So, I gave E85 a try in my GEMS to see if it would run on it as well as Nigel's Thor does. Managed to find LPG round here on Saturday so filed the LPG tank. That would give me 200+ miles range on that. Had a little normal E10 fuel in the tank (range was being shown as just over the 50 mile threshold when it stops telling you how much you have) so bunged 40 litres of E10 in it so the gauge was showing half full. Ran on LPG down to Dover, off the ferry at Calais and straight into the Total station just outside the docks. Refilled the LPG tank at 0.99 Euros (so roughly 82p, more expensive than some stations here but cheaper than the MFG operated station in Dover at 90ppl) and also put 40 litres of E85 in at 0.89 Euro per litre (compared with 2.10 Euro, or around £1.75 for E10) taking it up to just over 3/4 of a tank, which probably caused my fuel gauge to suffer a nosebleed as it has never been that high in the 12 years I've owned the car. Reset the trip computer, plugged in the Nanocom, reset the adaptive values, set it to monitor the lambda sensors and set off.
Initially I would be running on the E10 that was in the pipes, filter and fuel rail so nothing changed. Then as, presumably, the E85 got there, it didn't feel quite as smooth, almost as if there was a slight misfire. Once on the motorway it ran as expected and was smooth cruising at 70 mph, lambdas both switching even though the short term trims were always going positive showing it needed more fuel than on E10 which is only to be expected. Under normal acceleration it was fine but under light acceleration it still felt like it was misfiring and holding back slightly. I had 170 miles to do before heading back and during this time it seemed fine with the trip showing 16mpg. Can't really compare this as I've run on petrol so rarely I don't know what it reads on petrol but it would seem to compare with Nigel's findings of a drop to 14mpg when on 100% E85. Other than the feeling of a slight misfire under light acceleration, it ran normally, no loss of power, temperature staying normal (if not a couple of degrees lower than normal), idle smooth and starting normal.
Arrived where I needed to be and the fuel gauge was showing just under half a tank. Set off to head back to Calais for the return journey and it was just the same, smooth when cruising but with the feeling of a slight misfire under light acceleration. About halfway through the return journey, I noticed an odd smell but couldn't work out what it was or if it was from me, another vehicle travelling in front of me (like when you can smell the exhaust from a diesel being run on paraffin or used chip oil) or from an industrial plant I had just driven past. Couldn't really put my finger on what the smell was either. Figured it must be from another vehicle as I hadn't noticed it on that same stretch of road on the way down particularly when it seemed to disappear only to reappear later. By this time I had reached the A26 so there was nothing else around me, no traffic, no industry, just a clear road and open fields so the smell must be coming from the car. Initially thought it could be the cats overheating but discounted that as it was still running at normal temperature but decided to err on the safe side and switched over to LPG and ran on that for the rest of the way back to Calais. By this time the fuel gauge was showing down to 1/4 tank so roughly 25 litres left meaning I wouldn't quite have managed the whole 340 mile round trip on the one tankful but still a decent range between refuels with another 210-220 on a tank of LPG. Topped up the LPG tank again at Calais sand ran on that for the rest of the return journey.
Thinking about it later, although the engine coolant temperature was normal, the conversions that can be fitted to allow running on E85, advances the ignition timing so it would have been retarded for the fuel. Retarded ignition would result (I think) in higher exhaust temperatures so it could well have been the cats complaining that they were getting too hot. Nigel's car still has the original huge LR cats on it whereas I have much smaller aftermarket ones which again might be relevant. Why it ran fine for the first 250 miles or so before it started to generate a smell I can't explain. Or, it wasn't the car at all but was from something outside and I switched over to LPG at the point I would have lost it anyway, who knows?
I've since noticed (after putting another 40 litres of petrol in it) that it doesn't run quite as smoothly on petrol as on LPG anyway. I'd never really taken that much notice as I run on petrol so rarely and for such short distances I don't have a benchmark to compare. It doesn't have the feeling of a misfire, and accelerates normally but doesn't idle as smoothly. It's unlikely to be ignition related as LPG needs a better spark than petrol and it runs fine on that (plugs are only 6k miles old too) although due to lack of use, it's quite possible the petrol injectors are gummed up and need a clean which would explain the slight roughness under acceleration.
So the conclusion is that for Nigel, who's P38 is now on French plates so an LPG conversion isn't viable as to pass the CT, the French MoT, the LPG system needs to be installed using a Government approved installer using a Government approved system for the car (if there even is one for the P38). For his use it might be worth fitting the £800 E85 conversion so the economy on E85 will be back up to, or better than, E10 levels which really will make it cheap to run. For me, is it worth completely overhauling the petrol system when it gets hardly any use and LPG is widely available in Europe (even though it has been withdrawn from some of the French motorway services, there's still plenty of places to fill up) at the same price or, with the exception of France, cheaper than here? If I get really bored or have another reason to take the injectors out, it might be worth getting them cleaned but I can't honestly see it is worth it. I could live with the misfire if I was really stuck but the odd smell was what concerned me more. Was it coming from the car and my cats were about to set fire to the underside of the car or was it outside and would have stopped at the point I switched to LPG anyway? But, an interesting experiment nonetheless.
Peterborough, Cambs
- '93 Range Rover Classic 4.2 LSE, sold
- '97 Range Rover 4.0SE, in Oxford Blue with a sort of grey/blue leather interior sold as two is plenty.....
- '98 Ex-Greater Manchester Police motorway patrol car, Range Rover P38 4.0, in white with a not very recently cleaned cloth interior
- '96 4.6HSE Ascot because you never know when you might need a spare
- All running perfectly on LPG
- Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.