Why bother when he could just buy one off the shelf? See http://www.v8developments.co.uk/50long.htm, good for 350-400bhp depending on cam.
As I said, here lots of people love to spend endless time working and suffering on questionable ideas. I got used to it ...
But my mate is young (half my age!) he is a programmer which means spends all his day in front of the PC, and likes to spend his free time making up stuff .... oh well, we were young once as well !
There's a Brit living in the US that has fitted an LS1 with 4L60e into a P38 and all it needed was an adapter to mate the GM gearbox to the existing transfer case. He's got everything, BeCM, EAS, ABS and all instruments working exactly as they should too. Overfinch used to fit an American V8 (a Ford I think) into the P38 using the original 4HP24.
This is as I wrote above, possibilities given by each place. Here an LS1 is a mirage. BMW stuff is much more common ...
While the BMW engine from the L322 may not be the best and a lot of people complain about the Vanos system, but if doing a conversion you wouldn't put a knackered old engine in, you'd at least rebuild it first. That way it will last just as long as it would have done when new.
Well, here you are presenting again another valid point: how much does it cost to rebuild an M62 compared to an RV8?
If you make some research, is not exactly a cheap proposition ... and again, some things provide questionable results, for example re-sleeving it in case the Alusil (Nikasil in earlier models) fails.
I do not know prices in UK, but here the rebuild list for a M62 is really a high price.
Ah! and no, no way I would go Diesel if I can avoid it ...
The problem is more that you'll put thousands into a Rover V8 to get it to that state, and its not like its then suddenly reliable. Its still the same engine with many flaws, its just a fresh one. Thats the bit that i'm wary of.
And you right to be wary ... for that you should have never got into a P38, or even a Land Rover in the first place LOL. But we love to have something to deal with every time ....
It is true that the RV8 is an engine with several weak points, but at least they are all well documented and you got plenty specialists that know how to deal with them, after all, is an UK engine and most you guys are in the UK. Abroad in some places might not be that easy. Me here, although in East Europe rebuilding old engines is almost a weekly routing for most mechanics, a very old-school engine such as this, I would not trust anyone to do it.
But there ... after all, one you have sorted a porous block, fitted top hats, machine properly the heads and balance the engine, the rest is really a lesser problem.
And in comparison with having to re-sleeve a BMW lump because the Alusil coating has failed ... now that is the fun!
You can pull a 20 year old M57 out of a scrap E39 and pretty much know it'll just work. It might want a new turbo at some point, but the actual engine is solid. And the same goes for most modern engines. Thus the question, do you spend the time/money making a good Rover V8, or do you instead spend it making some other more reliable modern engine fit instead.
That is a subjective point of view indeed. Is a matter of choosing what problem you want to deal with. For me here, surrounded by people with uncertain projects, changing powerplant would be a matter of several weeks if not months dealing with various people for fab work, electrics connections, and the such, plus my own time, which is very limited. I need my junk to be in running condition, not in an endless loop of technical ecstasy ... for that I already went and started other projects :-(
So for me the answer is easy, stick with the RV8 or change car altogether. Now that is a question ....
I had not time these days for my neglected queen, I just gave her a much needed wash ....
Something I discovered that works with the foam as you said, "gone soft", is to pass them through a steam cleaner, not a vacuum cleaner, but those devices that literally make steam. For some reason, they "regrow" to size after a couple of applications. You have to be delicate in the most "smashed" areas not to break the foam apart, but believe me, it works!
Certainly buying a steam cleaner but such purpose is overkill, but if you can borrow or rent one for the purpose, it pays off!
I've swapped seats and bases on mine and no, I do not recall any settings or calibration. Mount, plug it in, check if works, tighten :-)
To shorten the pump would be tricky, and have to ditch the sender. I'd rather sell it as used part (mind its got 290k km), and get a new one anyway.
