The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse
643 posts

OK, thanks, Richard. I will, hopefully, be able to get it done tomorrow, provided the weather stays clear.

I will drink a toast to you with a good, vintage, single malt !!!!


Richard, I like your optimism !!!

Just out of interest, if I am getting vibration what is the solution ?


Hi Richard, thanks again for your information.

Unfortunately, I didn't mark the positions of the doughnut and propshaft because I had read that with the late P38 set-up it was not necessary to have to mark the components.

I think that I may take the car out tomorrow to check that it is running OK


Richard, very many thanks for posting the image here.

I tried to push the propshaft backwards but it would only go so far, there is a rubber bush at the diff end of the propshaft [around nr. 6 in your image] which is preventing the shaft from going any further back. At its full travel backwards there isn't enough room to maneuver the shaft over the spigot [shown on nr. 11].

Also the item nr. 11 in your image is bolted to the back of the handbrake drum, thus preventing access to the Phillips screw underneath it. I am unsure as to removing these four nuts as I don't know if there is anything bolted to the inside of the drum that I can't see. The spigot and the complete 3 lug fitting [ image nr. 11] is bolted to the brake drum, and the rubber doughnut [in image nr 12] is between the 3 arm lug fitting [image nr. 11] and the propshaft. But when I took out all of the bolts the doughnut was loose but the spigot [in image nr. 11] would not let anything be removed, despite not having anything connected.

The most annoying thing is not being able to turn the propshaft without actually starting the car and moving it, under power, enough to access the nuts and bolts on the doughnut fitting. It would be so much easier if you could just turn the propshaft while the car is jacked up to give a bit of work space. I don't understand why the transfer case locks the transmission when the car is in neutral with the handbrake off.

I put a fuse in F11, checked that the display registered the fuse, but that didn't work.

Anyway, I will give it another go while the weather is good, but I suspect that I won't get any further in trying to fit new handbrake shoes. I think that it will be going to my local garage guy, who has a couple of nice lifts. I believe that you need to have a lift to be able to turn the brake drum and propshaft with all four wheels off the ground.

It is all getting very depressing, trying to do what appear to be an hours job, and it turns out to be two days [ I had to re-adjust the handbrake today].


Hi guys, thanks for the information.

Thor, I could not turn the propshaft at all when the car is jacked up. I had it on axle stands and even with a long tyre bar I couldn't turn the handbrake. It seemed to be locked solid. I even tried putting a fuse into F11 to see if that would work but no luck. But - I seem to remember that if the car is just lift to High on the EAS and then, with the wheels chocked, handbrake off, and the gearbox in Park, then I was able to turn the transmission brake drum.

Richard, when I eventually got the propshaft off I had in front of me the brake drum, this has four nuts bolted on to something inside the drum somewhere. Then there is a metal flange with three wings bolted to the drum [I think] and this flange has a metal spigot about 4 inches long sticking out of the back of the metal flange. The propshaft, along with the doughnut slides onto this spigot, so there is no way to move the propshaft out of the way without completely disconnecting everything, i.e. both the front doughnut and the rear UJ on the rear diff. I just isn't possible to remove because you can't slide the propshaft back far enough to clear the spigot, at the front.

What I am getting at is that there is nothing like the diagram in RAVE. This shows a ring area with the Phillips screw, which is accessed by removing the front of the propshaft and pulling down, to reveal the screw. On my car you can't do this. The propshaft has to be dropped to allow you to have access to the bolts which are on the outside, and back, of the brake drum.

So what I need to know is - having removed the propshaft do I then undo the four 14mm [or thereabouts, could be 17mm] nuts from the back of the handbrake drum ? Is it these four nuts which is holding on the drum as there is no Phillips screw visible ?


Hi guys, I am interested in information regarding the transmission brake on a late 2001 P38. The reason I ask is because I intended to replace the brake shoes in the handbrake but it turned out to be a dogs dinner !!

I read the RAVE description of how to do the job and expected to be able to do it in about 2 hours, but 6 hours later I was putting everything back together because my transmission brake seems to be different from the one described in RAVE.

RAVE says to disconnect the propshaft at the rear of the handbrake drum, where there is a rubber doughnut. So I started this and got one bolt out. The two other bolts were turned towards the top of the transmission tunnel so I said to myself just turn the propshaft with a large screwdriver. But that turned out to be impossible - because the car is a permanent 4 wheel drive, and even though the car is in neutral with the back wheels jacked up the front wheels are still connected through the transfer case.

I put a fuse in F11, and got the message that the transfer case was selected, but I still couldn't turn the propshaft. The only way of doing it was to actually drive the car a bit until the remaining two bolts turned around so that I could get a spanner on them. I then removed all three bolts holding one side of the rubber doughnut, and expected to drop the propshaft, as per RAVE. But nothing happened. So I then removed the other three bolts that hold the doughnut, so that the doughnut was free to move, but the propshaft was going nowhere. The only thing was that now I could turn the propshaft because it was no longer connected to the transmission brake drum.

