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Hi guys, I am interested in information regarding the transmission brake on a late 2001 P38. The reason I ask is because I intended to replace the brake shoes in the handbrake but it turned out to be a dogs dinner !!

I read the RAVE description of how to do the job and expected to be able to do it in about 2 hours, but 6 hours later I was putting everything back together because my transmission brake seems to be different from the one described in RAVE.

RAVE says to disconnect the propshaft at the rear of the handbrake drum, where there is a rubber doughnut. So I started this and got one bolt out. The two other bolts were turned towards the top of the transmission tunnel so I said to myself just turn the propshaft with a large screwdriver. But that turned out to be impossible - because the car is a permanent 4 wheel drive, and even though the car is in neutral with the back wheels jacked up the front wheels are still connected through the transfer case.

I put a fuse in F11, and got the message that the transfer case was selected, but I still couldn't turn the propshaft. The only way of doing it was to actually drive the car a bit until the remaining two bolts turned around so that I could get a spanner on them. I then removed all three bolts holding one side of the rubber doughnut, and expected to drop the propshaft, as per RAVE. But nothing happened. So I then removed the other three bolts that hold the doughnut, so that the doughnut was free to move, but the propshaft was going nowhere. The only thing was that now I could turn the propshaft because it was no longer connected to the transmission brake drum.

On inspection I then found that my transmission brake is quite different from the one described in RAVE. Firstly, the reason that the propshaft can't be removed is because there is a short stub sticking out from the three legged connection on the back of the handbrake drum. This prevents the propshaft from being removed. The only way to remove the propshaft is to drop the UJ end, at the rear axle. And of course these were rusted solid. Cut them off is the only solution, so out with the angle grinder with a thin cutting blade, I use a 9 inch grinder.

So I cut off the 4 bolts and hoorah, I was able to remove the propshaft, which isn't the way RAVE says that is the method for replacing the handbrake shoes.

I thought that I was finally at the point whereby I could now pull off the handbrake drum. RAVE says to unscrew a large Phillips screw that holds on the drum. But there is nno large Phillips screw on mine, instead there are 4 nuts sticking out of the drum which I suspect are holding the drum on, but at this point I decided that this is a garage job as I have no idea what the 4 nuts are screwed on to. If I loosen these nuts I may not be able to tighten them without removing the drum, which I can't do. I tried to lever the drum off but it is held tight, so something is holding it. Is it these four nuts ? Who knows, because RAVE doesn't cover this handbrake.

I am wondering if LR decided to fit a different type of transmission brake by the time of my P38, i.e. June 2001. Whatever it is, it isn't in RAVE.

If anyone has come across this type of transmission brake perhaps they could explain how to get the handbrake drum off. So far I know that you have to drop the propshaft entirely, which isn't described in RAVE, and that the drum is not held on with a large Phillips screw.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Pierre3.

Hi, I received two new rear air bags for my P38, can somebody tell me what are the soft rubber pipes, located in the top, or bottom, used for ?

Pierre3.

Hi guys, I hope that this is allowed but I want to look for a bit more information in regards to the ABS/TC warning lights coming on, on the dashboard.

I got under the car yesterday, and following both Richards' and Bolts' advice I gave the passenger side sensor a couple of taps with a light hammer, and the warning lights went out, tested by driving about 1/4 mile. So everything appeared hunky-dory, but I know that you readers have guessed that that is not all.

I went out on a 40 mile, each way, journey and after around 10 miles the warning lights came back on while gently bumbling down a motorway. So I continued on to my destination, parked and switched off ignition.

After three hours I returned and set off again, but after 6 miles this time the warning lights came back on and stayed on until I got home, about 1 1/2 hours - due to heavy traffic.

So could I be looking at, as Bolt suggested, a flaky wheel bearing on the passenger side front wheel. This is where I had a lower reading on the Nanocom, when doing as road test as suggested by Richard. The static readings were all around 2.30, a bit above and a bit below, but when driven slowly three readings varied from the 2.30-ish figure by very little, but the front passenger side sensor gave readings around 1.80.

So tapping the F P Side sensors cleared the fault.

Some research suggests perhaps a faulty wheel bearing, a faulty sensor, or a CV joint going faulty. Do I just have to bite the bullet and change everything ?