There are already tanks made for kit cars and off road vehicles that come with an incorporated sender, and made ready to "fit and forget". No sense to indulge in playing around ... they even accept custom sizes. Made simple :-)
I took some measurements, margin of error +/- 1cm
As you can see from the stepped shape, I believe a tank that can fit in a "box" of say max 560x500x400 mm to be on the safe side, would be sufficient. I will start looking as see what comes up.
As for the fuel, the stepped front part is a trapezoidal shape (it escapes me the name of the "3D" version of a trapeze) max 200x420x560mm, which gives a volume of 47 liters, I believe ample sufficient.
There is no way to fit the OEM pump and sender, as it is positioned in the "high" part of the fuel tank.
A suitable aftermarket replacement will do fine. Anybody knows what is the rating of the OE pump (operational pressure and flow)?
Another benefit of a different pump would be to have a normal fuel filter!
There is plenty space ahead of the fuel tank against the chassis rail, working around some sort of EVAP canister.
I was thinking a cradle like used in the old Mercedes is ideal, as it holds both filter and pump in a suspended harness.
I don't want to rain on your (or anyone else's) parade, but while this fantasizing is enjoyable, simply put, the P38 is the black sheep of the entire Land Rover catalogue and is born and dies as it is. No way to easily get around it.
I am "lucky" to live in a place where cutting and chopping is still a fairly affordable exercise, and I have seen all P38s projects "fail" one way sooner or later. Engine yes, I have seen later 3 liter BMW lumps no problem, but the hassles are in the transmission, and the project(s) are always showing their shortcomings.
First and foremost, we got the driveline on the wrong side, this means we cannot use anything from later cars - from the L322 onwards, the rear driveshaft and diff are where they are supposed to be, i.e. in the center. Ours is off-set to the left.
How would you match that? I had a friend attempting to overcome the issue by using a different fuel tank, move the entire drive to the center, and use a Patrol axle, but you need to chop the entire back lower body to fit it. He abandoned the idea.
I need to go back to my old correspondence, but I've exchanged a number of emails with David (Ashcroft) addressing the issue. There is no solution, plain and simple, except to stick with the ZF and hope it survives.
Engine wise, I had a 4.2V8 Audi lump from my donor S6 years ago, but there is not way to fit it. The Audi powerplant is low and wide, as it fits ahead of the axle, whereas the P38 has a fairly short and narrow engine bay, in spite of the car dimensions. A narrow powerplant like a BMW could fit, but measurements of the M60/M62 engine did not give me full confidence, as our axle has a fair amount of travel. A shop that specializes in protos and other crazy projects suggested go dry sump, but ... ultimately I thought to remove the RV8 from my donor P38 and use it as a test mule, but I do not think I will be able to get around it soon - if I take it to them, they are huge fans of the Merc M113, which is a fantastic powerplant and fairy reliable, and they could try to fit it, but the bill runs by the thousands ....
Also, I would stay away from the Vanos engines, they always (always) fail, no sense to put a troubled powerplant. And as the RV8 gives pain with its blocks, sleeves, and overheating, the M62 engine has its Nikasil/Alusil deterioration, the Vanos endless problems, among others.
Yes, it's got plenty horses to start with, but ....
And this without getting into the electronics hassles, ECM, BeCM, etc.
A friend is trying to rebuild his 4.6 trying to find components from other engines to make some Frankenstein with at least 4.8/4.9 liters, and hoping for more power. So far he's been at it for months, with no tangible result to be seen.
I got so depressed over the subject over the years that sometimes I want to get rid of it and just get a vehicle with a proper engine, but then every time I drive it I still like it and cannot feel the same emotion on another car....
Honestly, I think the best is to bite the bullet and make the RV8 reliable by having a verified block, fitting top hats, a performance cam of some kind, some proper work done on the heads, and perhaps have Mark Adams tune it.
I think this would provide sufficient confidence in the engine itself, perhaps aim at a 260/280hp (which I believe is the upper limit the Thor manifolds support) with a beefier midrange, and continue to use the rest of the vehicle as (poorly) designed without spending endless time trying to address all the other issues ....
