The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
320 posts
Sep 02 2016
17 March 2017 - 06:59

I would vote for an iffy Driver Pack !

17 March 2017 - 19:19

Nahh - he is way too wimpy to join for real, unless it IS him - and he has come to say he is 'very sorry' before we all 'grass him up' ?!

Tell you what OB, I'm picturing a Clint Eastwood western (in fact most of them) where the chief baddy gets his come-upance after he has said "who are you ?"

" What's that Toad - when a man with a grease-gun meets a man with a torque wrench the man with the grease-gun is dead slippery ?"
No ? how about:
" Go Ahead punk - make my day - Search for Rave".....

17 March 2017 - 14:50

Do the swearing first - oh you already did ! Yes, steel pin, alloy plates, salt/water etc sticks it in there pretty good.... I used a Dremel to flat the end of the pin off then a thin/hard drift to move it in sightly, then repeated the process on the other side. At least the old springs are trash so what's left of the pins can stay in there forever... and the newer designs are plastic not alloy bases.

17 March 2017 - 18:22

What's that Iconoclast ? You were blacklisted for posting up information about the colour black ??

It is amazing that for someone who seems to enjoy repeating 'Read Rave' / 'Search' Toad has yet to be found out as a "off-topic irrelevant idiot" !
Maybe he has some photos of the owners in compromising situations or something.... ? Only that could explain his longevity on RRnet....

Seriously I think he 'gets off' by finding the tiniest reasons for banning folks: Result of a tough childhood probably (?) Needs Therapy !

Post those photos up here instead: I was looking at colour charts recently and was amazed at how many shades/variants of black there are....

23 March 2017 - 08:56

Not sure what type of pots we use there Marty (and you may have to dismantle one to find out for sure) but if they are the carbon track type in particular they can develop 'flat' spots (ie. in/on the area/track they are used the most)...

When you are checking the resistance across the range of the pot (ie. to ensure it is a smooth/steady change in resistance) it may be quite hard to spot a flat with a digital multimeter: Try an analogue meter instead; Not saying it will tell you for sure if the pots are iffy but it can't hurt to try.

(I have encountered this issue myself checking the likes of flappy air flow meters, fuel tank senders etc; ie. Seems 'OK' with a digital meter, only see the flat/worn tracks for sure with an analogue one. It can happen with wirewound pots too but depends on their construction).

Finally are these pots. linear ones ? - The other issue I have noted is folks sometimes test/replace LINEAR ones with LOG ones of the same value...

23 March 2017 - 10:30

Interesting - but excuse me Marty while I ask some more stupid questions (but which I have been known to do before...)

Have you used these same Piher pots successfully before ? Are you sure they have the same mechanical/electrical characteristics as the originals ? (eg. a 240 degrees turn is max. to min. value etc) Definitely LINEAR and not LOG or ANALOG ?


'Trimmer Pots' are just that (in that they allow you - manually- to make small(ish) changes to a circuit) rather than being mechanically linked (eg. to a flap etc) for 'circuit feedback/servo' purposes and so whatever the replacements are they will need to be identical to work properly.

23 March 2017 - 14:37

Ah...ok. if these same pots. have worked OK before and they are identical to the originals then it must be something else then !

-You may be surprised though how if suppliers think you are just using them for 'something fairly basic' they may well often supply you with what is convenient for them - and 'presumed' to be an equivalent (eg. CW pots rather than CCW pots which does not matter that much for most circuits but will obviously not work in a positional servo situation etc)

25 March 2017 - 10:45

Not sure which other forums/fora you are referring to there Gordon, but from other fora I participate on the problem starts when 'members' only offer 'services' and really not a lot else... (eg. Like Scotty on that 'other' site where your reasonable 'Don't Be An A-hole' advice their Mods. ignore).

Not sure either -other than Sh*tParts (with their 500% mark-up on bad quality stuff)- which truly 'commercial services' are making a mint on P38s to be fair....

Anyway, as previously mentioned, and speaking as an 'infrequent adviser' on here, just set up a PayPal account Gordon and I'll happily chip in !

27 March 2017 - 18:53

Lpgc wrote: "Changed my signature anyway :lol: Now to see if this works..."

Ah, so it was all your fault then ??

27 March 2017 - 19:48

So I say, put the links back..... Makes sense Gilbertd; Similar on other fora I frequent.

Sorry to raise it again but the more 'under the counter' vendors like Toad/LeftLane/Scotty certainly could be A-holes about it at times......

02 April 2017 - 22:49

gordonjcp wrote:

So have we got an idea what sort of header the key receiver is looking for? Sounds like the sort of thing an "aftermarket" box could be created for.

Unfortunately it's not really the header that is the most significant part but the (proprietary) rolling code immediately behind it that counts !

29 March 2017 - 11:54

Know what you mean JMCL but I don't think we fully understood that the rrnet forum exists only for TOAD's amusement; And Hell would freeze over before any real unbanning could happen; Clearly he will read all this thread and enjoy it; It gives him an actual reason to exist !!

I read your list JMCL with interest and reaised the one main thing I have learned from P38 ownership: NEVER to say 'it's just 5-minute job'...
as I swear this thing is just a 'Rubik's Cube on Wheels' !

04 April 2017 - 14:07

Assuming it is the HG -and so you will at some point strip it all down to replace it- have you (seriously) considered using K-Seal temporarily OB ?

04 April 2017 - 14:42

Fair enough OB, but I did say temporarily.... !

Frankly a couple of times I have considered not taking my P38 on long trips but just hiring something else instead...
as it would certainly make a holiday trip (much) less stressful - so just enjoy the break from the P38 heartache !!

