That's an interesting comment about smelling burning that I hadn't though about - there wasn't really any smell at all - just HEAT!

As an update though, I put the car into the garage last night, in access mode, battery disconnected, and stuck four axle stands under the chassis. It'll be interesting to have a look after work and see it's dropped at all. Just because of where the axle stands adjusted up, there was roughly an inch between the stands and the chassis all round.

Apart from the suspension/steering stuff I've ordered, I'm also looking just to do a brake refurb. I've asked my local parts shop to quote for calipers/carriers/pads etc. I'm conscious that this might be britpart in the first instance (and without opening that whole can of worms....) it will hopefully get the car mobile for the moment and maybe for a few months more at least. If I end up having to swap out the calipers again, in say 6 or 7 months time, then I can get a better make then if necessary.

So tonight it starts - taking the wheels off and then getting underneath with a can of Plusgas penetrating oil on every fixing that I think I'll be tackling... but the grinder will be on standby!

Thanks for those replies.

Useful to know I can disconnect the battery at the start of this wee suspension overhaul, without having to go through a greater procedure when I'm finished.

On the wobble - one thing I am pretty certain of is that it's not "bump-related". Once it starts to come on, it just stays there, gets progressively worse and then reaches a plateau of unpleasantness! I wasn't really even aware of a drag on the steering tbh.

In general I think I'm just doing a lot more mileage in the car than has been the case for a good few years, so I'm just exposing older components which are past their best. Once I work my way through the sensible replacements I should have a vehicle that will run better, give me peace of mind and not offend the MOT tester!

I'll get some brake bits ordered as it'll just make sense to do them while I'm in the vicinity.

Looking to wheel bearings - it's likely the ones on the car are original. What's their usual lifespan? I haven't assessed them at all, so no reason to think they are bad or worn, just pondering. Without a press, there isn't really an alternative to the spendy hub/bearing assembly?

Thanks guys, looks like I might have dodged a wee bullet then. There were no warning lights or any other sort of indication. TBH if I hadn't gone to check the tyre pressure and felt the heat and melting valve cap I might not even have noticed. There was no smoke from the bearings this time - though I do worry about previous episodes. On the other hand, I'm also not getting that growly rumble you get from knackered bearings.

It sounds very much as if new caliper carriers will be a sensible move - I'll have a good look at the pistons and seals while I'm there. I had a quick glance only at the brake bleeding section of my workshop manual, and it seems a lot more complicated than the basic systems I'm used to, but I daresay it's not so bad once you're used to it.

Dave - I might have caused some confusion. I've ordered and paid for the suspension/steering parts today, but they haven't arrived yet. Maybe by the weekend with a fair wind. So at this stage in my 6 months of ownership I've done nothing to the running gear at all. Just a couple of wee dashboard jobs. I've organised to speak to the previous owner on the phone this week just to refresh my memory on what he said when I was test-driving it, but from what I've seen while things are more or less working OK, there's not much that's very fresh looking. That's not a criticism really - when you're selling a car with a year's MOT you don't want to spend £100s more on parts and labour.

Hello all,

I thought I might try to start a thread where I could keep all my sh!t together - ask my daft laddie questions, and once I get a picture hosting platform set up, post pics of the more crusty bits of my car.

I did introduce myself elsewhere, but for the purpose of this thread my car is a RHD, 4.0 Thor auto, 2000my. Base/economy spec, and currently only on about 78k miles. I bought it last December on about 73,000.

I recently asked a question about getting underneath the car safely ( https://rangerovers.pub/topic/1831-getting-underneath-a-p38-safely-and-the-reason-why ) to try and figure out what was causing a steering wobble. Now awaiting a bunch of parts to start tackling and tightening up the front end suspension and steering. As I say, I'll post pics of the more crusty bits once I get Imgur or the likes organised.

However...... and getting to my latest daft question....

