Interesting reading https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/giving-the-right-advice/ its quite clear that advisories are supposed to refer to "items that any items which are near to, but which have not yet reached the point of test failure". Some of the tester comments beneath are, um, illuminating.

Flaking paint round the back of the chassis seems to be a standard fit on the later P38s by now. But has anyone heard of a ordinary road use one failing due to corrosion actually eating through vital things. I've peered under some pretty ropey old ones and no sign of structural issues. Minor brackets well past their best yes but not visible chassis & suspension parts.

I've got a similar stack on mine which I put up with for walk round the corner convenience.

Clive

Of course the thing about a P38 is you have the service schedule, the 100,000 mile fixit list, the 150,000 mile fixit list (engine really) and the 200,000 mile fixit list then, basically, repeat. If you are doing the miles fixit on schedules rather than when it needs attention is affordable compared to paying depreciation on an equivalent newer, much lower mileage, vehicle with reasonable prognosis for 100,000 miles without £££ worth of faults.

Deja Vue all over again as I've just suffered three quarters of an hour on the dog'n bone with her ladyship making the right noises over significant L322 TD6 content. "Roo-Roo is expensive to run but I've looked at ............. hate them all" record with stuck needle. I think I've finally got it across to her that now she has spent the big bucks on front suspension she only has to save up for the back end and gearbox for it to be good for another 100,000. Which will be cheaper than depreciation.

Wimmin. Told her to get a P38 and put it on LPG but no "I don't like the P38 and I've researched the TD6. It's ideal for me. Love Roo-Roo to bits.".

Riiight so thirsty, overweight, underpowered with a complex weak suspension, incomprehensible electrics and grenade gearbox is good.

The more I have to do with modern cars the more I realise just how good a P38 fundamentally is.

Clive

North of 200,000 miles tho'. Would make me go Hmmn due to potential of other important bits getting towards EoL.

Even on my puny 4,000 miles a year. Grumpy ole guys don't get out much!

Clive

Problem with polybushes is that they basically don't cope with roll or its asymmetrical cousins twist and skew.

P38 has pure leading and trailing link suspension with solid axles. Calling the front links radius arms is just a different name.

Consider replacing all the bushes with solid pins in metal bearings. Suspension will go up and down OK but it can't roll, twist or skew without staring things. Not even with rose joints at the arm to body connection. The rubber bushes provide the flexibility to allow such movement. The long links mean that the axles have to divine their connection to the car at considerable distance but do allow the body to float along fairly independently relative to axles and minimise the twisting movements in the bushes. The long, rubber bushed links means the inherent transverse location between car and axles is very poor. Hence the Panhard Rod links front and back which tie the axles to the car from side to side.

Panhard Rod links tie things together side to side pretty well but the geometry is inherently infelicitous and pure rotation at the bush is impossible. The longer the link the less the angles involved but either the pin has to shift away from central within the bush or the rod itself needs to distort. Polybushes do have tiny bit of inherent flexibility but its far less than rubber. Only reason you can get away with them is the sheer length of the arms which minimise the the angles involved. It doesn't begin to work as designed but at least the bushes don't tear out in nothing flat. At the front the Panhard rod ones are most seriously overloaded and will fail first. I'd be unsurprised to discover that the bushes actually wear sloppy quite quickly so things can wobble around enough to cope with geometric variations but not so much that the steering can't cope. Behaviour of the compress to fit axle front mounting bushes is interesting as it stops the sort of horrid front end behaviour associated with old fashioned leaf sprung dead axle cars. Imagine P38 on a Series Land Rover suspension set up. Yikes! maybe not.

Not quite so bad at the back because the trailing link has some inherent flexibility to help reduce strain on the bushes. No direct steering loads either.

When you get down to it the whole Range Rover suspension arrangement is a very clever and sophisticated design despite its apparent simplicity. Polybushes are nearly as bad as coil springs for mucking up suspension really. Pressing on in a coil sprung, polybushed P38 with uprated dampers is probably an "interesting" experience.

The whole polybush thing comes from track racing where cars are set up with hard suspension to minimise movement and, especially, roll. No issues with geometrically proper systems like double wishbones, watt linkages et al which work fine with solid pins and rose joints anyway but the minor compliance of polys makes assembly easier. But when you come to saloon cars and less geometrically correct systems the inevitable compliance of rubber works agains the rock hard suspension set-up hence polybushes do have real advantages.

