Marty and I had a textathon last night to work out whether it would be a good idea to have a "Camp" again, but with the aim of replacing Radius Arm Bushes on our P38s.
Marty is happy to host us at his workshop again, which is very generous and is a better option than my house because he has a press (essential) and some air tools (probably very useful).

The proposal would be to find a date in March/April when we could do a two day weekend and plan to get everyone's bushes changed by Sunday afternoon. Whether that would be done as an end to end job or a production line like the Headliners we can discuss later.

We reckon on everyone buying and bringing their own parts, including new bolts etc so that we don't have any emergency parts runs on a Sunday! And pooling whatever tools and expertise we can to make the process as slick as possible. Hopefully the hopeless folks like me will learn some skills too.

I guess the first question is: Who would be interested in changing their Radius Arm Bushes?
and the second one: Exactly what parts and tools do we need to achieve this?

As you know, I'm not a mechanic so I'm really just throwing this out to the experts while offering to help, cook and gofer in exchange for getting my bushes changed with everyone elses. I'm keen to get underneath and wield an airgun though, that sounds like fun :)
As I understand it, the struggle is taking the arms off rather than putting it all back together so we should be able to avoid having lots of Range Rovers in bits on the Sunday afternoon :)

So what do you guys think? Is anyone interested?

Yup. I've got poly bushes on the front at the moment but I've been considering changing (even though they still seem OK). Mine have been off before so I know they will come off again too so should be simple. Since I moved house I've discovered an indie in the next village (RJ Landrovers) and was considering asking if they had the press and kit for changing them so I could take them off and drop them in there but if a camp is being planned I'd prefer to get stuck in and do it myself. More fun too.....

This is well timed! Depending on the dates and what's going on at home I'd like to come along.

I've picked up a full set of suspension/steering arms to do a full refresh. I've got front and rear radius arms, panhard rods and a the steering drag link. The guy I got them from has also loaned me a home made tool for the radius arm bushes. It's a thick steel plate with a circular hole with slope sides cut in to it. He says it worked great when he did his - might help to speed the process along.

I've also got new ball joints for the front hubs.

I have just replaced my radius arm bushes with OEM. You can't just press them in. You need the special tool with tapered sides that compress the bush as RutlandRover described. Biggest problem I had was the bolts. Mine were rusted completely solid and I had to cut them all out with a hacksaw. You could probably just press the old bushes out though. I burnt mine out as I didn't have a press at the time.
Panhard rod bushes are dead easy. I just used a big vice.

Well, I'm sorry we're too late for Dave3d, but it looks like we've got three to go at already. I don't know if Marty needs any done himself...

Marty has the tools needed for the radius arm bushes :)

Morat wrote:

and the second one: Exactly what parts and tools do we need to achieve this?

I've started a list of the parts I'd need to replace all the bushes, joints, nuts and bolts for the suspension and steering here:

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AojTrWb43XFxg5lmuUy2czXdi4tyCQ

Struggling to find the track rod and drag link in LR Cat though.

Also struggling to find dimensions for a couple of the bolts - the bolts are much cheaper if you shop for the bolts using the dimensions rather than the LR part numbers you can find them much cheaper.

The exception might be ANR1187/ANR6920. This is the front bolt for the rear radius arm. It's M16 but I can't find the length. Images show it has a slight step in the shank. I've no idea if this step is important if a regular M16 x whatever bolt would be OK.

The file is editable if anyone finds any superceded parts I've missed - or if you can find the dimensions it's missing!

I'll have a look through my back-ups tomorrow and see if my complete list of all the suspension replacement parts has survived. Excel format file so easy to handle if it has. Digging the numbers out of the ordered parts lists & P38 costs file might be possible if I can't find the originals.

I'd definitely agree on new bolts all round. Cutting and ripping out if things don't wan't to go is a major time saver. Especially on the front. Best to make sure you have a suitable cutter to hand. I used a 1 mm thick disk in an angle grinder but felt less than safe lying under the car. Garage compressor hasn't got the oomph to run an air saw and my sabre saw is too long and cumbersome. I paid the Land Rover Bolt Tax as life was too short for futzing around looking for decent quality equivalents to save maybe £60, if that.

Clive

(Just two special drain plug / oil union thingies to draw and make for Mr Classic BMW Racer prep guy then I can get back to P38 stuff. What I said last week. Then a box-full appeared on Friday)

Can't find my original complete suspension refurb parts list but looks like I've got everything in the "You've spent HOW much (this year)!" spreadsheet files. I can pull the relevant sections out and transfer to another spreadsheet if thats any good to folk. Will need bit of formatting to make a good "order this" list tho' as part numbers and descriptions are mixed in single cells and number order is a bit spasmodic.

Clive

That would be really helpful! thank you :)

and I've just noticed Sloth's post saying that Marty has the correct tools. Wow -- I didn't realise. Awesome :)

Sloth said that Marty has the correct tool already :)

I'll ask my mate if he's OK with me holding on to the tool for that long.

