Chris

So thats the magic taper thingy that compresses the bush to fit the arm. Think I prefer my version, we shall see how well it works in due course.

$64,000 question is whether an aligner widget is needed to set compressing tube dead in line with the bore or whether its perfectly satisfactory to simply push the bush right through by 0.1" or a couple of mm then lightly tap the protruding part in place before finishing the installation.

For proper tool set you still need something to get the bushes out without damaging the bores in the radius arms.

Has that non return valve turned up yet?

Clive

Yup. Learned from bitter experience that first try with almost anything having push in bushes takes (lots) longer and is much harder than it ought to be! Panhard rods are easy peasy. Rest probably not.

Its not pressing the bushes out thats the issue. Its keeping things lined up for a straight true press thats hard. The arms are long, bent and heavy so holding them just so under a press takes bit of doing. Really the through bolt with "properly shaped" pusher and receiver tube assembly are a much better bet. If things are the right shape they align properly so you get a nice straight push so they come out relatively easily. Straight, dead straight is always the key.

Unfortunately the Laser 6505 Land Rover suspension bush tool omits the "properly shaped" but when it comes to P38 bushes. It also avoids the concept of "fits". With a list price of around £140 you'd have thought they could have at least supplied the right size force screw. Parts book says 12 mm bolt so you expect a 12 mm clearance hole in the bush. A 5/8 " - 16 mm Ø screw don't go through the 12 mm Ø bores in P38 bushes! Mine only cost me £100, outrageous really but figured it was almost worth it to save the effort of designing and making one. I mean the pros would get it right. Wouldn't they. Evidently not. Have had words, well E-Mails actually, with Laser about this. Initial flat out refusal to believe it didn't and couldn't work was slightly toned down given pictorial evidence and a PDF of the relevant parts book pages. Apparently Laser are talking to their suppliers! New labels without P38 on them I guess.

Clive

Aragon

In the middle of re-furbishing a spare set of front radius arms to go on mine. Maybe we could sort something with the ones that are coming off when I've finished. I paid £20 for a used pair so travelling any distance wrecks the economics.

Job delayed because the Laser Tools extraction & refitting tool set doesn't fit! Managed the extraction bit via my workshop press but not a good way to do things on your own. Those arms are heavy and hard to hold in alignment with the press Half way through making a proper set of tools for the job. All takes longer 'cos I decided to repaint the arms. Properly.

Bit scary when you look underneath to see how little there is holding the axles onto a couple of tons of truck! All the textbooks talk about how important it is to have things really rigidly fixed at tree chassis end for good handling. Practice seems to be a bit different.

Clive

Decided on oatmeal colour in the end. Agree its very close to standard despite the Martrim website showing a very much darker grey on my computer. Very fast delivery from Martrim so just a matter of waiting for weather, assistant & spare time to line up to do the job.

Clive

With no data available I guess best thing to do is to set up a comparison experiment to measure the outputs of both SAGEM and Bosch sensors under appropriate conditions.

Nice thing about having Arduino and similar processors around is that you can brute force things by taking comprehensive measurements and similarly brute force the conversions with a look up table.

Best to start with some on the road measurements of a good SAGEM MAF to keep things honest. Simultaneously recording plenum chamber depression would help.

Way I'd tackle things is to fix a complete intake system, including air filter and manifold to a suitably large airtight box. 50 to 100 litres should do it. Fit two decent size pipes to the intake of a Henry or other decently powerful vacuum cleaner. One goes to the box, the other goes to a relief valve thingy allowing the effective plenum chamber depression to be controlled. Valve open essentially no depression in the box and little air flow. Valve shut full depression and full air flow. Probably a plate with various holes in it and suitable close off caps would be easier to handle than a valve. Theoretically need around 1500 litres per minute / 25 litres per second of air to cover maximum demand with reasonable margin. Henry is specced for 42 litres per second so that should do.

Plot TPS output for full close to open and back throttle swings against MAF output for both types over a sensible range of relief valve settings. Compare relevant part of curves and calculate look up table. May need to incorporate a separate plenum chamber depression sensor into the look up table.

If the temperature compensation is going to be an issue I guess you could always butcher a fan heater to warm things up during testing.

Given smooth curves from both sensors it should be possible to get things to work OK. If the curves aren't smooth then there are probably flow issues around the sensor bodies requiring fiddle factors in the ECU to get a true representation of flow. So long as the conversion table for the Bosch gives same output a SAGEM under all conditions the ECU won't care.

Clive

Aragorn wrote:

I was trying to find someone who could provide the MAF translation table from the ECU. If we know the voltage vs airflow curve, it would be very possible to engineer a replacement using a common modern MAF sensor. Unfortunately i found nothing.

Something from the dark side covering this issue : http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/41999-info-mystery-bosch-maf.html

Dunno what idiot thought feeding a low range, high sensitivity, control / feedback signal as a DC voltage down best part of a yard of wire to an under-bonnet ECU was a good idea. But whoever it was deserves a good kick in the fork. Absolutely not the way to do it. If you must go DC current loop is the solid way. Better an AC frequency modulated system of some kind. There are some very elegant and inexpensive methods of implementing such on wheatstone bridge type sensors.