Pierre3

Hi, i'm not exactly sure where to post this so I thought that here might be a good place to start.

I was coming home last evening, bumbling along on a quiet motorway, doing about 50 mph, when the message "ABS has failed", or something similar, and the yellow ABS light and the traction control lights came on and stayed on until I got home. The vehicle didn't appear to have any problem driving along, but obviously there is some issue.

Perhaps someone could give me a bit of advice on the problem. It is starting to get tiresome, at this stage, the constant problems which are now happening. The heater matrix and blend motors were replaced only two months ago, then the drivers side latch packed up, and the car has driven maybe 300 miles, and this includes a journey to a wedding this weekend. Now the ABS fault has appeared.

I know, also that I will need to replace the height sensors shortly, as the EAS has been, since getting it back from the garage two weeks ago, going to full height when I go around a roundabout fairly quickly causing the vehicle to lean somewhat. Then I have to press the EAS switch to drop the vehicle back down, after which the vehicle runs fine.

But firstly I need to solve this ABS issue, so any help would be appreciated.

Edit - having read through a lot of different forum posts about this, could it be so simple as a wheel sensor ? Maybe I just need to buy new height sensors and get hold of some Wabco wheel sensors to cure the problem.
Edit - I plugged in Nanocom and the readings from the sensors are - front right 2.31; front left 2.35; rear right 2.21; rear left 2.35. Perhaps someone might know if these are correct, or thereabouts.

Another problem seems to have cropped up, now. The gearbox cooler fan is running when the ignition is turned on. This is a new issue, it has just appeared this morning. The car has been parked since 10pm last evening so it certainly can't be hot this morning. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this ?

Pierre3.

Hi, I thought that I had solved a problem with the drivers' side door latch blowing up and locking me out of the car. I did the LR emergency manoeuvre and bashed the latch with a steel rod, thereby allowing into the vehicle. I then got a new door latch from my usual LR dealer - but, as has been pointed out, the "f***-up" of the electrical connector plugs came into play.

The door latch that arrived has - yes, you guessed it - two connector plugs. But my latch has only one. F, f, f*** !!!!

So, I am wondering whether I can take the original plug off my broken lock and then take the two plugs off the new lock and reconnect them into the old single plug, to reconnect to the wiring loom.
enter image description here
enter image description here
enter image description here

The first picture is the new, two plug arrangement; the second picture is the original plug off the banjoed door latch; and the third picture is the plug connector on the end of the door wiring loom.

The correct door latch is FQJ103260 but this is NLA and LR tell me that they have no prospects of new stock arriving. So this leaves the second hand market with the prospect of the door lock failing again, whenever it feels like it. The latch that I currently have is FQJ103220 but it is for the previous model of P38. The part number FQJ103260 seems to have been fitted to very late P38's and when I asked LR they said that that part number shouldn't have fitted to my vehicle, based on the chassis number. BUT - it is !!

If it is possible to rewire the plugs then it will avoid having to [a] buy second hand; and [b] rescue the cost of buying the two plug latch.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. A last comment - I have seen a new passenger side door latch for a LHD P38 with the correct plug, and all the mechanical lock connections in the correct position. But would this door latch work in the drivers' side door on a RHD vehicle ?

Pierre3.

hi, I am looking for a foam rubber filler piece that sits behind the drivers' side door card, on the top front edge of the door. It could be something that will have to be made up of other materials but I would be interested to see whether there is an actual part number for it.
enter image description here

Perhaps someone mave have a suggestion for another type of foam rubber to make it up, if LR don't have it.

Pierre3.

Hi, I would just like to check with the members here, about the drivers door lock acting the maggot again.

I thought that I had the lock issue sorted, after the rod connected to the rear of the key barrel became disconnected. I sorted it out by fitting a new rod locating spring fixer.

However, today I went out in the car, and pulled into a garage to fill up. And what happened - I closed the drivers side front door, to fill up, and the door just bounced back open. I immediately knew that the latch was faulty, again.

The difference this time is that the lock, or latch, is vibrating or buzzing, really loudly, when I unlock the car with the remote keyfob. As with the last time, neither the inside pull handle, the key barrel, or the outer door handle don't release on the drivers' door. Only the passenger door, the two rear doors and the tailgate, for a second or two, just long enough to get those doors open.

