As you know Richard the Receiver issue relates to it not (or no longer..) meeting the requisite EMC susceptibility requirements; ( Years ago I asked some folks - in Ireland, as Huf directed ! - for a copy of their Certification on this but they just gave me the 'JLR runaround' - as I was seriously hoping they could be 'persuaded' to fix the problem, via a kind of 'Class Action' process, not just charge US £300 for THEIR bad design/s) Again they had 'redesigned' it but made a hash of that.. as/and (also seriously) I expect manufacturers to fix it not via aftermarket additions (as per the inspired Marty & Co unit).
I still don't know exactly why this Rcvr. foul-up was not such a problem in NA markets either....
and it's not just ta 315Mhz issue
LR's vison is definitely limited, aka 'planned obsolescence' of course' but then again I also believe that car manufacturers should be required to manufacture (and support) cars for 20 years (and I am still serious about that too). As you may know there are some (EU !) Plans afoot for that........ albeit a little late: I wonder how many P38s have been (prematurely) trashed for such 'electrical gremlins' as LR are no longer interested in supporting - just replacing ??
Back more on the main topic/s I searched in the archives and found:
https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/my-theory-on-the-p38-remote-key-fob.61546/
Back then - 10 years ago - I was 'RRfanman' then but banned; We all know the rest...
Whilst my comments above may just be 'wishful thinking' Richard I have long thought it would be better to 'just' remove the P38 security altogether and install my own immobilisation systems; Just a few concealed switches would do that too, plus maybe a flashing LED/steering wheel boot ! That has to be better than the woes of random lockouts and the receiver nonsense etc many of us have endured over the years.... and as a result we have had to rely on Colin/Blackbox, Storey/EAS, Marty/Rcvr etc and your own expertise (and that of others) of course on here..... not to mention RAVE !
In the meantime....
My own Rcvr. 'workaround' years ago was to use a second fob with an 'RF Relay' to turn the Rcvr. power on/off to the R ! Lost count of the number of batteries that cost me.. Truly appalling design as we all know
The other weakness - EKA entry via the (maybe iffy) door lock microswitches - might be mitigated against by fitting some push buttons in parallel to those micros (but easily accessible inside the car), but I did not get around to that (even though I have a pre-V36 BeCM...). Not happy having to re-design the electronics because LR lacked 'vision' !
FWIW Immobilisers have been mandatory since Oct. 98, but really something of a joke now since Keyless Ignition as you say is so easy to defeat/bypass with a relatively-cheap box of tricks ? More 'stupidity' is involved if folks have their RR stolen and then they buy an equally insecure RR with the insurance pay-off... and use a steering lock..... a common issue round here !
Also FWIW I have been asked multiple times now 'what it is like to have a classic (!) RR' .... and my reply is "you need a bucket of suoer-glue, a degree in electronics and the patience of a saint" aka 'stupidity of design' I repeat !
Thanks Richard, much appreciated, and that's a comprehensive guide indeed !
Looks like the main problems may be encountered if you lock with the fob and unlock with the valet key (or vice versa) - which confuses the security system no end no doubt !
PS: Overall I am starting to think I will disable the im/mobiliser, and EKA, use valet-key only and fit my own anti-theft devices next too ! Funny really as all my neighbours with (newer) RRs are resorting to Steering Wheei Boots/Bars due to Relay Attacks.....
OKKKK, then it is dumber than I thought !
Presumably (rather than simulate it with a coil as you suggested) this is of course just what happens with a (working) fob and a (working) coil within the ign. switch ? ie. insert key -> fob led flashes (and fob transmits code as though the button was pressed).... but now I am not sure how a Valet key would work as long as it was turned within 30/60 seconds ?!
Thanks Richard, that makes more sense (having once seen an opened key briefly - and it did not look like there was any suitable RFID 'smarts' within but I did indeed see what looked like an SMD inductor !) Also means it is not exactly 'passive' either !! Presumably a code (via said inductor plus coil) is sent to the BECM & etc.
(Guessing there may well be a few folks reading/trying this 30/60 second time interval out for themselves too now !?)
For anyone trying to 'persuade Timson' they need to order the Silca HU109 blank which they (and others) have told me is on a '6-month' back order ! ( CRNW do have these thougn, as mentioned)
Another question for you Richard - about the passive im/mobilser coil issue; It was my understanding that in the fob there is a RFID device (which is 'energised' by said coil) to mobilise/start the engine: Above you indicate this is not necessary - as long as you put the key in the ignition and turn it quickly enough (after opening the door with it); If so, what is the time interval for this ?
You are being 'a bit pedantic' there Richard.... I was again simply stating there are limitations with a VALET key, hence my "necessarily !" And I know what you mean but LR call it an immobiliser coil of course !
Similarly, yes, as for the 'flip-key fob' I meant as per the original (Huf) arrangement not a rigid one obviously....
When I asked about this earlier(July) no-one actually suggested CRNW either !
Thanks for the additional data Richard, with my comment about the (passive) immobiliser coil I was just drawing attention (for those without a nano etc) that a basic VALET key (no fob etc) will not -necessarily !- on its own start our cars !
That said does anyone know of a supplier that can cut/copy the fob-type keys (and at a reasonable price) ?