On the way to work this morning ( short run - about 7-8 miles) no wobble to begin with, starts about half-way. On the way home, same story. So I thought I would rule out tyre pressures or a slow leak. Bend down to take the valve cap off the drivers wheel and the heat is just bouncing off it. You could 'touch' the wheel - but you wouldn't want to hold your hand against if for longer than an instant. The valve cap wouldn't unscrew properly because it was half-melted.... oh dear... Passenger side was warm - maybe a little bit warmer than I might have expected after an 8 mile run at town speeds, but nothing in comparison to the driver's side.

I've left it where it is to cool down, and then I'll put it into its carport.

I assume this is a binding brake caliper. This will be my first experience with the 'sliding' type calipers - previous things I've worked on (minis/Defenders) have been the fixed caliper/moving pistons type. So, I'm further assuming that the caliper is sticking on the pins that it's supposed to slide along.

The working theory is that I don't get the wobble when I start off because everything is cold - then as things warm up, especially with a sticky caliper, things start to bind. Having one brake acting on one side is generating odd behaviour, and maybe my steering wobble??

Does this all sound about right so far?

So, moving on to fixing this:

• am I likely to need new caliper components, or just to clean and lubricate the caliper slides?
• will the heat have damaged the wheel bearing??
• I suppose it's possible the disc might have warped (feckity feck) but I certainly haven't thrown water at it to cool it down or anything.
• is there any possibility this is not caused by a mechanical issue, but electrical/ABS sort of stuff? I've owned ABS cars before, but never worked on them (see previous comment about minis and defenders).

Having just dropped £400 on suspension components, the last thing I really need is to start rebuilding the brakes too!

Finallly, just for some light relief. If I put the car on axle stands to do all this, and pull the battery to put it on a trickle charge, does it really matter how long the car is disconnected? The reconnection routine will be the same after 3 weeks as after 3 hours?

I will appreciate any assistance and advice as always - keeping this old thing on the road will be a new learning curve.

Ta

Donald

Well, today I've ordered a bunch of stuff to get started on this. Maybe the first month's 'instalment'...

I didn't go for the Gwyn Lewis steering bars this time around - though as a solid 30mm bar I don't think there would be any question about strength. I've gone for Lemforder versions - rods and balljoint assemblies, along with new front air springs and fixings, steering damper, panhard bushes and fixings, and front shock absorbers, anti-roll bar bushes and links and a new front propshaft. Radius arms tbc. That should all make a very useful difference to how the car drives. I'll look at doing the back end next month.

However after all that, I think I might have accidentally stumbled upon something else this evening which could generate a 'wobble' - and it's none of the above 😩... Rather than keep going here under this odd thread title, I think I'll start something else to document questions and issues as they crop up.

Thanks guys,

(Not diesel - it's a 4.0 Thor)

Picking up on most of this:

• Not going to fit Polybush, but I might fit Superpro ;-) However I've just priced up OEM vs Superpro and it looks like the price difference is substantial. Probably enough to pay for a press - even if not the shipping to Inverness... :-( So we'll see.

• Lemforder - yep - went for them where I could on the Defender

• Track rod and drag link. Again, there's a price difference between Gwyn's Sumobars and standard/OEM but in this instance it's only about £50/60 - and for that you get good stainless bars that could even be taken off and sold on if the time ever comes.

And talking about pricing up, I've gone through the parts list and it could be anything between £800 and £950 to do a suspension overhaul. By that I mean the stuff that bounces and keeps it in a straight line, not wheel bearings, halfshafts, hubs etc. Spread over 3 or 4 months that's OK - and the MOT's not due till September...

I think I'm going to get quite used to lying underneath it - but the state of the air springs at the moment mean I'll definitely want to use extra supports!

So.... back on topic a bit, like I said "baby steps". I got the car on one axle stand tonight, and took the NS front wheel off! Yay!

I had the "wrong clothes" on to go much further, and it was a Friday evening so I had better things to do....

But first thoughts:
Def going to need new air springs on the front. The one I was looking at, on its extended setting, was pretty heavily crumbling away at the bottom. Something to get parts for and look forward to.