In principle its a simple data logging exercise of volts and rpm. In practice you'd need to know both mass airflow and velocity over the sensor to be sure you were comparing like with like. Which means a test bed and good deal of knowing WTHIGO. I imagine the cheapy crap aftermarket types are crap because the test bed side of things wasn't properly done. My experience is its easy to get sort of close some of the time on this type of measurement exercise (albeit in very different fields) but getting it dead right all the time is a whole n'other ball game. But I would say that as demonstrating the getting it right part after some semi-demented scientists handwaving had attracted managerial attention was what I used to get paid for.

I'd be very unsurprised to discover that a substantial improvement in mpg could be got if the MAF, ECU and Fueling / Ignition maps were properly re-engineered with a more sensible airflow sensor.

Clive

Art with shocking things is to get something really solid underneath so nothing bounces and plenty of hand speed on a heavy hammer for a really sharp rap. Thump away all day with big swings with too light a hitter and get nowhere. Although theoretically the energy is the same half of it seems to bounce back.

Those C shape extractors look the part but are very weak. That spindly screw tend to run ways from under the load. Once you have a bend on it its doing 3/8 of nothing at all. Hope you've left it under tension as overnight temperature changes might just let it pop out.

If I have to do mine a copy of the hydraulic Sykes Picavant tool : https://www.chrometrader.co.uk/sykes-pickavant-18771100-swivel-ball-joint-tool-d2-p38-c-w-press-frame-ram.html will get made tout de suite. Almost £600 drinking vouchers is a joke in bad taste. Especially as I already have a ram, well two actually. Probably nearly as effective to substitute a fat bolt for the ram and put an impact drive on it. I guess the thread will be something like 1 1/2" x 18 so that aint gonna bend!

Clive

Sooo glad I haven't got a sunroof aperture to worry about.

Are braces optional or a vital evidence that the gremlin toll has been paid so the evil critters don't interfere.

Clive

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I shall be getting the lightest grey that Martrim do.

Then I need some sensible weather to actually do the job. Assistance lined up too. Just hafta remember to charge up the digital-cam for factory fold over the edge pictures. Picture guide in the files on t'other place looks helpful too. Thought I'd seen a YouTube but darned if I can find it. Done motorcycle seats before, both factory and reshaped, the headliner material looks much more forgiving to handle although the glue clearly takes no prisoners. Guess the important "easy to forget" detail is arranging suitable support for the material so it lies flat whilst being carefully fed onto the backing board and stuck down. Plan A is to use my motorcycle lift as a walk round bench with the material draped round a suitably supported "broomstick". Bike lift is one of the fancy Souriou air - hydraulic ram ones as per Honda race teams et al and makes for a sweet adjustable bench.

Clive

Interesting. Mine is a model year 2000 HSE with black (Ash Grey) interior, no sunroof if that makes any difference. Far as I know all standard. Says Paint code 696, Trim U on the info panel.
Guess I'd better haunt the local car parks until I see another one to verify colours. Or get Martrim to send me one of their colour card packs.

Clive

Thanks for the information. hafta say that Oatmeal looks way too dark on my computer screen. But comparing colours via computer is less than reliable at the best of times.
Actual colour on mine is about as light a grey as you can get whilst still being grey.

Clive

Just rang Martrim to order a headliner kit and the guy I spoke to wasn't sure as what colour and type of headliner was needed as a direct replacement for standard.

If anyone can remember what you bought for Summer Camp I'd be grateful for details. Otherwise I'll have to send a sample.

Whist I'm getting stuff in are there any "known to break" trim fixings et al that should be bought. Or is it more sensible just to get a complete set?

Thanks

Clive

Mine lasted bit over about 2 years on fill before last. Turned out to be a small leak in the condenser.

Halfrauds did first fill immediately after I got the car, which only lasted a year. Lady from local National Aircon franchise has done the test'n fill thing for me since. Mobile service, comes round in van with all the bits and equipment. Pure serendipity, she was doing one for guy across the road as I came home from the shop so I asked if she could do mine whilst she was in the area. Cheaper than Halfrauds and obviously knew what she was doing. She reckons that Halfrauds underfill big systems. Could be right as the Halfrauds fill only lasted a year but her first try went a little over two. All good since changing the condenser.

Condenser change is pretty easy except for getting those aluminium connections undone. Bitch job from hell that is because the nuts deform when you heave on them and there is bugger all room for a spanner on the right. I needed 3 to get the angles of dangles. Refit was breeze tho' as only final tweak needed a spanner. Couldn't believe how easy it is to get the bumper off. Why aren't all cars done that way? Paid extra for a Hella condenser as it was supposed to be OEM and I didn't want to arse around with things that didn't line up or slot straight in. Some hope. Poxy thing didn't go in right and fixings didn't line up either. Cue nearly an hour pouncing around getting it just so.