Am I right in guessing that the door latch has packed up this time ?

Pierre3.

Hi, I would like to ask for more advice, this time about removing the roof rail finishers to check for a water leak.

I park the car facing forward on a slight downward incline, and leaking slightly towards the passenger side [RHD]. I noticed water marks on the sun visor, and SWMBO said that the roof lining above the visor is wet. With the way that the car is parked the rain almost certainly runs across the roof, towards the pass. side front corner and therefore runs down the roof rail finisher trim.

I had the sunroof out last year and I know that the drains are clean, in fact I checked them around last August if I remember correctly. Because of where the roof lining and sun visor are wet I am suspecting that te rain is getting in through the roof sealant. Therefore I want to take off the roof trim.

I have been led to believe that it is supposed to be fairly easy, getting the trims off, but I have also read that you need to remove the windscreen top finisher first. Is this the case ? I have seen pictures of there being a slide on trim clip for the windscreen top finisher, and from pictures they appear to slide on to pegs on the bodywork just above the windscreen. How is the best way to get this top finisher trim off ? Lastly, are those trim clips still available or have they gone NLA ?

Pierre3.

Hi guys, sorry about this but I need more advice ! I posted earlier about an issue with the key not opening the drivers' side door, but the key fob works fine. Unfortunately, I have to look for further help as the problem has become worse.

I went out in the car today and the door, which I left unlocked, opened fine. I traveled about 10 miles and got out of the car, walked away, but then realised I had left something in the car and returned. I opened the door door, which again I had left unlocked, but when I closed the door it didn't fully close but it was locked, as were all the other doors. I couldn't open it at all, but, with the remote, I could open all the other doors. So long story short, I climbed in through the passenger door and drove home.

I had someone fit a new latch about 12 months ago, but, looking, back, I have my doubts that it was new. So I am thinking that the micro-switches are acting the maggot, and I now need to fit a new latch myself.

So the biggest problem now is - how do I open the drivers' side door ? I can open everything so I can lower the window. I read a topic here on the forum about getting a metal spike and breaking the top of the latch, but I wonder whether there is clearer advice on how to do this ? Or a video showing how to do it ? I think that Richard [Gilbert] has some good advice and maybe he could give me some more help !!!

All suggestions really appreciated.

Pierre3.

Well, it's me again !!!!

I am thinking of buying a couple of Wabco rear wheel sensors, from a guy in Australia. He has a few in stock, but without getting under the car how do I know which sensors are fitted to my car ? How do I know if they are the sensors with long leads, or sensors with shorter leads ?

Pierre3.

I am not sure whether this comes under "Electrickery" but here goes !!

I left the P38 with my local garage guy [who I do trust] while I was away. He was changing the heater matrix while I was visiting my son, to help him move, and my guy did the job and dropped te P38 back at my house. Now, I only lock the car with the key to save key fob transmission issues [ the fob works fine at the house but I can't go near the supermarket and use the fob as I may not be able to open the car again] but when I went out to the car yesterday afternoon, after tree weeks sitting, the key didn't work to open the car.

There doesn't feel like there is any pressure on the key when I turn it so I suspect that something may have come un-attached, such as the locking rod. The door lock opens, but only with the remote key fob that I left with the garage so is this a case of needing to resyncing the key fobs ?

Does disconnecting the car battery prevent the physical key from working in the door lock ? I thought that the key would always open the lock, but am I wrong about this ?

There are no other problems, and both keys start the car. So I am wondering if the door lock has disconnected something, or do I just need to resync the keys again ?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Pierre3.

Hi, just a quick, rather vague, question - when I start up my P38 the fan belt bits rattle or squeak for a while, until the engine drops back to a regular tick-over. I am guessing that this may be the belt tensioner but I just thought that I would ask the question anyway.

Pierre3.

I would just like to wish everyone a Happy New Year, and that the effects of 10 year single malt whisky don't last too long !!!!

enter image description here

Pierre3.

The first thing I will do is wish everybody a Very Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year. Thanks for the Fish [ a reference to Hitch-hikers Guide To The Galaxy], or, in fact, for all the advice given throughout the year by all the members here.