There's no obvious play on the wheel top/bottom or side to side, so it's not really about to fall off. I'll see what the other one's like tomorrow.

None of the ball joints look anything close to 'fresh' - drag link/track rod etc - so probably as well just to swap out all of that.

Been watching videos on the steering knuckle ball joints. That looks like a whole lot of fun... not. And an expensive new tool to buy unless there's a workaround?

radius arms - hmmm. It almost looks as if it's the wrong radius arm for the axle. There must be about 3/4 to 1 inch of clearance between the radius arms and the axle brackets. I didn't have a camera handy. I'll post pics later. I've looked online for pics and haven't found anything which shows the same area. Can't really say about the bushes... maybe Ok.

Happy to get any observations on the above, but specific questions
1) Gwyn Lewis does a sumobar set for the drag link and track rods incl. ball joints. Just fitted a set to the Defender and I love them. Can't see any reason they'd be different on a P38? Any thoughts?

2) OK - I'll open the can of worms... I know there's a huge OEM vs 'polybush' debate for Defenders. So I've gone for superpro all round - polyurethane bushes, yes, but not 'Polybush'. Has anyone used them on the P38? I don't have a press, so OEM are a bit tricky.

3) Front propshaft - no rubber dougnut; rear propshaft does?? Is that right?

Many thanks.

Donald

Thanks guys, I appreciate that.

I think I'm still slightly unsure of the EAS, hence why I'm nervous. It drops overnight in my car port, but it could be because the ground isn't entirely level, so the corners could be chasing each other.

Two jacks as described sounds nice and simple and worth it for my peace of mind alone.

Once I get it up, and the front wheels off ( I do think it's roughly from the front) I'll have a poke around and, fingers crossed, find something obvious. When you say balljoints, I assume you mean track rod and drag link? Or is there something else in there I'm not familiar with?

I've recently put superpro bushes all round on the Defender, and I've bought a spare set of rear arms for the P38 with the idea of prepping them for a straight swap - hoping the superpro bushes will be as easy to install this time around as they were on the 110.

I think ( as with another recent thread ) that I'm still in two minds whether it's a long term keeper or not. There's a good enough list of stuff to do, and that's before I've even had a good look underneath:

• Shocks - all round probably - wallows unpleasantly if I corner too enthusiastically;
• Handling generally is sloppy, hence why I'm considering a superpro bush set;
• Sunroof seems to be disconnected from the mechanism - presume there's a good reason for that, which I'd need to fix;
• There was an advise on brake pipes at the last MOT;
• HEVAC book alarm symbol on the display (which Marty has just fixed, so I know it's not the display itself) - probably means dash out;
• SRS/airbag warning light on the dash (was told that's a dodgy connection under the front passenger seat - maybe);
• Beginning to see some corrosion on the rear wheel arches, and the bottom of the O/S read door;
• No audio from the rear doors;
• No idea if the Air con works at all.

One the one hand, once I'm more comfortable with the basic systems of the car - i.e. confident that I can work safely around it, then none of the list above really bothers me, financially or technically.

On the other hand all the electrical control systems are not my strong point. Basic agricultural electrics, like my 300Tdi-era Defender are no bother; ECUs not so much.....

But its baby steps for now. I don't want to drive the car at all at the moment for fear of something falling off, so I need to get underneath and figure this one out.

Hi guys,
Well, just about getting to the point where I need to do a little more to my 2000 4.0. 77k miles.

One of the small mental obstacles has been: how do I get underneath safely without any risk of the car collapsing on me? I did read one thing about blocks under the axles, or something like that - harder to understand without pics - but I almost took it to mean that I would need to fit wooden blocks above the axles, between them and the bodywork.

I certainly don't think I'd be happy relying on the car's systems itself (locking with the switch, or with a door open) so looking for the practical but sensible methods that experienced owners use. I have a concrete floored garage, hefty axle stands, a big (3 ton?)trolley jack, and a 'little' trolley jack. Well used to using all of these on the 110 Defender, so not a complete novice, but it's one of these things that you don't know until you know. I've tried searching the web, but not found anything.

