He he. Well, maybe not then.

However, I have to say that maybe I was making too much of this. I've managed to get one side adjusted to my satisfaction using the aluminium tube I'd bought to set into the axle and through the swivel as a datum point. There's maybe 0.25/0.5mm of a difference top to bottom, but that's all. Let's see how that goes in real life once the car's back on the road.

If someone does have, or find the critical measurements for the adjustment tool I'd still be really pleased to get hold of those, and maybe make one up that could 'do the rounds' of forum members as required. While I think I've got the height correct, I might not have, and might be dealing with a leak in a few weeks time - in which case the 'tool' would come in very handy.

Hi guys,

I've searched here, and googled extensively, but no joy....

I'm at the stage where I'm about to fit the swivels back on. I had to remove the old collets, so vertical adjustment will be needed. My googling has shown some Heath Robinson options and I might try a 'workaround' based on these. I'm confident that I'll get it "into the ballpark", but I don't really want to get into a protracted series of tinkering and adjustments, so ideally I'd like to get the proper dimensions and see if I could get something made up locally.

The web has thrown up nothing. Forum posters saying they'd measure and post and then nothing. There was a hopeful looking attachment on the rr.net site, but it can't be found. It's like looking for the 'poo' from the offspring of a unicorn and a rocking horse....

As we probably all know, the proper tool is about £1k..!

I think I did ask this earlier, but buried in a rebuild thread, so I thought I'd try once more and ask more specifically.

Ta.

(off out to the garage shortly to see how confident I am in the results of my workaround option)

Thanks guys.

Chris - I think it's always the case that the 2nd, 3rd or whatever time you do a job it's easier. You'll pick up ideas or solutions that work. I'll know next time....!

Not much progress on the axle itself to report, but the crusty EAS tank has been zapped with the grinder brush, rust converted, and now enjoying its first coat of paint. 2nd coat tomorrow eve, and hopefully make more progress on Friday when I've a day off work.

I've also decided to get a new hub/bearing for the offside. The heat coming off that wheel with the binding brake was just intense, and I recently had to change a wheel bearing on the Defender where heat had clearly affected the grease that was in there, though I don't really know why. There's obviously no logical link between them, but it doesn't stop it playing on my mind!

I've got a timken bearing one coming up, so if nothing else it will be peace of mind.

Right, time for a wee update.

The rust remover stuff which Morat mentioned worked really, really well. Quite impressed with that, and something I'll keep in my armoury.

The knuckles / hub carriers came up pretty well:

Then on the way to both being primed and painted:

The axle ends were a bit more tricky obviously. I had to go around each nook and cranny with a hammer and chisel first to get the bigger/flakier bits of rust off. There was a lot of this.... After that, a combination of grinder and wire brush; drill and various wire brushes for the same nooks and crannies.

Then I used a rust converter - not the best pic...

and couple of coats of paint - but shiny black paint, inside a dark wheelarch doesn't photo too well.

Actually, the OS just got its first coat of paint today. On the NS this is roughly where I'm at just now:

The pics also show Clive's 'spare' radius arms which changed hands - now painted and installed!
The aluminium tube is my 'work in progress'/Heath Robinson thing which I'll use to try and set the hub height as close as I can.

Will get another coat of paint on the other axle end tomorrow and maybe make some more progress fitting up the NS hub. Off to a Covid-safe 'party' now... so it will depend on the state of my health tomorrow!

Ah.. never thought of something like a 'bleed' groove. Makes sense.

In any event, while I was waiting for paint to dry on the OS end of the axle I had a go at this. It's certainly complicated by the fact that with the car on the ground, I can't actually focus close enough to see what I'm doing properly! My glasses aren't designed to work on something 6" off the end of my nose!

I'd assumed that with all 4 airbags empty, there would be no pressure in the tanks. Not so. However I take this is a very good sign that the tank is holding air and worth refurbishing. I bled it in stages via the bolt opposite the air hose. No drama.

Then, it put up a bit of a fight as I assume it's never been off the car, but my garage-fu was strong today, and eventually three out of three of the bolts snapped. Thankfully in a manner that allowed me to remove the tank.

This is the top - still a little rusty:

and the rest:

I'll do the whole wire-brush, prime, paint thing and get it refitted. I think I'll use stainless spire nuts and ss bolts on reassembly, with an anti-galling paste. One less thing for the MOT man to pick up on.

Sometimes I think that good evidence of recent work makes them view a car a little more kindly, and what might have been a borderline 'fail', they'll make as an advisory - being more confident it will be sorted.

Thanks for the further replies. No doubt I'll be along with more daft questions as I tackle this!

However, at this stage, if I was to take it out and refurb, I'd like to use new 'fittings' and I don't mean just the ones attaching it to the car. I have enough 'stock' of regular or stainless nuts n bolts to manage that.

I'd like to replace the air hose entry thing; the big m8 x 22 bolt at the other end; and the drain plug. However looking at the parts diagrams on 'new lr cat' they only really list the whole assembly. Does anyone have another source of part numbers for those bits n pieces?