Incidentally I have known K-Seal to work with smaller leaks like yours

02 April 2017 - 15:31

Orangebean wrote:

I'd think that high-powered "wideband" RF noise can still overwhelm the receiver. Maybe it's smart enough to think it's being attacked and lock itself down? Doubt it though.

I put a 'scope on the back of my own (Ist Gen) Rcvr. once and was amazed at how much RF stuff it picked up, from frequent random bursts to very infrequent and slow pulses: It was basically acting as though it was a wideband Rcvr ! Some of this impinging RF (if powerful enough) will probably swamp the front end of the Rcvr. too. But the main problem I suspect is the BECM seems to behave as though it counts RF pulses etc (from any/all sources) and then may 'get difficult' beyond a certain number of what it perceives as multiple attempts to communicate.... Didn't establish exactly how many bogus pulses it took to upset the BECM like this but it may have been a lot (20+ ?) which can happen in some places in a few hours of course. (Note for this 'test' I basically stood next by the car continually operating a non-LR but 433Mhz 'plipper' -for some time- until the " Key Code" lockout showed up - and it didn't always do this either... aka 'a non-conclusive experiment' !)

03 April 2017 - 11:53

I have to admit that when I went through all this ( and all the associated hassle and inconvenience of course ) I eventually gave up and resorted to e-bay and used a " 12V RF relay 2CH " (at about a tenner with two fobs.....)

Although it meant I would have to carry an additional fob around at least I could use it for two really irritating p38 'features' so I can now, and with the press of a button:
1) Cut off the power to that garbage LR Gen 1 Rcvr. (and remove bogus RF BECM wake-ups and lock-outs etc)
2) Cut off power to the EAS relay whilst parked (and remove those BECM wake-ups and its 'overnight bag dance')

After all the lock-outs and flat batteries etc I really could not bring myself to buy a £300 LR rip-off Gen 3 Rcvr. due to their really dire original design/s !

Now also considering a 4CH device (eg. see ebay item 371891099809) so I can just flash my lights (and/or indicators) remotely too.....
(Note that this cheap Chinese RF/433 stuff often has quite a range and so may affect other Gen 1 Rcvrs. so must be used wisely !)

05 April 2017 - 10:11

Yes there do seem to be all kinds of such 'fibbers' on e-bay these days: Who are this bunch ?
(ie. shame and name: Hope the engine is OK, though !)

15 April 2017 - 22:25

When I was investigating the problem with my Gen 1 Rcvr. I decided that if you just stopped/ locked the car (with the fob) it may be fine, ie. it would unlock straight away - but if I was away for a while and there were lots of other (433Mhz) RF signals present (such as in a large/full car park....) over a period of time it - the BECM - seemed to count these signals as re-entry attempts and then (after some largish number of these other signals) simply deny my RR RF fob unlock signals altogether..... and the best way to check this of course is to lock and then unlock immediately at those same locations where you noted this problem.

As previously stated the Gen 1. Rcvr. is so 'wideband' all kinds of RF signals could sometimes do this (if powerful enough) not just 433Mhz....
but I never resolved this issue entirely even after doing the usual 'modifications' such as changing the attenuation on the window antenna etc.

I would be very interested what you can see with your Spectrum Analyser: I just used a 'scope on the feed for Rcvr. to BECM and could often
see all kinds of RF stuff being picked up by my Gen 1. (and not just those 433 weather-stations and door-bells etc either !)

16 April 2017 - 06:46

Would have been useful to have either of those hand-held Analysers when I was investigating this myself... !

For info. from my own experiences there seem to be two main types of RF interference that cause the Rcvr./BECM combo to play up (albeit inconsistently):

One is a steady (and powerful) RF signal (of any high frequency) which swamps the front end of the Gen. 1 and renders it 'uncooperative'

  • In one case it was a VHF Credit Card Authorisation system in a Petrol Station (and I was parked close to the dipole used for this system): The RF was present all the time (ie. not just when authorising) so there must have been a constant Carrier present too (?).

  • In another case, again VHF, I was next to a railway station - and it seems some of these have a private communication system for signalling station-to-station.

The other cases were mainly where there are lots of other cars (ie. 433 fobs) around, such as in a busy multi-storey car park. I never worked out exactly how many (presumed) 'entry attempts' it took to upset the BECM though. (At that time I even considered fitting a counter to the system but never got around to it.)

In fact I tried various attenuation, screening and/or passive filters on my Gen 1. to make it all more 'selective' and it improved the situation but only slightly. Still could not bring myself to pay £300 for RR's Gen 3. 'solution' to their dire design though..... Even their Gen 2. only puts the Rcvr. chip in a can (and that did not work for them either) !

The other thing that I could not quite understand is why this was not (apparently) a bigger problem in the US (Obviously it is 315Mhz there but FCC rules allow for much greater RF powers galore). I started to wonder if there had been some kind of Class Action involved so the later generation Rcvrs. were provided FOC..?

16 April 2017 - 13:34

Meant to add this link earlier for anyone unfamiliar with Gen 1/2/3 Receiver differences:


See photos:

  • Left is the original (useless) Gen. 1. item...

  • Middle is the Gen. 2. (almost as useless) 'interim' one, available from 2004: The 'shielding' can around the RF chippery may have provided some limited protection against local higher-powered transmitters (and their harmonics) but it did not solve the more general problem....

  • Right is the Gen. 3 offering (originally £170, went out of production then reappeared 4 years ago at £300); This has 'smarts' to distinguish between genuine RR fob signals and (any other 433) 'imposters'

With the Gen. 1 Rcvr. using virtually any car's plipper resulted in pulses being sent off from the receiver to the BECM, thus waking it up and (frequently) confusing the security/alarm within...

Incidentally there are folks selling used Gen 3's for less than £200 on e-bay but get a photo of the 'guts' first before parting with any money...
or else you may just be paying £200 for a 'misleading' round green sticker....!