Another Update...
The actual blank needed is a HU109
Timsons, after a very long wait, could not actually supply these !
Note that the HU58 may not be suitable...
(the 'waist' is in the wrong place)
Note also that e-bay Chinese blanks are unsuitable as the metal is too hard so most key cutters will reject them
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So, a recommended e-bay supplier is crnw-p38 ; £25 for a valet key - and uses a genuine SILCA HU109 blank
Again this is a valet key so will only get you into the car (and start older ones without the immobiliser coil on the ign. switch etc)
e-bay: "Range Rover P38 Plain Key Cut By Picture Valet Key Spare key BMW - Item number:153780255168"
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https://www.trade-keys.co.uk/images/product-details/Silca_HU109FP.pdf
j_rov: Then perhaps it is GG after all ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmOHfnIpFI
Seriously I swear with these things that once we hear them we become convinced and focus on them ?
And after changing things we are quite convinced are causing the problem it makes them louder too (?!)
Once with such a ticking (although not a p38) using (slightly) thicker oil 'solved' the problem... temporarily:
Accordingly I then earned to live with it and nothing unpleasant happened (yet) !
Quick Update: My local Timpsons have ordered some HU58 blanks from their supplier to cut...
They will not cut my own p-shaped blanks (ie. as used in the fob) due to 'liability issues with their machines'
-they will/can only cut what they supply themselves.
To Be Continued !
Well I would have gone with lifters until I read you replaced them...
Liners slipping can be more of a knock than a tap ... but that's not definitive.,,,
Lots of examples on YT for comparison, eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOblANah7Vo
( Pretty sure it's not Greta Garbo though )
Thanks Richard, Had a chat on the phone with my local Timpsons - who tried to tell me the ('proper') blanks are very hard metal and so 'will need a laser cutter' !! Told him when my blanks arrive I will pop in and he can judge for himself.......
Incidentally I initiated a 'return' on my naff e-bay keys - and they said they 'will send someone round for them' - Odd !
One to avoid then: 'auto-locksmith'....
Can anyone recommend a good (ie. tried and tested) service who can do this ?
Backstory; Ordered a couple of keys from an 'auto locksmith' on e-bay with plastic fobs (@ £25/pair) but they did not work....
Visual inspection showed considerable differences between what they sent and the original (high res) photo they used to make them.
When I complained and requested (corrected) replacements this was their reply: Trash them then and send us a photo !!
THEIR ACTUAL REPLY: **That part at the end is not a cut. Our computerised key machine cuts the most economical route.
If the key do not work then please break or bend the key blades and put a hammer to the cases. Send a picture once done and a refund will be given **
Customer Disservice is alive and well it seems !
PS: Easy enough to get HU58 blanks but any recommendations on where to get them cut ?
Bolt:
Well these Pots. are simply 'voltage dividers' anyway and so - at least in theory ! - a 'plug compatible' Hall Effect/Magnetic arrangement could be devised easily enough - for instance with an additional local (waterproofed !) op. amp module (?).
But the problem remains making the outputs compatible/comparable enough to those of the Pots...... and that might well mean 'hacking' the ECU to suit them - not to mention having to replace all four sensors !
Besides used Pots. are $20 and new (cheap) ones $50 of course.
Don't think anyone has tried it Chasman: Doubt you could assume the Hall Effect outputs would be near enough a match for the Pot. outputs for an (easy/ish) straight swap of course....
IIRC years ago someone actually built a programmable EAS ECU 'from scratch' -for the fun/hell of it - (although I also recall it was not very 'elegant') - so it is probably possible to add other kinds of height sensors at that level of design too... but just interfacing Hall Effect units to the existing EAS ECU could well be 'challenging' ?! ...
The need is not really there of course: The EAS ECUs are very reliable and the Pots. basic so why try to 'improve' them ?
Besides, as you know JLR do like 'to keep their little secrets' too so a circuit diagram of the ECU remains 'magic' !?
EDIT: Finally found just what I was talking about above - EAS redesign 'for the hell/fun of it.
I expect a similar (complex) hack would be needed for any different types of Height Sensor too:
RE: Hole in stat and jiggle valve...
Small (and possibly very obvious to some) point but I have encountered quite a few replacement thermostats now where folks have fitted a stat. (or drilled it) ... but with the hole at the bottom so the air (lock) can't pass through it easily .... !!
Just check out the holes on the chassis for size ? Guessing no steps were previously fitted ... but also guessing that the captive nuts in the chassis/carrier are seriously rusted up so that even those threads/holes could (badly) need tapping out (even if they can/could be saved) ?
Good point (and warning to Chasman) nigelbb !
Chasman: Beware of adverts claiming to have the 'upgraded' Receiver (etc)... as it might just be the 2nd generation one you already have;
Genuine 3rd Generation part number is YWY500170 and a quick search shows these are £330 +
eg. https://www.lrseries.com/YWY500170-RADIO-REMOTE-RECEIVER-ASSY-NEW-GENUINE
There are lots of ads (ebay etc) saying "Genuine Green Spot" and/or 'upgrade' etc....
but it could just end up be the most expensive small green paper sticker you ever bought.....
This might help too: https://www.mez.co.uk/page12.html
