Indeed Lpgc, or, as Scotty once eloquently put it "You Cannae Change the Laws Of Physics" (Jim) !
You are right in that Latent Heat plays a major part in all this (and quite a lot of hype also now too): 'Bang For Your Buck' is key: eg. If you have to re-engineer the whole engine like BMW to accommodate Water Injection then that's going to be pricey... Similarly the 'aftermarket' systems above (like Holley); Will folks really bolt $5Ks's worth of kit on for a (modest) power increase that could be done much better with (more) 'conventional' means ?
Overall then: Water Injection: Power YES, Economy NO !
(PS: Still tempted to try Very Low Temp. Screenwash like this just for the hell of it though...)
Aragorn; Indeed, hence my reference to the 50/50 Meths. mix we used - and the 'rather inconclusive results'; Fun to try though, although we did not experiment further on any 'forced induction' rigs, mainly the Triumph 1500 (with SUs).. There was always a chance of 'over-watering' too as we did not really meter it properly... Thus with a P38 that might mean ending up with a couple of 'power bulges' in the bonnet that happened to be cylinder-head shaped ?!
We even tried (neat) vodka once, thus dispelling the 'economy' myth somewhat.... Either way the main result was often just a cloud of vapour out the back; Great for simulating a blown head gasket, not to mention shaking off SMERSH pursuits !!
EDIT: Can't find some of the (ancient ) info. we originally gleaned about all this, again IIRC Water Injection was originally used to prevent Knocking (ie. before they added lead).
That said these (contemporary) aftermarket folks seem to believe it works on Higher-Compression engines too (ie. not just Forced Induction); Not sure I believe all this but I definitely can't believe the prices of their kit.... https://www.holley.com/blog/post/the_science_behind_why_water-methanol_injection_works_so_well/
Harv: For clarification this was tried on Spitfires for power not economy (which was not one of their priorities of course), and I recall it was designated "War Emergency Power" (or similar). ie. to provide temporary boost if/when needed
Here for example it was being used for "anti-detonant" purposes: https://oldmachinepress.com/2020/09/20/napier-h-24-sabre-aircraft-engine/
-Again there are (and have been) many claims about the benefits of Water Injection, but clearly it depends mainly on the engine/aspiration/etc involved of course, eg:
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/5-litres-of-water-for-500-horses.html
"8% More Power, 8% Less Consumption".... apparently !
Yes, for 'normal' (modern) engines there are certainly much better ways to cool intake temperatures and reduce knocking etc....
dave3d: Some manufacturers are still developing/considering Water Injection Systems (although it was probably historically overtaken by various Emissions Reduction systems like EGR ?)
Water Injection for petrol engines can give power (and MPG) boost and reduced Emissions but it is very harsh on exhaust systems unless you go '££ full stainless'; For diesels it reduces NOX but increases particulates...
Dabbled with this in the past using a 50/50 Meths. mixture (Long Story); Good for 'steam cleaning' inside the heads too.... It's an old aircraft approach of course - for instance they experimented with the technique on Supermarine Spitfires. We tried it on a Triumph Spitfire.... but with rather inconclusive power/MPG results (but had to replace the whole exhaust): Not tried it though on a P38 (yet) !
Richard: Someone did just that on e-bay several years ago ... c.1m Hits and 1k Comments.... Whilst I did not read many of these Comments (although clearly from some of them there is 'one born every minute'...) I did not see any that said it essentially 'did F All except flash some leds' !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8vjWXXIJas
Lpgc: Ah yes the old "make the ECU think the block is cold and over-fuel etc" nonsense... Again, one born every minute
However I note this box does not mention LPG, just Benzine and Diesel: So maybe it does not work with LPG !!
EDIT: Oh no, thanks to that youtube nonsense above I just bought one (for £5 on e-bay): Clearly e-bay thinks they are real ?? Well that's good enough of a recommendation for me... (Yes, I know... I just became _one of those 'born every minute'__
I will report back ... eventually - but in the meantime I will be busy dropping more coins down the drain...
Damn... it's a scam !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgXwfBTKLGU
Not April 1st - but it made me laugh out loud anyway..... https://www.eco-obd2.net/
"Saves up to 35% in fuel costs", but you can "Save up to $25" by just not buying one of course !
Hilarious..
https://getecodriver.com/article3/uk?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlZL6q8Wu9wIVhUcdCR3NvAxVEAEYASAAEgKMy_D_BwE
No. wait, my mistake, it constantly re-maps your ECU as you drive !!.......
Whoa ! Well that's quite 'a freshen up' !! (Had to wear shades just to look at the photo...) Ultra-Safe colour though...
The Car shown in the ad. photos is not actually the one for sale of course.... just 'similar'...
so perhaps you can pay 20K magic beans which we all know are similar to money too ?
Thanks for the report/s on P&O Richard, very interesting/apposite insights, similarly excellent analyses from Pierre3 and Dave3d too: Obviously Downing Street had much to answer for here (notably our 'slippery' Transport Secretary -Grant Schapps- of course). I really can't imagine the CEO of any UK corporation 'explaining' why he "had no option but to break the Law" to "save the company" under any Government other that the current 'just-make-it-up-as-you-go-along' buffoons either. Then again perhaps a PPE degree from Oxford just does not prepare these oafs for 'real life'.... ?
As for foreign ownership the main problem with "Selling the Family Silver" is that ultimately you then end up eating with plastic knives and forks, which can break easily.. Similarly our lax Employment Laws (as compared to the rest of Europe) and Company/Utility Ownership Rules mean we are 'attractive' - and still ripe - for the kind of crass exploitation we have seen for a few decades now. Anyone know any EU Utilities similarly owned/controlled by UK entities/consortia... ??