Clive

£232 from Direct Line for me, albeit limited mileage. Fourth year now and up maybe £30 over that time so not too bad. Direct Line renewals seem to come back around the 3 rd or 4 th cheapest quote from comparison sites. My "can't be bothered to switch" limit is around £30. Got the comparison sites set-up to E-Mail me when things are due so thats quick'n easy. Life is too short to futz around looking for the very best deal and verifying there are no catches buried in the small print.

Thanks for the head up on Saga bike insurance. Maybe I'll give them a try now Asure have pulled out and dumped me on Devitt. Devitt and Hastings not being my favourites as they've dropped me and folk I know seriously in the kitty litter in the past. Trouble with Saga is they don't have delete on their E-Mail. Lord knows what they'd make of my near unique Norton tho'.

Clive

I'm impressed with the results. Hafta give one a try soon.

Clive

So which £20 steam cleaner has the official BPSM P38-Safe rating? Or should I just dig out the Earlex Steam Wallpaper Stripper thingy from the back of the attic and see what other bits are in the box?

Wouldn't have the nerve to point one anywhere near car bits, especially if it might hit electrics, without re-assurance from folks who have been there and done it.

Still chasing my teeny leak problem. Fix one, its good for a month then another appears. I figure its been run with magic sealer junk which is slowly wearing out after two coolant changes in my hands. Guess its time to join the "flushed my heater matrix group" although all seems to function adequately. Leak is more irritating than serious. Basically splash a bit of coolant in when I top up the screen wash.

When I did my throttle plate heater and hoses I found the hoses were sufficiently cracked in places for coolant to have oozed through the hose along the crack. Original hoses so after 16 / 17 odd years I guess they'd done their stint.

Clive

Age related problem. Umpteen hot to cold thermal cycles on a large, shallow, thread in aluminium alloy will eventually loosen it. Doesn't help that there is a temperature gradient along the thread too.

Aluminium alloys do funny things when it comes to stress and thermal cycling. Something the designers have to be well aware of when choosing materials for seriously designed things. Sort of thing that bites you on the ass several years down the line when, as with rocker covers, only basic design like cheap, casts well and can be painted are considered.

Alloy wheels still worry me as fatigue life of the materials used is both finite and seriously shortened if the folk who make them don't do it right. Gawd knows what effect back street repairs have. Nice fat P38 tyres mean such is probably no worry for us but the modern rubber band tyred breed suffer badly when kerbed and I'm certain that many are repaired when they should have been scrapped.

Clive

Mine does that too. Sometimes wrapping a rag round the tube when holding with one hand gives enough grip to remove the cap. Otherwise I use one of those Boa Constrictor rubber strap wrench thingies to hold it. Works fine.

Those Boa Constrictors are expensive for what they are but occasionally the only thing that will get you out of trouble without unacceptable marking or other damage to whatever you are holding. I've got three, full size, baby and an even smaller unbranded beast, probably out of Poundland / Poundshop or similar, intended for bottle and jar opening. Funnily enough the unbranded one has teeth on the back of the belt which logically ought to give a stronger pull whilst the Boas are just a plain band.

Rag underneath trick for extra friction helps if something is really stubborn. Tried too hard once and broke the strap on Baby Boa. Which got fixed as tightwad 'ere wasn't splashing out that much on a new one!

Clive

Might be prudent to have a look at the other tyres too in case Mr Bubba Oik Fitter has inflicted similar damage without actually causing a slow leak.

I reckon it didn't seat properly when first fitted despite maximum compressor output and Mr B.O.F didn't get the bead breaker in square when getting a thoroughly jammed tyre off before trying again.

The man who showed me how to use a tyre machine insisted that best practice was to verify that the tyre was going on sufficiently close to square with minimal pressure rather than relying on lubrication and full compressor output to straighten it out. I've seen similar cuts, albeit without exposing the cords, when Watling Tyres used to change the skinny front tyres on my old Yamaha GTS. Knew in advance that it would happen because their bead breakers were known not to work properly on that particular tyre and wheel combination.

Clive

Does the garage on the corner know about the standard bushes being oversize for the hole so a tapered compressing tool is needed to get them in properly?