On inspection I then found that my transmission brake is quite different from the one described in RAVE. Firstly, the reason that the propshaft can't be removed is because there is a short stub sticking out from the three legged connection on the back of the handbrake drum. This prevents the propshaft from being removed. The only way to remove the propshaft is to drop the UJ end, at the rear axle. And of course these were rusted solid. Cut them off is the only solution, so out with the angle grinder with a thin cutting blade, I use a 9 inch grinder.

So I cut off the 4 bolts and hoorah, I was able to remove the propshaft, which isn't the way RAVE says that is the method for replacing the handbrake shoes.

I thought that I was finally at the point whereby I could now pull off the handbrake drum. RAVE says to unscrew a large Phillips screw that holds on the drum. But there is nno large Phillips screw on mine, instead there are 4 nuts sticking out of the drum which I suspect are holding the drum on, but at this point I decided that this is a garage job as I have no idea what the 4 nuts are screwed on to. If I loosen these nuts I may not be able to tighten them without removing the drum, which I can't do. I tried to lever the drum off but it is held tight, so something is holding it. Is it these four nuts ? Who knows, because RAVE doesn't cover this handbrake.

I am wondering if LR decided to fit a different type of transmission brake by the time of my P38, i.e. June 2001. Whatever it is, it isn't in RAVE.

If anyone has come across this type of transmission brake perhaps they could explain how to get the handbrake drum off. So far I know that you have to drop the propshaft entirely, which isn't described in RAVE, and that the drum is not held on with a large Phillips screw.

Any advice will be appreciated.


Hi Paul, I apologise for not responding to your post earlier - I have only just read the various new posts.

I am pleased that you got your door lock open, the problem that I had was on the drivers' door with the key barrel. The first time I got locked out I was able to open the door by tapping the motor side of the lock with a long thin piece of stainless steel tubing, and the door opened immediately. It was because the lock rod connected to the back of the key barrel had fallen off. So the BeCM thought that the door was locked, all the time. When I tapped the lock motor the lock rod must have dropped down and sent an unlock signal to the BeCM.

The second time was a banjoed door latch, and I had to use the same piece of rod to actually knock the motor section off the back of the door latch, and then open the door with the key. So the door latch was totalled, I had no choice but to buy a new latch. But it has been OK since I replaced it.

As Richard mentioned, the inside pull handle can, and does, break. Again, it happened in my car, but in my case the end of the cable pulled off at the door latch end, so there was only the end of the wire still in place. I replaced it with a new cable.


That may be the answer. They are a soft rubber plug with a round metal circlip on them, probably to stop the plug from being inadvertently pushed into the airbag.

Thanks for the answer, Chris. I now know that I don't have to unduly worry about them.


Hi, I received two new rear air bags for my P38, can somebody tell me what are the soft rubber pipes, located in the top, or bottom, used for ?


Could it not be the heater plugs ? I have always had diesel work SUV's and one thing that I noticed through the years and vehicles was that if the heater plugs were not all working then the motor would try to start, even just start to run, but then just cut out. And of course the engine would not start after that.

I suppose that I am a bit anal about bad performing heater plugs that the first thing that I do is just replace them all. I always have a box of Bosch spare items for immediate replacement. I have done this for all of the diesels that I have owned, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen and Renault.


Richard, I agree completely with your comments. You are absolutely correct about drivers today being unable to either change a tyre or check their oil. You're lucky when most of them can actually reverse correctly. As you are probably well aware, the ability to reverse park in a supermarket car parking space is almost unknown. Clowns [sorry, Clowns, I don't mean to disrespect your industry as a whole !!], seem to think that it is perfectly acceptable to park halfway into the space beside them !!!


Karlos, some manufacturers obviously had engineers who drove cars whose bulbs failed, or needed to change a tyre on the roadside, or some other minor task that is a serviceable item, and then thought about how to make it easy. Whereas other manufacturers had engineers who said to the designers "make the car really cool-looking, and don't worry about serviceable, the owner is bound to take it to their garage to get a new brake-light bulb [or whatever]".

At least, back in the 40's and 50's, as cars were progressing they were also improving. From this point of view I think that when they introduced knock-on wheels, with a nice big wing-nut holding the wheel on, that was the best idea ever !! Jack up the car, bash the wing-nut with a mallet, and the wheel was off. Easy-peasy, and the manufacturer only had to fit on big wheel nut.


Nigel, I have certainly had cars on which the engineers had actually thought out how to change headlight/sidelight bulbs, which are such a common failure point, but presumably LR didn't employ any of these guys !!!

