Sorry to regress, I've just read the last page of this thread.

Been involved in ongoing discussions (er arguments) about EVs and LPG since before Xmas on PistonHeads. An overview of the way discussion has gone is: Someone started a thread 'EVs does everyone think they are amazing', to which I answered 'No ' and went on to discuss lack of range / long charge time / lack of chargers / cost of the vehicles / battery degradation / problems with electrical infrastructure if EV numbers increase dramatically / etc... which didn't go down very well on the pro EV thread. One poster then started an off-shoot voting thread 'Would you wait 45 minutes to fill up if you could fill up for free' but didn't mention the 45 minutes fillup would be necessary every time since this would be charging an EV. I told them I convert vehicles to LPG which prompted one guy to start the thread 'Five reasons you should never consider an LPG conversion', which kind of backfired on him when I mentioned that he had run LPG converted vehicles for 20 years, some people that I've helped on LPGforum and a guy who's Honda I recently converted joined the thread lol. There's also a '690 miles in an EV' thread, I stirred the wasps nest there by saying for any ice car there wouldn't have been a thread because any ice car could do 690 miles with none of the concerns of having to route around EV charging points etc.

It's mostly the same people over all the EV threads, and 'discussion' has been a bit silly, stale and boring for quite a while now (bit like the infamous LPGforum UKLPG thread) but I keep up with them, especially the 'Five reasons' thread.. I think that thread's proving to have more of a positive effect on how people consider LPG conversions than the negative effect that 'Tinrobot' intended. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1708145&i=0

Pistonheads wouldn't allow me to use LPGC as screen-name so I'm SimonYorkshire on PH.

Edit, forgot to mention... One guy 'Maxtorque' reckons he's an engineer who was involved with the development of factory conversion LPG systems but has now seen the light and hypes EVs, predicts the imminent phasing out of ice engines, predicts easy upgrades to infrastructure would allow the population to switch to EVs. I'm fairly sure that about 10 years ago I fixed an LPG system for someone called Max who reckoned to be an engineer previously involved in development of factory LPG systems, I asked if that was him but he ignored my question.

Yes, LPGC (rightly or wrongly) there probably is quite a lot of prejudice against LPG. In my own case I encountered a 4.6 P38 in a garage about 12 years ago with an exploded Cylinder Head - and the owner was facing a bill of £5K to fix it (and the garage was independent); It was a mess.... The mechanic told me the LPG system had been "badly fitted" and that is probably the basis of the bad reputation, at least as far as I am concerned.

Yes, all the EV 'spin' is misleading; I like to explain to those interested that you have to carry the weight of the batteries with you all the time too... (plus the big problem with infrastructure of course)

If it were not for a couple of greedy b@st@rds it could all have been different: http://mostdeliberateswindle.com/
Instead we went with Diesel of course .....(and I had better stop there too !)

I'm tempted to wade in with the comment that less than 200 miles range and no EV recharging points would leave me stuck at least three times a week, which is why it'll take a lot to replace my clunky old £750 banger on LPG, but then I'd have to create a P*st*nh**ds account.

I personally wouldn't touch a Disco3 with a barge pole after my boss had one from new that needed new diffs, new engine, new aircon pipes within 5 years. I know that's a sample of one, but holy crap it cost him twice over. It was a 2.5 diesel and completely underpowered.

As Morat tries tro steer the thread back on topic but continuing with the EV argument. I've been on Pistonheads for years and it used to be for people like us, people that weren't afraid to get their hands dirty, drove real cars and had an interest in real cars (blimey, it started off as a TVR owners forum and if you run a TVR you've no option but to get your hands dirty on a regular basis). These days there's people on there discussing how wonderful their EV is, how wonderful their diesel is, how much their PCP is costing them and wouldn't know a spanner if one leapt out and slapped them in the face. How can an EV (or diesel for that matter) have any appeal at all to someone who is into cars? When they produce an EV that can tow a 3.5 tonne trailer and do 1500 miles in 25 hours, then I might consider that they have come of age.

One other point, I know someone who very briefly had a BMW i8. Considering most of his cars usually do mid teens in mpg, I queried why he had bought it. It had to be done was the reply but after having it 2 days he was trying to find someone that would take it off his hands. Part of the fun of driving something with a bit of grunt is the noise it makes (think C63 AMG Merc, Aston Martin Vantage, just about anything expensive and Italian, etc) and with the i8 running around 350 bhp it should have the soundtrack to go with it. The i8 is so quiet that you can programme the stereo to give you engine noises (and select what car you want it to sound like) but what you can't do is open the windows and floor it through a tunnel to give everyone else the benefit.......