Clive

Glad the non return valve worked OK. Don't feel quite so bada bout having 9 more in stock in a Britpart bag.

Clive

I lucked into a set of Land Rover original disks at £10 each a couple of years back. Wallet came out smoking and they went into store. Fitted last year with Mintex pads and the just work. Effective stopping, no noise, no squeals. Do a great job of convincing that the car is over braked as standard (unless you have that 3 ton trailer on the back I guess.)

When it comes to brakes I like the nice warm fuzzy feeling that the folk who make stuff know what they are doing you get when things just work. Which you don't get with EBC and all the other wunderkids on the block. Endless reports of squeals, noise, smell et al on simple "to the book" road car fitments says, to me, that they haven't a clue. Maybe race developed and good on track, but I still wonder.

Surprising how metallurgically sophisticated cast iron brake disks are too. For example http://foundrygate.com/upload/artigos/Cast%20iron%20brake%20discs%20-%20a%20brief%20history%20of%20their%20development%20and%20metallurgy.pdf , crappy print but readable.

Clive

Maximum in cylinder pressure is probably north of 170 psi with new seal and cylinder. Cut-out range is 138 - 152 psi.

Not gonna hold that back with your pinky!

If you've re-built the compressor so piston ring and cylinder are good check that the inlet valve is correctly installed and working properly. Its been known for folk to put the backing reed in wrong way round on this style of valve so pretty much no air gets in. Ooops! Not me but I know a mad who knew lots better and still did. Some good info here :- https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/checking-eas-compressor-and-diaphragm-valve.172555/ . Particularly the bit about valve O ring cross-section. Something you'd not normally think to check.

Clive

Electric impact driver isn't really suitable as general purpose electric screwdriver. Tends to snap the heads off unless you are very careful with the trigger! Combi drills with a torque setting ring are much safer

For vehicle use with sockets I'm impressed by the cheap mains electric ones. Got mine from Lidl for £50 (ish). Bulky but does the deed. First job was the "invisible" rear damper top bolts which came out without a burp. Thought something had sheared. Breaker bar didn't really want to know.

When I had some serious house improvements to do some years back I got Makita 18 Volt and 14 volt Combi drills at very attractive prices. Big boy for drilling, smaller one for screw driving. Much faster thanks swopping drill for driver bit and back again. The big 18 V ones tend to be heavy in the hand when screw driving. NiCAD so battery life issues but they have done me over a decade so can't grumble. In retrospect a 10 volt one for screw driving duties would have been just as good and much lighter. The impact driver companion to the 18 V drill fell into my hands at the right price, "free if you fix it". Pretty impressive in impact mode but you do need to let it rattle for a bit on tight bolts. Shifts wheel nuts in about 5 seconds. In contrast the Lidl electric one only needs about 2 or 3 rattles. Which I think is better.

Were I buying now the Screwfix offer of the latest Makita 18 V Combi Drill / Impact driver pair for £250 seems good value for trade rated brand name tool. Impact driver goes to 140 Nm, 100 ft lb so will handle most things with the hex to square drive adapter. Lotta folks reckon the Erbauer ones are decent at under half the price. Know of one builder guy who just buys a new set every year as being good enough and keeps the old ones as spare. Name brands tend to get nicked! Says they aren't as reliable as the name brands but Screwfix are good at exchanging broken ones in the 2 year warranty period.

Clive

PS My local Lidl have a cordless screwdriver for £20.00 listed next Thursday offers. Looks the bees thingies for putting kitchen cabinets together. Only 5 Nm max output so not really up to major work.

Little better from LRDirect. £76 (ish) each for BritPart. VAT included. Worrying to note that some suppliers charge more for BritPart than others do for OEM.

Sort of thing that makes me contemplate learning metal spinning to make the basic shape out of light alloy sheet. Pressing the raised bit in the middle after making the basic horse-shoe cut out should be easy enough with improvised tooling. Or just use a separate part held by glue and self piercing rivets. That said if you have access to commercial press facilities a light alloy functional substitute should be easy enough to do. Tooling needs aren't very sophisticated. Not going to polish after all so who ares about a few stretch marks.

Clive

If all 3 pumps are the same then why the different part numbers? I've had vehicles through my hands which certainly did have heftier pumps for the rear screen. Which seems logical.

Got a packet of 10 non return valves with proper Range Rover part numbers, but in a blue BritPart bag. Certainly heftier in the valve section than the motor factor generics we get here. Drop me your address and I'll pop one in the post.
Came from LR Direct as they were the only folk showing stock at the time. Only in 10's tho'. So they got the order for everything I wanted that time and I got a stash of non return valves.

Clive

PS Idiot spell check changed Range Rover to range number!

Could also be the one way valve. If that has gone pump may not run long enough to fill the pipe and get water up onto the rear screen.

I'm told that the rear screen pump has more Oomph than a standard screen wash pump. Presumably because of the long pipe and greater lift.

Clive