I can never understand why car manufacturers make it so difficult to change stuff like light bulbs. They must think that their bulbs never fail when you see some of the stupid steps you have to go through, just to change a bulb. And seeing as I am in a grumpy mood I have another point that really gets up my nose - why are manufacturers stopping putting oil dipsticks in cars ???

If anything should be fitted as standard it ought to be a dipstick. Relying on the stupid electronic system, and the 500 steps required to check the oil, is just asking for trouble. At least if there is a dipstick then any twonk can physically check the oil, but with the electronic stuff people won't bother. I had a Merc 220E which didn't have a dipstick, and in the 4 years that I owned it I never checked the oil, except for its' annual service. The requirements for checking the oil made it that you were hardly ever in the correct position to go through the various steps to get a reading.

And, lastly [thank God, says the reader], what has happened to having a spare wheel ?? These days, when people get a flat tyre, they sit on the side of the road for a couple of hours until their roadside service provider turns up and fills the flat tyre full of gunk so that [a] the owner gets home, and [b] the tyre garage chucks out the tyre and fits a new one.

I normally carry one of those kits where you pull out the screw or nail and push in the string thing so that you get an instant repair. The only problem is that I haven't bothered buying an electric pump so I have to use the old fashioned foot pump. My daughter gave me an electric thing, some years back but it was totally useless.

So that's my grumpy rant for the day, now I am going to go out for a walk, just before it rains, with my Te***o umbrella which will probably collapse in the wind just as the rain starts. I could have easily lived next door to Victor Meldrew, we would have had a lot to talk, or complain, about !!!


Thanks for your reply, Marty. I was aware that you are very busy, and that you would be away in Europe for a while.

Whenever you get the chance to check them out would be fine as I am not in a rush to get a replacement for my own. I have mine currently set so that it is fully closed in the roof space so at least there is no rainwater getting in. I am happy with this for the time being, but I would quite like to have a working sunroof again. I just don't want to put in a cassette in a poorer condition than my own.

I took my sunroof cassette out, about 18 months ago, and at the time I removed the seal around the glass and tidied everything up so, at the moment it is in good shape. But it is non-operational because the motor seems to be knackered, and the cable that retracts the roof seems to be not pulling the glass back for some reason. If I can get a good cassette, without rust or corrosion around the glass, then I would put that it in so that I can let out the flies and bees from inside the car on sunny days !!!!


Marty, I sent a couple of PM's to you regarding the possibility of a good, complete sunroof cassette. Didn't hear from you so I assume they are all gone, but if you have a good one then I may still be interested.


So I finally got a bit of luck with the weather, nice and warm, and sunny this morning. I jacked up the car and grabbed the wheel top and bottom and gave it a good pull and shake in both directions. It's absolutely solid, there is no give in the bearing at all, from what I can see and feel.

I just need to wait for some Wabco sensors from a breaker, to arrive and I will stick one in the front left hand [passenger] side hub and hope that the ABS/TC message clears off, permanently. I am fairly sure that the current sensor is a spurious one, as I had one replaced around 18 months ago - I just can't remember which one !!!

I also spent an hour and a half replacing the sidelight bulb on the drivers side front, in behind the battery. Being as I have the largest 950 a/h Yuasa extra heavy duty battery fitted there is very little room to get my hand between the battery and the headlight, and then under the headlight plug to twist/undo the sidelight holder. It is just easier to remove the battery and then twist the holder. I had to do a small bit of cleaning to the bulb holder and then the actual plug connected to the wires. I used electrical contact cleaner and gave both plugs a good soaking. Then a scrub with a toothbrush, and finally a blast of brake disc cleaner. Now the bits are all squeaky clean, and the fresh bulb is perfectly happy, shining out its' little shiny message !! Just wish that it is a bit easier and quicker.


Thanks Richard, that's another bit ruled out. I still have to find the opportunity to check these bearings, as the weather has not been the best.


Thanks for all the invaluable information, guys. I just need a bit of good weather to get the wheels off the ground, to check the bearings.

Is there any reason why I can't tighten the bearing ? If there isn't much movement in the bearing can I not tweak it up to take out any looseness in the bearing ? It would just save all the work replacing the hub, or getting new bearings fitted.

I wonder what type of bearings are fitted to the Britpart hub, as I notice that the Island 4x4 hub is listed with the Timken name so I am guessing that Timken bearings are fitted to this hub.


I sent him a PM, but just if you happen to be talking to him then perhaps you could let him know that maybe I could do with one, if they are good.

Very many thanks,


Richard, could you let Marty know that I sent a PM, this evening, to him with reference the sunroof cassettes that he has ?

If he has a complete good one, with clean outer seals and the motor securely attached, and the price is right then I wouldn't mind one.