Clive - I've been pondering doing another PM to ask about your spare tank, just in case I take this one off; attack it with the wire brush/grinder and find that it's too far gone. But I think I'll just see how I go in the first instance. However I'd definitely be interested in your 'sticker' pdf file. I'll PM again in case my email details weren't on the last one. Ta.

Thanks guys,

More verbal encouragement Clive...?! I indulged in some of that today when trying to get the clips onto the top of the front suspensions bags...

Seems this is just another question mark about last September's MOT.

I think that the point about 10bar or so is important though. I'm too used to 230bar in scuba, so probably overly sensitive.

I will look at the manual, but in the real world, how awkward is it to remove? If I'm going to be using the wire brush on the grinder, I'd prefer not to be doing it lying on my back. I've no reason to believe it wasn't holding air so if the consensus is that it's not a disaster, then dropping it out and tidying it up will be the thing. More mission creep....!

Yep, that's my concern really. However my experience with the axles has been that once I chip away the old paint, and the blown rust underneath, then what's left seems OK.

I think/hope this will be the same as a quick look suggests it's not such an easy thing to get hold of, and £310 new....

Hi guys,

Been making some progress on getting my car moving again - working on the front axle 'refurb'.

While doing that, I was undoing the back of the OS radius arm and had a closer look at the EAS tank. It looks more than a little 'crusty', with maybe, some pitting.

With the axles/hubs I've found that a hammer and chisel is an effective way of removing the rust and it seems simply that corrosion has got in underneath the original paint.

I guess this could be the same - remove it, clean off the rust, prep and paint - but it is a pressure vessel.

What do you guys think with more experienced eyes? At the moment the system is drained down to change the front bags, so a good time to pull this out.

Thanks as usual

Thanks Harv, that's good to know. The rails and bars are 'in the post' just now, and should arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to that.

Now I just need to get the car moving again. Off work tomorrow, so with the extended weekend I'm hoping to make some progress.

Ironically, I think the RR might be a little more awkward to load the canoe onto than the Defender - because it's lower.

I've got the hang of the lift/knee/twist/technique to get the boat onto my shoulders. With the Def I just walk up to the back of the car; rest the front of the canoe on the rear bar and lower the back of it onto the ground. I then step out from underneath, go to the back of the boat, lift it up and push it forward until the front of the boat rests on the front bar and overhangs the windscreen/bonnet.

More or less the same for the RR I'd expect, except that it's lower, so I'll have to shuffle/crouch out from underneath and maybe, because the rearmost bar won't be right at the back of the car, the canoe won't rest on it so easily, and might sit on the top of the tailgate??

That's a lot harder to explain in words, a pic would be easier, but that would mean having the car mobile and out of the garage.......

Thanks again guys,

I think the rails will definitely stay on more or less permanently; I think I can see myself taking the cross bars on and off, but I'll see how that goes once I'm more familiar with the fitting.

The canoe doesn't really need any mount as such - it just rests upside down on the bars and gets attached with a couple of cam tension straps; and ideally something from the 'bow' to the front of the car. I have some old neoprene/foam things on the Defender bars, and they do minimise and movement, but are simple to get hold of.

Just one last question on this - I promise! - somewhere I've read about a hole which can exist under the roof trim covers and which can leak into the car. I saw a picture, and can remember that this was at the top of the windscreen. I do have evidence of a leak at the top of the windscreen/left hand side. It could be the sunroof, or it could be this 'hole' if it exists.

It seems to me it would be better to check before fixing bars, so does anyone know if it's common to have a hole in this location, and if so, how would I remove the whole trim rail/cover things to check??

Ta

Donald

dave3d wrote:

There are a set of roof rails and the cross bars on Ebay at the moment. You will have to be quick, it finishes today:

Thanks for that Dave. I was watching a couple of listings on ebay, but I was successful with a 'snipe' on the one you linked to. £235 got it, which isn't cheap, but is a lot less than some are listed for, and it includes the cross bars as well as the rails.

Set against £150/170 odd for a quality set of bars that I'd need to bolt/unbolt each time I wanted to use them, I think it's a good option and it's getting that 'factory' look.

One last question from me on this one: how do the little tabs on the roof channel trim work? I'm always wary of old plastic where it's not immediately obvious which way it's supposed to work. Do they slide, or lever, or hinge or what?

Whatever it is, 20 years of UV exposure won't have helped.

Thanks all,

I was going to load a pic of the canoe on the Defender today, but imgur is playing silly b@ggers. I really don't want the app...!

The canoe sits very happily on two bars. Because it has its own curvature to the gunwales, a third bar is effectively redundant. Like I said above, the further apart they are, the better.

I see that Craddocks have a pair of the "sport bars" new for £217, which isn't ridiculous. Although as Clive says, the pic does show a pair fitted on the rearmost two locations. I'd hope they could be fitted at the front and back?

My car has no rails, and I would be near 100% certain that the covers over the mounting locations have never, ever been touched or moved. Brittle plastic is a near certainty.