Just ordered up all the bushes and stuff for my front end. Gonna get me another set of front suspension arms and do the bush fit at my leisure so the on car job becomes a straight swop. I find it hard to believe that the dimensions of the compressing taper aren't out on the internet. Heaps of "how I bodged it" and "poly bushes are easier" stuff tho'. Concluded a log time ago that when there is a special tool there is usually good reason for it so the job goes much better if you have said tool or a reasonable facsimile thereof. (Probably after taking a couple or 3 hours to put a Velocette clutch together the Haynes way. Factory way takes about 5 minutes and a minute to adjust!)

So I guess I gotta go figure out the compressing taper from first principles. Shouldn't be hard. Compressing preloads the rubber in compression which greatly improves performance under roll loads so an ordinary same size bush won't do as well.

Clive

Warning Tech-Nerd Post

Given what I used to do to earn an honest (!!?) crust somewhat overdeveloped Rikki-Tikki-Tavi tendencies are probably inevitable. This rubbishy LED headlight bulb thing has annoyed me so much that I just had to "run and find out".

Basically its another thing we can blame the Americans for.

The American (SAE) standard for dipped beams doesn’t have a cut off. Dip beam pattern is very similar to main beam but directed sideways and upwards to reduce glare for oncoming traffic. Lower power too. Doesn’t seem to work wonderfully well as the American maximum legal headlight output power is lower than ours.

Getting the necessary difference in beam shapes with simple unshielded filaments is a difficult trick needing precise positioning. Several different styles of bulbs are used with various filament arrangements viz :- 9004, 9007, H13 and HB2 / 9003 suggesting that none are terribly satisfactory. The last one HB2 / 9003 is what causes all the trouble as it’s essentially the same as the our H4 but, allegedly, with tighter control on the filament position to give the SAE beam shape. Far as I can see the shield doesn’t actually do much in a SAE standard headlight except to confine dipped beam light to more or less one half of the reflector.

The common form of white LED emitter is a relatively large flat plate with an emission angle of around 120°. In optical terms its totally different to any filament. As such LED emitters are always mounted on an opaque plate with the dip source on one side only part of the reflector can used so a bit of twisting around should produce some sort of approximation to the SAE dip pattern almost regardless of the number, size and style of emitters. Might go a fraction better with reflectors intended for HB2 / 9003 bulbs as those are only supposed to use part of the reflector anyway. Nooging around American market LED bulb offerings it appears that pretty much every style of emitter can be found on every style of bulb base. Given that the SAE beam pattern is such a wishy washy thing they probably all work to varying degrees of near enough.

But in UK and European headlamps the shield, filament position and filament shape are vital if a proper dip beam cut-off and well behaved main beam are to be produced. So simply saying H4 = HB2 = 9003 and trying to sell the same mixture that suits the American market as H4 replacements isn't going to work. Simple large area emitters spray light everywhere it isn’t wanted as well as where it is, overwhelming the real beam with extraneous light. Narrow emitters giving a reasonable approximation to filament output patterns and properly positioned shield are essential to get anything like the proper beam pattern.

I'm tempted to put my money where my mouth is and give E-Bay 282700261635 a try.

The wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp is actually quite good although the optics pictures are very over simplified.

Dunno what shape our reflectors are but they won't be parabolic. Probably a smoothed out homo-focal set-up, which is a right bastard curve. Nearest you will find to true parabolic curves on rectangular H4 headlight reflectors are the old almost letterbox style ones with whacking great flats top and bottom.

Clive

Took a quick look at E-Bay offerings. Total minefield. Many haven't a hope in hell of delivering any sort of controlled beam shape. Just a mess of chips shoving light everywhere.

You need something with a shielded dip beam source and LEDs both sides to be reasonably sure it will work as designed. This style looks as if it might have a chance E-Bay 282700261635. At least the dip beam source is shielded, although you need to turn the bulb unit through about 45° to get it in the right place, and the emitter is reasonably narrow so the light ought to come out through the right part of the lens to give a half decent cut off. The twist means the main beam emitters aren't really ideally aimed to make best use of the reflector so main beam pattern will suffer but it ought not to be too bad. Assuming the emitters are in the right place front to back.

If the pictures are right this one E-Bay 172804798178 is a decent illustration of what happens when the dip beam LED is both too wide and unshielded. Cut off? What cut-off. Probably in a more sophisticated headlight than ours too without the flat sections at top and bottom. The designers clearly considered that putting the LED pointing straight up meant its backing plate made an adequate shield.