There's a lot more thought required before EVs are useful for any use case outside short urban commutes. I'm sure they make sense in London or Birmingham where you'll be moving at 4mph and there is significant electrical capacity at both ends of the journey and the air is so foul it is actually illegal. Having said that, the better solution is a bicycle. If you want clean and green you need to consider the manufacturing costs in ecological terms and 10Kg of bike beats 800Kg of EV even if it's made of unobtanium.
If you're travelling a long distance, or away from population centres things just don't stack up. It's even worse if you happen to work at a rural visitor attraction and your visitors nearly all arrive by car. It won't be long before we have to dig up the car park and install 500 charging points. Who is going to pay for that? How on earth will we get that sort of capacity?

Morat wrote:

How on earth will we get that sort of capacity?

---

Easy peasy- just install a kin huge diesel generator

And run it on the distilled tears of Scouse virgins!

Won't run for long then......

Morat wrote:

There's a lot more thought required before EVs are useful for any use case outside short urban commutes.....

Agreed ! Plus we don't know the price of electricity in the future... (and call me cynical but I strongly suspect they will impose charging tariffs on EVs and "Road Tax". I am not personally going to buy a new car just to avoid "Road Tax" - and not just because they don't use it to mend the roads either).

(Unfortunately) I have had the 'pleasure' to speak with some Politicians (National and Local) about EV's and they are basically clueless.....
about virtually all technology as far as I could see (and don't get me started on Autonomously-Driving Cars either)

Presumably there is also a market for £250K All-Electric RRs or £100k+ Hybrid RRs etc too but it is not a Mass Market....

I had a short discussion with someone about electric tractors the other day. He was raving about the low down torque being perfect for the job. I asked him what they would do about refuelling. He went a bit quiet.
I'd have to do some clever sums but I suspect you'd need a sodding great battery to power a tractor for a full day's work.

davew wrote:

and don't get me started on Autonomously-Driving Cars either

My view on these things is they may well be able to avoid other vehicles but how about the other way round? It could be quite entertaining to give one a little tap on a rear corner and spin it off the road......

Getting back on topic, here's an ad full of contradictions https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-1996-Rare-BMW-Engine/142679255820. It's finished in Epson Green with grey leather interior but the cream leather interior is immaculate. The air suspension works perfectly (but you can't alter the height) and the heating is in perfect working order but does have the book symbol on it at times......

Not bad but I have to say the line:

" The car has recently had the BECM refurbished and there are no P38 Gremlins present in either the electrics or the engine "

made me laugh !

.

How much????? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-4-6-V8-Limited-Edition-HSE-5dr-INVESTMENT-VEHICLE/292199257630

That green diesel actually looks not too bad for the money. Pop along with an EAS cable and sort its shit out, and you've got a decent motor. Well, once you've put proper wheels on ;-)

• And the funniest words there (other than the £13K price and 'Investment Vehicle') are probably:

" Luckily this model has Fully Functioning Air Suspension which is rare for this age. We've had the BCM (body control module) update completed and a New Key by a Land Rover Specialist in January 2017 with invoice. " YIPPEE !

They forgot to add "has the special fade-to-grey plastic grille option" though..

Genuine question; What is it about a 'Limited Edition' that makes them think it is so valuable; Contrasting Piping on the seats maybe ??

Looks like the Overpriced P38 Spotters Club is having a really good week.

£10,000 for this admittedly smart 30 th anniversary edition https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-30th-Anniversary-Ltd-edition/232656731892 with 120,000 miles up. Theoretically you could say the interior looks good but the combination of dark green leather with cream piping and cream plastic has rather too much resemblance to the aftermath of an unfortunate late night post pub curry choice for any normally non colour blind person to appreciate.

Clive

Ah, so some piping, plastic, truly ancient ICE and some woodwork-lesson picnic tables account for the extra £5+K then ?....
Fair enough...... but I wonder how long these particular beasties will be on sale for then ?

Side note; When I searched on e-bay for P38 3oth Anniversary Edition etc a bunch of Star Wars stuff came up.....
and that might actually be an 'investment' (and you can keep it in a cupboard, too)

davew wrote:

They forgot to add "has the special fade-to-grey plastic grille option" though..

Genuine question; What is it about a 'Limited Edition' that makes them think it is so valuable; Contrasting Piping on the seats maybe ??

I showed it to my missus and her comment was that it looks identical to the SE sitting on the driveway (which I really must do something with). Same colour, same wheels, Lightstone interior where mine is grey but other than that, the only real difference is mine doesn't have the faded grey grille. I'm not even sure it is a Limited Edition of any sort anyway, looks like a bog standard '98 HSE to me.