Ideally I'd have a system that I could put on/off quickly - which maybe does point to the genuine rails, and then any old crossbars? I don't think I'd mind leaving the rails on permanently.

I'm not familiar with the yakima system, but I'll have a look.

Why bother, when I have the Defender? It's because they might be like a 'tag team' - when one's in the garage, the other stays mobile - and if the Def. had the rooftent on, then a little run out with the P38 would be called for..

Thanks again for the replies though. I'm better informed than I was this morning.

(Edit - just looked more closely at the catalogue link in Clive's post - it says the sports bars can be used in any of the three mounting locations, so that answers that question - but there's still the issue of something that's easily fixed/removed.)

Hey guys,

One of these days I'll update my 'ups and downs' thread to say that the car is back on the road and MOT'd..... I think I've all the parts I need, I just have to find a solid 2 or 3 days to crack on with it.

In the meantime, assuming I get to that stage one of the things I might want to do is carry an open/canadian canoe. I have a choice of 2 but they're both 16ft boats, and benefit from the bars being as far apart as possible ( fore and aft) on the roof. On the Defender this is easy, with bars that clamp into the guttering wherever you want. On the other hand, they're not that heavy - roughly 25-28kg depending on which one I take.

How does the P38 roof rack system work? I have looked at ebay etc and it does seem like it's a little more resticted, with some of the pictures I've seen showing the cross bars to be fitted relatively close together given the available length of the car.

I can see that there's a 'genuine' rail and crossbar option, but even used it's spendy, so for occasional use I guess I'm more likely to get 'bars and feet' but does that mean I'm restricted to specific points on the car? Could I use the furthest forward and back points to give the maximum spread?

And, any recommendations at all for what to get?

Thanks

(Edit to say I did try to search first, but couldn't find a specific answer)

Thank you gentlemen, I'll investigate further - once I've got the car back on the road! I'll excavate the BECM and see what it looks like. No need to worry about the mirrors - don't think either of them work!

Thanks Marty,

I hadn't thought of (and am not bothered about) the memory side of things. Just going up and down, and back to front would do me fine, as the reason I am even considering this at all is simply to replace old velour with more long-lasting leather, not specifically to get all of the seat functionality. In my wife's car, which I occasionally use, then the only adjustment I ever make is pushing it back a couple of inches.

Strangely enough I haven't sat in the RR passenger seat since the first 5 mins of my test drive. It's wired by default, even if not use? That is interesting.

How would I know if I have a High Line BeCM? Would that just be because of the various options in the car, or could you have a high line version on a low-spec car?

Thanks Leolito,

They aren't 'manual' as such... at least I don't think so. The manual ones have the small lever for up and down, don't they?

I have a manual control for back and forward adjustment, but there's a switch and motor for height adjustment, or as I say, there's supposed to be. I also have a nanocom, so could use that to turn on the BeCM functionality couldn't I? Is it as simple as just turning it on, or would a 'manual seat' BeCM not leave the factory with the required programming?

As far as the loom is concerned I imagine that they wouldn't fit the whole electric loom if the seat was only capable of going up and down, but I have to say I haven't checked.

Again, I "imagine" (doing a lot of that amn't I!) that a full seat loom would just be 'plug and play' if sourced from a breaker? But maybe that would be too simple...

Hi folks,

This is a bit "what if" at this stage, just trying to understand what's possible - once I get the car mobile again! However, like the title says, my car has very basic grey velour seats, with only the up/down button on the drivers side, and even that's broken off and missing.

If I spend some more time and money getting the running gear sorted, and it looks more like the car is a 'keeper' then what are my options for replacement seats?

I see there's a couple of breakers doing complete interiors. I don't want to change the colour at all, but if I found a good set of grey leather seats are they a straight swap over? They seem much more commonly available with all of the adjustment buttons. Would they go into my car at all, and/or would the BECM need to be amended/reactivated?

If the answer is a straight no, then that's fine - one less thing to think about!

Any advice gratefully received as always.

Ta

Donald

I haven't been near the rear of my car yet (it's still on axle stands waiting for me to finish the front!) but I have bought new rear ones, so I've been following this thread.

My front ones sound much like yours - a real hassle getting the off-side pin out. Ended up cutting the bag in half; then a hacksaw; and a dremel! So I'm not looking forward to the rear ones at all. I've also bought some stainless steel wire of the right thickness to form into replacement clips just in case I ever find myself doing this again.

But....back to your question. Is it possible that rust in the top mount for the spring has 'swollen' the mounting location? In which case a drill and wire brush might just polish some swollen rust, rather than removing it. I say this because when working on my front 'knuckles' and on the ends of the axles I've been using a hammer and chisel to remove swollen/blown rust. It can make quite a difference. Easily the mm or two which could be causing you grief.

As I say, I haven't tackled this yet, so I don't really know that part of the car, or what access is like, but if you've had that much grief, then it's at least possible that a rust build up could be getting in your way?