Pictures on this one E-Bay 332400013805 give you some idea of how the shielded LED compares with a normal bulb. Only sort of similar. Wouldn't touch that one as its expensive and lacks a second main beam emitter on the backside. Which we need. Forget anything that pretty much implies motorcycle only. Different headlight pointing angle means you can get away with much more.

Clive

(Who many years ago suggested that non imaging collectors might be cheaper than a proper lens and scanner in a very low cost IR homing head. Promptly got told to go and spend a month or two figuring things out. For all practical purposes a headlamp running backwards with the detector in place of the bulb. Painful and hard to forget experience!)

That bad beam pattern has nothing to do with left hand / right hand dip but everything to do with flat out rip-off inattention to optical design.

The COB LED used has completely the wrong aspect ration. Far too wide so light is going in all the wrong places.

The only way to get a satisfactory beam pattern with our relatively old design rectangular headlamps is with long narrow sources. Either multiple small square LEDs like the ones Powerful UK were selling or suitably short and narrow filament style LEDs. Headlight reflector and lens combination design is quite sophisticated even on our older vehicles. However the fairly flat top and bottom of our reflectors does make for a relatively inefficient light distribution, especially on dip, with normal bulbs. It also constrains the source dimension and size if light isn't going to go shooting all over the shop. The H4 bulbs were, after all, optimised for use with fairly large circular reflectors.

Our lights were designed way before effective computer simulations and the simplifying assumptions needed constrained the designer to using either a line source or multiple points. What happened to light from outside the assumed sources being pretty much in the lap of the gods and invariably bad. Even older design simple circular lights would make a better fist of coping with the wrong shape source. I imagine the smoothing functions used in modern computer analysed designs for headlamp systems to ensure you get results in something approaching reasonable time would also make them quite tolerant of wrong shaped sources. But thats pure guesswork as my professional involvement in real optics and lens design ended before folk got a handle on how to tackle such complex problems.

Clive

Gawd there's 'undreds of varieties. And I thought all the the motorcycle show stand ones were bad enough back in the day!

This one is more my speed. E-Bay 263083504263

"Never Underestimate an Old Man with a Range Rover".

Clive

(Couple of BloodRunners ones in the "don't you dare wear that" drawer. And a Stella Alpina one)

According to the Grip-Tite website B&Q actually are the UK distributors for them. So the ones you saw could have been genuine. Something to look for next time I'm in Tunbridge Wells. I have an unused set of Irwins but "cam to grab" sounds a better way of doing things than "sharp to dig in".

Don't appear on B&Q website tho'.

Clive

I used wood blocks under my axle stands to get them high enough to support each end of the car wheels free using suitable points on the chassis.
Really should get some bigger ones. I guess the 6 tonne, 600 mm / 2 ft max height ones at £30 odd a pair off t'bay would do.

Clive

No 2 on the aspirator fan. Had similar with a SAAB 9000. Monster dust bunny in fan housing.

Clive

Real men use pine needles, not wipes. Gotta be Green y'know.

Clive

No "might" about buying the pins. Just buy and be done with it. Hard enough to get nice new lightly lubricated ones in, especially at the back. Old, crappy, dirty ones make life that much too much harder.

If your not experienced at this do the front ones first with the arch liner removed. Room to move and you can see whats going on. Not a bad idea to get a few of the liner fitting thingies too in case some break. I think I got five or six spares when I did mine and used them.

Allow time to sort out or make a tool for pulling the top pins out at the back. I'm surprised there isn't a "my really effective pulling tool" design floating around on-line. I rooted around and found something in the collection, dammed if I can remember what I used tho'. (40" Snap-On with middle section, but no top, and side cabinet all full with a 4 drawer filing cabinets worth of overspill equals plenty of scope for rooting.)

Forget the "Took me 10 minutes to change a bag stuck on a rock halfway up a mountain with a leatherman multitool" gloat liers. That one comes from the same list as Mr Haynes oft printed "simply remove .... " which must surely be high up on the most effective ever swearword generator phase list. I made the mistake of doing the back ones first. Took a leisurely summer afternoon to do that pair. Everything was stuck tight but it all came apart once I'd figured the right method of persuasion. Under two hours from pulling the bonnet release to do the fronts. Thoughtful amble usually gets me finished faster than the rush headed guys who have to take time out to fix the bits they broke due to hurrying!

Clive