Why? I have a nasty wobble which I need to investigate. It feels like a wheel's about to fall off. (I've been there before with another vehicle). It used to be very occasional - i.e. happend on a longer trip back in March, barely happened again until last week.

I used to think it was speed related - if I pootled about at 50, then no bother; if I went up to 70+ then it would kick in, but ease again once I'd slowed. Now I'm not so sure - it happened on a short run home last Friday (and I haven't used it since - because I don't want a wheel to fall off!) and on that occasion it seemed to be present even down to lower speeds.

My thoughts are - in no real order - a duff propshaft UJ which is getting worse; a diff missing it's damper thing; or a wheel bearing that's on the way out. On a Defender I'd also be wondering about the front swivel tension.

Any help you can offer on safely getting underneath, and pointers on likely wobble candidates would be very gratefully received.

(off out now to replace a timing cover on a 1.2 Clio!)

Thanks for the reply!

I figured this out kind of by default. I had the panels either side of the centre console out, to remove the HEVAC controller - no wires under there. Then I took the LH kick panel out while I was working on the heater blower and found a few bits of the loom.

Without disturbing things at all, everything looks pretty good in there. Nothing that would make me think there was any corrosion or the like.

Which does point more towards the 2nd row speakers. I'll need to take the RH driver's side off shortly to see if I can figure out why the window isn't working - and that will be a good opportunity to check out the speakers too.

Hi GD,

Thanks for that. Followed these instructions earlier today, and everything's now working fine. Back to having 2 keys that work. Really appreciate that.

Maybe those instructions aren't in my driver's handbook, because it's supposed to smart synch. Anyway, now I know.

On the point about the car coming with 4 keys, mine's a pretty lowline spec, so no memory seats. But is it possible that the third fob I have will also synch along with the other two?

Ta

Donald

Nope - still the same.

Out to the car; tried to open it with key #1 (the original one) - nothing.

Opened it with key #2, put key #1 into the ignition and started the car with it (momentarily) and all was OK. Switched the engine off, key #1 out of the ignition; tried to lock the doors with it - nope. The lights on the fob are working, but the car's not doing anything.

Locked the car with #2, no problems there.

So somehow, the original key, #1, will still start the car but won't work the doors...?

Edit - should maybe had said earlier - it's a 2000 year vehicle, so 'smart synch' should work...?

Hi GD,

Not so far. If I open the car, with fob #2, I can put #1 into the ignition and start the engine, but it still won't lock the car using the buttons. I thought that putting the key in the ignition was enough to synchronise it - that certainly worked very easily with key #2 when I put it back into service.

Having said that, a few hours have passed. Let me nip out now and see if things have changed.

Hey guys,
Hope everyone's well.
I think I've had my first brush with key fob shenanigans.
I was working on the car this afternoon, fitting the trim back in after fitting the new fan controller and refurbed switchpack and HEVAC controller. So I had two key fobs with me, both sitting on the top of the dash. After I'd finished, I put one key into the ignition, tried to start the car and got the engine disabled message.... and this was the original key that used to do everything. Puzzled.
But maybe I should go back to the beginning:
When I got the car I was given three fobs - we'll call them 1, 2 and 3.
Fob 1 was the only one I was using. The other two were in the house. I thought they were actually broken/dead batteries, but I was also concerned that relying on just #1 was a bit risky. Examining #2 and #3 I discovered the little red light was working on both. Result! So I took #2 down, synched it with the car just be sticking it in the ignition and had 2 good keys. Happy chappy.

So, today. Fobs 1 and 2 are clipped together (don't ask me why). Opened the car, drove it into the garage, took the keys out and left them on the dash. Because of the work, I had 2 or 3 of the doors being opened and shut frequently.

Finished the work, went to start the car, picked up the fobs, put #1 into the ignition, and got the engine disabled; press fob message. Tried pressing the buttons on fob #1 and it did absolutely nothing.

