucks. A later car with Thor would i guess be a better idea. I just have a niggle that i'm never going to be happy with the Rover V8, with its endless list of issues, and the idea of spending thousands on a full rebuild with top-hat block etc feels like a waste of money.

Another issue has cropped up recently, which is the centre lap-belt in the rear. We have three kids now. The modern child-seat rules dont gel super easily with an old car like this, we do have a seat that fits in with the lap belt, but its basically the one-and-only and the middle child has about outgrown it, but the smallest isnt really big enough yet to move from the rear facing seat into the one fitted with the lap belt.

With all of that in mind, i've been browsing ebay and noticed some Supercharged L322's are getting to be around the 4grand mark. So obviously the niggling itch has started and i'm thinking, do i buy one of those instead? I hear horror stories generally, but then i heard those about the P38 too... So how bad exactly are they? Obviously buying the cheapest-shed-on-ebay is a bad idea, but i can keep my eyes open for a nice one etc.

Thing is i think i prefer the P38, not sure exactly why, perhaps it feels like it has more "original" landrover DNA, but the L322 as a package with that engine, and being more modern with less weird old-car issues is certainly tempting me. The middle three point belt will keep the wife happy too. But if it manages to be even less reliable than the P38 the wife will be pushing it off a cliff and buying an Aygo instead

Anyone here running a pattern MAF on their GEMS P38 and how do you find it?

My third used OEM one has failed, and while it runs pretty well without it, its a pig to start, which left the wife stranded on the schoolrun this morning.

I've ordered yet another used one from ebay, but clearly these are all old and failing.

Pattern units for other cars have a very poor record for actually working properly, so i've generally avoided buying a pattern one for this, but maybe its time to have a look?

Just after going thru 4 pattern crank sensors on this car, i'm super wary!

Not sure if i'm imagining this or not, but is LPG getting harder to find these days? My usual home station (an Asda) and the Morrisons at my parents are still okay, but when out and about i'm finding they are somewhat rarer to come across. A few shells along various common routes i use have all dropped LPG. Theres literally none on my route home from work so if i run out away from home i have to drive home on petrol!

So i'd like to do the gaskets and i'd like some pointers.

I want to use quality parts, i hate shite that doesnt work properly and ends up meaning i have to redo the job.

I've seen the likes of this:
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/stc-4082-v8-gasket-set-top-c2x20634423
Turners have a good name, so i'm hoping this is a decent kit, but anyone know?

Is it worth looking into any of the aftermarket upgraded bits like Cometic Gaskets or ARP head bolts? Most modern engines use MLS gaskets so they're clearly superior, but do they work properly on an old thing like this?

I also need to reseal the front timing cover and fit a new alloy sump pan, any gotchas here?

Also pondering, do i pull the engine out the car? or is it okay in situ?

Is there any gotchas swapping out an electric interior for a manual one?

Dont particularly care about the electrics and may have found one in a preferred color which is manual

Had the p38 out for a long drive today. At one point in roadworks doing about 40mph I noticed a pretty worrying noise.

Sounded like a rubbing or scraping sound from the rear axle or something around there. Most noticeable when holding the throttle at cruise. Full over run or acceleration seemed to make it go away or at least become much less noticeable. At higher speeds I couldn't really hear it any more.

I also have a clonk noise when changing drive direction, eg shifting from reverse to drive, most noticeable at low speeds, which might be related?

Any ideas where I should be looking?

One of the P38's useful traits that helps justify me keeping it around is its towing capacity. I have a 3T twin axle car transporter that i use infrequently, which goes nicely behind the P38.

The last few times i've had it out however, towing it has been bloody awful. When unloaded, the trailer seems to transmit some sort of vibration or oscillation into the car, which causes a vertical "jiggling" at a frequency which feels like someones shaking my internal organs to bits. Did 100miles in it on satruday, 80 of those unloaded and i was feeling verging on ill by the time i stopped after 40miles. I was having to sit forwards off the seat back to minimise the vibration. Road surface certainly played a role, with one section of road being incredibly bad, but the vibrations were there the whole time.

Now, i know the trailer hitch itself has some wear in it. The draw tube wiggles up and down inside its bore. I've been meaning to buy a new hitch for a while, but its expensive and hard to justify for something used so infrequently. The part i'm trying to figure out though is why its changed. The draw tube has always had this play in it for as long as i've had the trailer, but its never been that bad to tow with.

In the past, the hitch slack seemed to causes the trailer to sort of "kick" the back of the car when the trailer hit a bump or similar. Uncomfortable, loud and annoying, but not continuous. It would also get unsettled over uneven road and the hitch would kinda rattle and bang around, but again, it would only happen over the bit of rough road, not continuously for 40miles!