Similarly on Energy - and as previously mentioned Chinese Nuclear Reactors in conjunction with EDF is simply a joke.... After much debate/discussion we left (then re-joined...) the ITER (Fusion) Consortium to 'do our own things' but for those unaware there are plans afoot now for (Rolls Royce) Mini-Reactors (SMRs) to be built too, although I feel a jobs-for-the-boys (ie. actually an 'investor opportunity') HS2-Type situation coming on... Still being touted as "16 to be provided -each capable of powering a million homes- by 2025" Hmmm..... That "Lack of Vision" by many Governments coming back to haunt us again. Never mind, whoever is behind these will make a fortune one way or another and get a Peerage/Knighthood too !
Back (more) on topic those Dubai owners of P&O have even more disdain for their workers than their UK CEO of course, exactly in keeping with the standard non-indigenous "employee relations" back in the Middle East..... and don't even get me started on the Qatar 2022 joke either .....
UPDATE: Now the CEO is being 'encouraged' (by the likes of Johnson and Schapps...!) to resign for breaking the law....... Unfortunately (and Contractually) we all know just how that works, he just walks away with c.£1M (and maybe that was actually his plan anyway.....?) "Gross Industrial Conduct" if so though ... but also cheap PR for the Govt. of course !
e-bay - under " car tree clips " ....?
The electronics on most cars will certainly stand over 15 volts for a period of time - ie. the 12V regulators (as found in the various ECU modules etc) will be able to handle it OK: Some components, eg. incandescent bulbs, may 'give up the ghost' sooner of course.
Not quite sure why you would want to do this though lazbaz, is it because you think your calcium battery will not charge properly ? Again such batteries - basically lead acid with added calcium - might need to be trickle charged at 14.8V but that is not an 'operational requirement'. Typical alternator voltages are 13.8-14.4 and calcium batteries will work fine with that too.
There is a view that not providing Calcium batteries with a 'full 14.8 volts' however could shorten their lives to just a couple of years - due to sulphation and/or acid stratification issues. If you are concerned this is likely then just getting one with a 4-5 year warranty is a good idea of course......
Useful and very comprehensive resource on all this: https://batteryuniversity.com/
Hmmmm... Do you have that chap's details Symes ?
Yes some folks are Christmas Crackers !
Good work/deduction Simon, Cheers !
Using 'box section' steel bolted through works well too; Some of the 'Captive Nuts' on the brackets seriously 'resisted removal' though - in spite of liberal applications of Rust Remover etc. Yes Chris, angle grinders/drills are much more effective than spanners with this job !
EVs are 'the answer' Symes, didn't you know...?.. Just like Diesels were proclaimed to be (by a group of influential politicians who probably could not even wire a 3-pin plug correctly ...... "Brown Is Ground", right ?)
Don't worry though, I am sure they will find a way to fleece EV drivers in the future; eg. "Lithium is expensive to re-cycle" so let's tax it ?....
PS: Non-Urbanites fear not: From documents/suggestions I have read the "Townies" P-P-M -free "allowance" - 3K miles - is (probably) going to be extended to 4K miles in the country (so that's alright then...) . And again, yes, on top of VED
It's 'a complex model' of course Lpgc but longer-term eco-pundits are suggesting that in the future "tired" EV battery banks be 'recycled' to store (Solar/PVC) power in residential situations.... although folks could do that now anyway with lead-acid batteries of course. (Again that just puts us in a "Nice idea, impractical for most" situation ....)
Back on pay-per-mile - and being cynical and sceptical (!) - we 'big(ger) block' drivers will just continue to be hit, because 'they' can. We are 'easy targets'. Yes, we are already hit with higher fuel taxes via low mpg but that's 'not enough', apparently.
It is inevitable that we will pay more with any P-P-M scheme. They will say/imply that such schemes are 'fairer' but anyone really expecting to pay less that we do currently via VED etc may be in for a surprise. Whilst the Commons Select Committee debating this will probably be full of platitudes and 'promises' of course they are really just 'testing the waters' for 10 years hence (with an option to bring things forward if/when they believe they can get away with it... ?)
In fact Dave there is a view that 'Smartmeters' will/could be used to monitor EVs being charged at 'some other rate', and 'at a particular time' anyway.
The big concern seems loss of VE 'Duty' (ie. TAX) and Petrol/Diesel 'Duty' (ie. TAX) as EVs increase in number of course.
'Thanks' to the pandemic (and loss of some of these "Duties") it seems many of ideas on 'the future of motoring' - including Road Use Pricing (ie TAX) - are now just being brought forward by decades..... ?
( Such ideas -and concerns- are outlined in: https://institute.global/policy/avoiding-gridlock-britain )
Furthermore if you have the time/inclination I recommend watching this presentation by Will Norman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmvhAZs4-tg
-He is the "walking/cycling commissioner" for London (paid for by TfL....) and his ideas for 2041 are exactly the kind of thing now being brought forward. On TV the other day he stated that of the 410m miles a year travelled by drivers in London 'they estimate a third are journeys of less than 2km"...... This is, of course, eco-garbage.... (Coming soon to a city near you - if not already !)
No, just the two bolts plus that (slightly fiddly) blue plug....
Don't think they have thought it through that far Lpgc.... but they will (one way or another) "Max the Tax" for sure......
This will make them £££ and they will say it's 'all about pollution and the need to encourage folks to walk, cycle etc.'
It will cost £££ too of course, via ANPR techniques galore (?); They can't use MOT mileage figures unless all cars are subjected to the tax (ie. including those under 3 years old)
AA say they should make it apply after a 3K Miles allowance per car.......
RAC say they will use tracking technology; Big Bother Is Watching You ! (sic)
GEMS and Motronic CKPs are different: GEMS are ADU7342L on e-bay.
'OEM' at twice the price: eg. https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-ADU7342L