So what I would like to ask on this occasion, before I head to the hills, and my daughters' house, is which valve seal kit is the best one to buy when rebuilding the compressor block ? A lot of people seem to buy the XR8 [have I got that right, I am relying on memory alone, which is a dangerous thing to do at my age], but I have a recollection of people saying that they had had problems with some of the seals in this kit.

Perhaps there is some consensus on this issue ?

Pierre3.

Hi, back again, I'm afraid.

I tightened the handbrake as per RAVE but I'm not convinced that it is working properly. If I pull the lever up to the second click, which is as far as it now goes, then it holds the car. But if I am driving along and I pull up the handbrake then the car doesn't really slow down very much. Probably about the same slowing down as when I lift off the throttle, when travelling at about 10 mph. The car will eventually stop, but the performance isn't especially good, from what I can see.

I took a couple of pictures of the rear of the transfer case, which shows oil around the bottom of the case. This oil is also on the handbrake drum but I don't know if oil has got into the drum without stripping it.

I did try holding on the handbrake while travelling but it hasn't made any difference, so I am not sure if there actually is oil inside the drum. I couldn't smell overheated oil, anyway.

So, how difficult is it to change the seal, or gasket, at the back of the transfer case ? Does the gearbox need to be taken out to do it ?

Pierre3.

I would like to ask a further question regarding the handbrake - when I get the rear of the vehicle lifted off the ground, with the ignition off, will the rear wheels turn without causing the front wheels to turn.

Obviously, I don't want to be under the vehicle with the rear on axle stands, turning the rear diff, and the vehicle suddenly moves forwards or backwards.

With the ignition off is the centre diff freewheeling, or do I have to follow the instructions listed in RAVE to disconnect the centre diff as per towing or brake testing ?

I only have two axle stands and I don't want, under any circumstances, to keep the front of the vehicle lifted on the jack only.

Pierre3.

I decided that I would replace the foam rubber base in the drivers front seat, as the side squab thingy had got a bit worn down and didn't look quite right. I was very lucky to find a complete seat base, new old stock, for sale so I bought it fairly cheaply. It was out of a Vogue Anniversary or something like that, I think. Anyway, it had green leather whereas mine is Light Stone [or Lightstone], but as I was keeping my original leather I wasn't bothered about the new seat cover. My leather is in good nick so I didn't want to make it obvious that I had replaced the foam base.

It turned out to be an interesting job, and not very difficult. There are a few things that needed a bit of thought about. For instance, reading RAVE says go under the seat and unplug the electrical connectors. As I found out there is quite a difference between different seat bases. On the Vogue seat base, when I ordered it, I could see that it had the same set-up of motors as mine, with a mounting plate with the cable connectors clipped to it, but when I looked under my existing seat it turned out that mine has an outstation bolted to the base.

So the new seat base has only cable connectors and two yellow relays for the motors but mine has a full outstation box with many more connections, including the seat back controls. Therefore, I couldn't just remove my leather seat cover and put it onto the new seat base, I had to remove both foam rubber seat bases and then remove the leather from both and swap them around. The most difficult bit is getting all the hog rings out, but when I read up about replacing them a lot of people on different sites have used tie-wraps in place of metal hog rings. As I don't have either hog rings or hog ring pliers, which would have meant waiting for them to be delivered if I ordered them off the internet, I decided to use tie-wraps.

Being in the electrical trade for many years I have a large collection of various sized tie-wraps so I used fairly wide, heavy duty ones and I reckon that they are stronger than the original hog rings but are just as unobtrusive. When you now look at the seat you wouldn't know the difference and the seat is now much firmer than it was.

Another thing I learned was that, as there are a couple of electrical plugs that need to be connected that go into the vehicle wiring system, when you put the seat back in position there is no way you can get you hand in under the seat. For some reason LR decided to mount the outstation under the seat and face the plug connections facing backwards and with the plug clips, which you need to press down to release the plugs, facing upwards right under the seat. So to unplug them you need to unscrew the outstation so that you can turn it upside-down to unplug, but when you refit the seat you put it roughly in position and then put two wooden blocks, or any other support, and lift the back of the seat right up. Then you can get your hand under the seat to reconnect the plugs that are coming from the wiring loom in the car.

As there are three axles running across the seat base, from side to side, there is no room to work under the seat. On the Vogue seat base it is completely different as there is no outstation and therefore quite a bit of room to get your hand underneath.