In the end I put fob #2 into the ignition, started the car, parked and locked it, with fob #2. Fob #1 - the original one I was using from the begining will now not lock or unlock the doors - but will start the car again!?

I thought synchronising was as simple as putting the key into the ignition?

I did look at the drivers manual - but couldn't find anything helpful in there.

I'm hoping it's something simple - but any advice on what I might have done wrong? Hopefully I've explained things clearly enough.

Ta

Donald

I thought I'd just update this, on the question of the Citroen fan compatibility.

Fan arrived, as did my HEVAC controller back from Martin in double-quick time. Time to get busy.

I have photos I can put up if anyone's interested, once I look into how to do that on this forum. Basically though, by cutting off one connector on the car loom, and crimping on another to fit the Citroen fan wiring, I think I could have slotted it right in with no trouble. They are from the same manufacturer and clearly share the same DNA.

In the end though, I didn't: I changed over the transistor/relay controller thing, slotted the old fan back in and..... silence! Unless I want the fan running of course, when I simpy turn it on! Brilliantly simple. Amazing no-one's ever thought of it before!

Why not use the Citroen fan? Two reasons really: the RR fan has four screws to fit the casing into the car; the Citroen just 3 - although those three are compatible and line up; and the RR fan fits into its housing using three rubber mounts. The Citroen one has four plastic leaves/springs moulded in. I'm sure they work OK, but it seemed to me that the rubber mounts would maybe do a better job of isolating fan noise/vibration from the dash. But it would probably have been entirely marginal.

I did also consider swapping the Citroen motor and 'hamster wheel' into the RR casing, but the main plug socket into the motor is sufficiently different not to make this straightforward.

Also, it only took me about 30 mins to get the fan out, so I thought that even if the RR fan does give up the ghost, it's not a big deal to go back in and swap them over.

Like I say, the end result is... silence... and it's lovely! Just a shame I can't take it for a nice long drive!

hi,
Thanks for the offer - that's very generous indeed, but I think I'll let you hang onto that as a spare and I'll just get the Citroen one. I can find a fan and resistor for £30 so, for the extra £20 it's probably worth it as an experiment and I can report back on whether it fits or not.

The fan in my car has been running constantly with the ignition for who knows how long - hours and hours and hours even since I've had the car - so it's worth a punt to see if a new Citroen fan will go in there anyway. At least now I can buy it with a little more confidence. Thanks.

Hi guys,

I have exactly the same issue as described in the original post. I'd hoped that taking the HEVAC controller out might fix it, but no such luck.

Over here in the UK I think I can probably find used fan/controllers OK, but they'll all be a bit old by now.

Can someone confirm that the "Citroen" unit will provide a suitable 'plug and play' controller - or are the whole fan/controller assemblies really identical? I think that's what I'm getting from the posts above, but just to be sure before buying something.

Ta

Donald

Gilbertd wrote:

Mid range speakers are pretty obvious, as they have their own cloth covered grille above the grille for the woofers. Speaker feeds also go via a multiway connector behind the LH kick panel although it would be a bit of a coincidence if only the feeds to the rear speakers had gone green and hairy and neither of the feeds to the fronts.

Updating this as I now have a little more info.
It is a mid range install - I just hadn't noticed the additional speaker cover.

I was able to have a look at the install yesterday, as I was pulling out the HEVAC controller anyway. It's a pretty basic Sony unit that's in there - no sub outlets or anything - just the aerial coax, and the ISO plug link from the unit to the car wiring. I couldn't see anything wrong with that at all.

So - when you say the LH kick panel - is that the one I'd have removed to get access to the HEVAC screws? Or is it something on the other side of the footwell? i.e. adjacent to the door/wing?

Once I get my window switch panel back I suspect I might be having to go into the doors anyway to check out the mechanisms, so that would be a good opportunity to investigate the speakers.

Ta.

Thanks for the help folks. Just to report that it all went smoothly - my first P38 battery off/on under my belt :-) From such small acorns, who knows where we'll get to!?

Brilliant - thanks guys.

Can't get a more relevant answer than that!

Cheers