The message he sent me when he agreed to lend it to me was "I'll need this back. Hire is one pint but the deposit against loss or damage is £10000000000, it's effectively priceless and the job is 100% impossible without it" :P

I've updated my Excel parts list for the track rod and drag link using part numbers from Island 4x4. I can only find a rod end for one end of the drag link and track rod, not the other ends. I'm wondering if the other end each isn't replaceable as a separate item.

I've also reorganised it to be easier to read.

I'm thinking we might need quite a few sets of Axle Stands too!
I've got 2x2 ton Draper ones.
I guess we'd ideally need 4 per Rover if we're dropping both axles at once. Or an old Disco to use as a stand :)

I've got 2x 3T stands and 4x (I think) 2T stands.

I've got two jacks too. A 3T that's great for lifting the car and a 2T that doesn't really go high enough to lift the car off the ground but is OK for supporting detached parts.

I've been pricing up bushes and bolts at Bearmach - my Land Rover Club has a 10% discount code there.

Wondering if a group buy might be worthwhile. Most of the bushes are Bearmach branded but they have genuine LR ones available for the front radius arms. Personally, I'm OK with going Bearmach for the ones that are easy to get to and don't require special tools but plan on going genuine for the front radius arms.

They don't have all of the bolts though - some of those would need sourcing elsewhere.

Re Axle Stands

The four new 6 ton ratchet style, Wolf branded ones I bought cheaply off E-Bay (about £25 a pair) do a good job of putting a P38 up at an adequate working height when placed under the chassis. Model T46001, extension range from 16" to 25" nominal. Used two under the chassis at about half extension on my drive when using my monster high rise ramps for the initial lift. But thats working on one end at time. I got the rubber yoke caps from SGS to save paint damage. Bit of a stretch but they went on with suitable verbal encouragement. Cost nearly as much as one pair of stands tho' which seemed bit off. But the stands were cheap.

Two stands under the chassis, other two under the axle made a very solid support. Definitely not going anywhere un-planned. Which is the way I like things if my precious hide is going underneath two solid tons worth of vehicle!

Rutland Rover
Yup thats right. Only one end of the track rod is replaceable. Standard thread shaft on that one whilst the other is held in with radial (ring) stakes. I don't really see why the thread end is listed separately. Surely no one replaces just one end. I thought the Lemfoder track rod complete was a very acceptable price anyway.

Dinna fash yersel about the special bush compression thingy. Now I've got the dimensions sorted out I can probably make one in less time than it takes to find some material, swop the right boring tool into a QC holder and swivel the lathe topside over to the right angle!

Clive603 wrote:

Re Axle Stands

The four new 6 ton ratchet style, Wolf branded ones I bought cheaply off E-Bay (about £25 a pair) do a good job of putting a P38 up at an adequate working height when placed under the chassis. Model T46001, extension range from 16" to 25" nominal. Used two under the chassis at about half extension on my drive when using my monster high rise ramps for the initial lift. But thats working on one end at time. I got the rubber yoke caps from SGS to save paint damage. Bit of a stretch but they went on with suitable verbal encouragement. Cost nearly as much as one pair of stands tho' which seemed bit off. But the stands were cheap.

Two stands under the chassis, other two under the axle made a very solid support. Definitely not going anywhere un-planned. Which is the way I like things if my precious hide is going underneath two solid tons worth of vehicle!

Rutland Rover
Yup thats right. Only one end of the track rod is replaceable. Standard thread shaft on that one whilst the other is held in with radial (ring) stakes. I don't really see why the thread end is listed separately. Surely no one replaces just one end. I thought the Lemfoder track rod complete was a very acceptable price anyway.

Dinna fash yersel about the special bush compression thingy. Now I've got the dimensions sorted out I can probably make one in less time than it takes to find some material, swop the right boring tool into a QC holder and swivel the lathe topside over to the right angle!

The downside with the Lemforder ones is the nuts don't come with it, whereas they do with others (though not all of them use the same thread as the original ones either)

Clive603 wrote:

Dinna fash yersel

Would you like a doctor? :P

To replace the drag link and track rod with Lemforder parts would be £105.10 more than using the Bearmach/aftermarket parts. That's quite a jump!

Also, bolts are seem to be rather expensive. Rear radius arms have three bolts each. Prices for each are £11.62, £10.29 and £21.60!

I'm going to take a good look at the bolts on mine before committing to order the full set of bolts.

As I've priced them up, replacing front and rear bushes, nuts and bolts (without track rod/drag link) comes to £294.69 including 10% discount on the Bearmach parts. That's using genuine LR front radius arm bushes and Bearmach for the rest. Bolts are mostly genuine LR as that's all that's available.

RutlandRover

Agree that Lemfoder is significantly more expensive. Be unsurprised if you spend a third (or even more) less than me on a full suspension refurb. Probably not notice the difference, if any, in performance too.

Clive

Performance? Probably not. But longevity? The Lemforder stuff will last, the other stuff? Who knows, but i've never had much luck with any aftermarket suspension bits. they manage a year or two, whereas the original bits managed 15 years or more.

Its certainly a tempting thing to do, i'm probably quite far away though, where does marty reside?

Swindon, where are you? :)

I've used Lemforder since I realised they were the OEM manufacturer for BMW bits when I was keeping E30s on the road.

Fife.... only 7 hours and 413miles each way haha!