With the trailer loaded with a car it gets MUCH better, though its still not the most pleasant thing to tow, and it seems to like "snaking", not violently, but enough to mean that your sat there on red alert the whole time.

Anyway, enough waffling, i'm trying to figure out if ALL of this issue is with the trailer itself, or if the vehicle could be playing a part? Perhaps tired shocks or wear in bushes or something? Anyone experienced anything similar?

Not surprising the recent weather might have caused some water ingress, but i'd quite like to fix it before it turns into a hole in the floor.

I've noticed the car was generally "damp" recently, but it doesnt get used frequently so i had just put it down to usual condensation etc. However i'd noticed it was really steamed up after a drive last week, and it didnt clear even sitting with the windows open all day in the sun.... Happened to reach into the front passenger footwell to grab some gloves when i went to the dump the other day and realised the gloves were soaking, as was the carpet...

So, anyone got a list of the likely culprits? It seemed most wet right on the front left corner near the kickplate.

The old barge has sprung a leak from the engine oil cooler. Its been weepy for a while so been on borrowed time, but today i realised there was oil bloody everywhere and a constant drip drip drip from the pipe into the cooler.

I've ordered a new cooler and pipe kit from Maltings Offroad, but i'm wondering a) how exactly to get into it, and b) if i should change anything else while in there... I've been considering swapping out the AC condenser too,

I've had the main rad out before and the oil coolers dont seem to be accessible from that side, so i'm assuming i need to go in the front and remove the AC condenser to get at them?

Looking at the pipework around there, the PAS hoses also dont look great, so i will price those up too. Any tips or pointers or "defo change X while your in there" jobs?

Cheers
Kev

Hey guys,

Been having a bit of a think/restructure of my automotive fleet and would appreciate some thoughts.

I had a 90 project in the garage that i've not touched for 6 years. I decided to get shot of it, as it really doesnt fit with having a family now. So thats gone barring some bits and pieces i need to shift. My thinking was that the P38 fits much better as a "family 4x4" than the 90 does. I also had a track car which has sat unloved on the drive since the kids arrived 4 years ago, so i parted that out and got shot of that. I've ended up with a TT convertible (swapped it for another car i ended up with), had planned to give it a quick tidy up and smoke around in it for the summer months, but ofcourse these things always take longer than you plan, so its currently sat with no timing belt waiting for some nice weather to finish it. My other cars are an A4 i've had for years, and a Nissan LEAF which fits the "modern, reliable, keep the wife happy" box. The A4 needs to come off the road for some TLC, but i can use the TT while i do that.

So back to the P38. Its not the cleanest example, but i've done various bits on it over the years to keep it going. However it feels like jobs are mounting up, and its reaching that point where it needs a massive overhaul. I'll try to give a brief summary....

Starting in the engine bay, its had a new radiator, and a new brake accumulator, so thats good. Its also had a sprinkling of new coolant hoses and new LPG injectors and petrol injectors. However the engine itself is a sieve. It leaks coolant from the front timing case, inlet manifold, various hose fittings and the LPG vapouriser leaks from its central gasket. The PAS line is rusty and seeps fluid from the swaged joint. The engine oil cooler is also leaky. The engine also leaks oil from everywhere, front and rear oil seals, sump gasket etc etc.It also burns a bit of oil, a hard rev after starting it (when the cats are still cold) will get a nice cloud of blue smoke, and it fouls spark plug 8 quite badly... AC system worked until all the gas leaked from the ORings on the compressor, the condenser looks pretty wrecked though.

Underneath, i fitted new balljoints to the front axle, and its had the brake disks/pads/calipers done all round. I've also done the front shocks. But its needing bushes all round as it drives like a pig. It also has an appetite for axle end oil seals, presumably because the balljoints arent properly centred any more. It probably wants brake hoses, and the brake lines themselves have been replaced previously by a blind monkey, so while they work, they're a bit shonky. Rear axle i think has pinion issues, its a bit noisey on overrun, but hasnt really gotten any worse in the years i've had it. Air suspension all works as it should, Infact its one of the things thats worked perfectly since i bought the car. I did have to replace a height sensor but otherwise its sound.

Moving inside, the headliners knackered, but i've got a kit to sort it out. Various bits of trim are iffy but everything does work. Climate control knob is a bit finicky. Remote locking doesnt work which is infuriating especially after i spent money on the remote filter kit from the guys on here. Cruise control works fine after i replaced the hose. Grey leather is in reasonable nick, though i really fancy some Tan leather for it, have rage with myself that i didnt pick up the interior i saw at U Pull It some years ago.