The only other pain in the ass are the fir tree fasteners that hold the ABS plastic surrounds, valances, in position. I found that they are very difficult to remove and can't really be used again to refit the valances. As they are NLA [no longer available] one just has to look for alternatives. I used the plastic rivet things from a Landrover Defender roof lining which have a body that pushes into the hole and a cap that then pushes into the body, effectively causing the end of the body to spread and grip. But I do suspect that the fir tree fasteners are likely to be available somewhere for newer cars made by somebody else.

The end result is that you can't tell that the seat has been apart, everything works as it did before, but the base is now firmer with more shape than it was. There are a few posts elsewhere that suggest using the seat base from the passenger side seat but I did email a few breakers and the passenger seats that they all had were no better than my existing drivers seat so that wouldn't have been worth it. And, I believe that there are a couple of retrim companies willing to make on but for nowhere near what I bought my new, old stock seat base for. I paid £100 including delivery, whereas, if you could get one but they are NLA, a new one would cost around nearly £300 if I remember correctly. I'm not quite sure whether the motors are inter-changeable though as they appear to be wired a bit differently. I wonder whether this is to do with memory option that I have on my seats.

Pierre3.

Hi, yet another question !!

I need to do a job on the handbrake and therefore the propshaft guard and the rear propshaft connection to the rear diff has to come off. I have a UJ 9/16th extended socket [from a few years back for some reason], but I wonder if somebody can tell me the correct bolt length for the rear diff so that I can order new ones before I start. Also, if possible what length are the propshaft guard bolts ?

I looked through the RAVE manual but it doesn't give the sizes unfortunately. I just know that the head size of the guard bolts and the diff nuts all seem to be 3/8 BSF but maybe someone could confirm this, please ?

Pierre3.

Hi again !! I am a bit puzzled or, more correctly, a bit concerned about a loss of coolant from the P38. I have a feeling that I know what it is but I am hoping that someone, who has experienced it, might be able to sort of confirm my suspicion.

Now that the weather has got a bit cooler I have had the heaters on warm or hot, to give a bit of extra warmth in the vehicle. I have noticed that the coolant is now disappearing at about a quarter of a pint over a 50 mile shopping/going for coffee journey. This is in comparison to a journey to Scotland, two months ago, which was about 600 miles in total and didn't use any coolant.

So, basically, there didn't seem to be coolant loss when the heaters are not used, but now that they are used the coolant is disappearing.

The issue seems to only be on short, multiple journeys, and seemingly when the heaters are used. I strongly suspect that the carpet is a bit damp under the heater unit, inside the vehicle, and I am wondering if this could be caused by the famous rubber seals on the heater pipes from the engine into the cabin leaking ?

Pierre3.

Hi, I have looked through the archives to see what information is about, on how I can check my ABS brake system. Basically, the tester at my local NCT test centre , in Ireland, has failed my P38 initially on the ABS not working, and then secondly on the handbrake not having sufficient brake force.
enter image description here
So, the image is of the brake test arrangement as used by my local, and only test centre in Dublin [north], which they insist has been updated to be able to test permanent for-wheel drives.

On my last test, a couple of days ago my P38 failed the ABS test until, after 40 minutes of heated discussions, got the tester to drive the vehicle on the road outside, after which he came back, and with very bad grace, accepted that the ABS "seemed" to be working OK. But then, like a Monty Python sketch, he told me that the vehicle still failed the test because the handbrake had insufficient force - "so there" !

I can accept, to some degree, that the handbrake may not be as good as perhaps it could, maybe it needs tightening up at the adjuster screw on the drum, but the brake is able to hold the vehicle, on the second "click" of the brake lever, on a slight hill even when putting light pressure on the throttle to increase the engine revs. The vehicle doesn't move forward, but, again, I accept that this is not a 100% test of the efficiency of the handbrake. I will try to adjust it tighter this weekend.

So my two main questions are firstly, - how can I physically test the ABS system, and how would I know if the ABS pump is not putting as much pressure out as it should ? Is this possible, that the pump pressure is being reduced by age and use, or does the pump either work or not work, thereby needing replacement.

The second question is - what is the best way to test the handbrake, allowing for the fact that I am doing this outside my house and not in a garage ?

Hopefully, the forum may have some updated advice on this issue.

Oierre3.