Exterior is varied. The wife smashed the front bumper, so i got a new one nicely resprayed for it. The rear tailgate was rotten so again i got a nice one all painted up. The upper tailgate is a rusty mess though, and theres a horrible patch of rust at the rear of the roof panel where it meets the tailgate thats particularly worrying. Additionally, it originally had the light guards fitted, which have since been removed but have left holes (and broken off rivnuts) in the rear quarter panels. A couple of the doors could do with replacing, and a lot of the black trim really wants replaced and/or painted.

Theres probably more, but i figure you get the idea. And i'm kinda stuck. The engine clearly needs sorted. And it feels like one of those jobs that basiaclly ends up with a almost complete rebuild... By the time its out and you've got the sump and timing case off to sort those gaskets, you might as well pull the heads and sort those out... with the heads off and timing case off, it probably wants a new camshaft and associated parts... and then, once stripped to that point, do you reassemble the block and hope the liners dont move? Theres also the cylinder 8 issue... It could just be valve stem seals and thus fixed in the head rebuild, but if its piston/bore related then its highly likely at that point its needing liners and basically a complete rebuild. And that feels like a LOT of money to be pouring into an old car, even if i can do all the work myself... and i know once i start the job, i wont want to half-arse it back together with known faults... It also needs all the pipework sorted and a new oil cooler rad, stuff that can be awkward and expensive to source.

Mechanically, its not tooo bad, if i can get a spare set of radius arms i can get the bushes swapped out in my spare time and i can probably tidy up the brake lines (though i do hate working on those!). Rear axle i'll probably jsut ignore unless it gets worse, but it probably wants rear radius arm bushes and rear shocks.

The bodywork is a sticking point, i dont like working on body, and i feel tarting up the exteriors the last job that really should be done when all the other stuff is busted. But putting a lot of money into a rotten shell also makes no sense?!

I sometimes wonder, should i try to find a better one? But knowing these cars, the question is then, am i better with the one i know, rather than potentially buying into a whole host of new issues? If i do plan on keeping this one, then i need to start sorting stuff thats actually broken, rather than just ignoring it. But its difficult to figure out what to do... Thoughts much appreciated!

The engine in the old bus isnt the healthiest. It leaks every fluid imaginable, but runs acceptably well that it just sort of gets ignored and soldiers on.

Its always started missing a few cylinders, but they all seem to come alive after a few seconds and a bit of RPM.

It leaks coolant from various places, and i so slightly suspect a headgasket issue as it seems to pressurise the hoses pretty quickly (and they often stay pressurised) but it doesnt over heat and will do hundreds of miles without issue. Its always been like that since i've had it. Again, works well enough that i dont want to start fiddling.

Cylinder 8 also always fouls its spark plugs, they end up crusted with oily deposits.

So thats the background. Last week i was taking an old car to the scrap man, so she was pulling probably 2 tonnes of trailer. It felt a bit flat, but i wasnt really beating on it and just taking it easy trundling up the duallie at 50. However once i got to the yard (about 5 miles away) it was clear it was idling dog rough. RPMs were down below 500, and it sounded like crap. Revving it, it sounded like an old aircooled beetle. Clearly some cylinders not happy.

Got offloaded and drove home and it was clearly unhappy, missfiring badly at low rpm pulling away and down on power. I knew i had some spark plugs on the shelf so i decided to change them. Unfortunately what i actually had was 3 new plugs, and 5 used ones (no idea!). So i installed the new plugs in cylinders 8, 6 and 4, figuring it might be the fouled plug that was causing issues, and gave it a try. Still missfiring as bad as ever so i gave up and ordered 5 new plugs.

Plugs came today, so i swapped the remaining 5 out, and went for a test drive... And its fixed. Hurray? I dont know. The plugs that came out looked perfectly serviceable, so currently i have no idea wether its just a coincidence or the problem is actually sorted. I guess some more miles needed to tell.

However, i noticed that theres vast differences between the plugs in terms of the deposits, so i took some photos:

Starting with bank 2, plugs 4 and 6 look ok i think? 8 is obviously fouled, but then 2 is very strange, pale and minimal deposits.
Moving to bank 1, plugs 1 and 3 have odd orange coloration to their ceramic insulators, perhaps a touch rich? 1 also has weird deposits or maybe corrosion around the base of the plug thread? 5 is almost normal? 7 looks lean/hot, perhaps a bit like 2 from the other bank.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. None of these plugs look bad enough to cause a missfire, with the exception of 8, but swapping that out didnt fix it. The varying plug condition also makes me wonder whats going on here.