I don't know the dimensions of a P38 petrol tank so can't advise what LPG tank(s) you could replace the petrol tank with if you wanted to run monofuel LPG.
Today I needed some stuff and was in the right place, so I took off the petrol tank from my "spare donor" P38, along with its cradle, and will take some measurements and see what can be done.
Since the tank has a stepped shape, with two different heights, I can see right away the pump will not be able to be reused, as it is in the larger area. Not a big deal, this opens up to lots of variants.
Not sure how the sender will work though ...
If i remember right engine computer excludes O2 sensors in certain circumstances, such as cold start, wot, etc.
In your case, it depends on what "failure" is detected (i.e. slow response, open or short circuit. etc.).
Me, after playing and spending a lot of money on "universal" sensors, "adaptable" sensors and the such, buy only OEM.
Thanks for chiming in, Simon! Very useful information. Obviously your figures are helped by having an efficient engine design, as oppose to our venerable (and antediluvian) RV8 :-)
My tank is indeed 720x270, back then when I had a shop with the colleague we would 'tweak' the tanks to allow a few % more refill - with the obvious safety factor diminished - but this replacement I had to do it through "official installer" and we would not bulge to pass the nominal 80%. Also, here we do not have such tanks (95L), max capacity for 720x270 is 84/89L. Pity.
Good idea on the quick fitting connectors, but when I do long travels the boot of the P38 gets easily crowded, so I cannot really think in advance if I will have space for another tank, plus the idea to start drilling again boot and carpets to have another hassle in the form of a heavy ass removable piece of kit is dreadful. I am in a "lazy" phase of life :-(
Hence I was thinking to use instead the near useless fuel tank ...
That is one of the reasons ... traveling cross-country some places are best to avoid if possible, LPG wise.
The tank you mentioned looks like what I am talking about, but I doubt no-one ever made something like this for the black sheep the P38 ... I guess I will drop the tank on my donor rangie and play around.
Will update when the time comes.
I cannot use the boot, otherwise a "fit and remove" cylinder tank would be simple choice. If I had thought of it earlier, when I had to replace mine I could have made some hack and fit a larger one, or two cylinder ones like the mod that was advertised time ago by RPi http://www.v8engines.com/faq-lpg-Gems-twin-tanks.htm
Next time ... for now will consider something in place of the petrol tank. Thanks!
Have an interesting question ... have a tank like Richard (80lt, max fill 67/69lt), and my average runs are in the range you guys described. My best long distance "quiet" running was around 370/380km (230/236mi) on hwy ~120km/h (75mph) with my old and crappy Falken ATs. On a faster pace, say 80/85mph it drops to around 300/320km (185/200mi).
This said, I've been toying with the idea to increase range, for a number of reasons not worth bothering you guys with right now.
As I got a 2yo bottle I'd rather not mess around with the spare tire well and start hacking metal away at this moment, but I am wondering what would be a good choice. I see the underside offers almost no space where to put anything, unlike older LRs.
What about to drop the fuel tank and find or make a smaller one (say max 20lt), reusing its fuel pump and level meter, and use the remaining space to fit whatever can be fit (tube type or toroidal). I've seen this mod in small 4wd like Suzukis and Ferozas and it seems to work, anyone has even ventured or seen that on a P38?
Finally I got around it to connect some charging/USB ports fitted in the rear ashtray, bringing my car to the 21st century :-)
Also needed since I deleted the front ashtray, where I keep the Scangauge.
I've extended the cable from the front ashtray and make a connector so I can detach the rear ashtray anytime.
Chris sorry, I have not received anything :(
Sorry for late posting, some health issues lately :(
I hope soon to get up to speed!
In some cases, as in mine car, the drains are clear and "work", but for some reason, they are not exactly aligned, and therefore excess water flows outside of the drain itself.
I explain better: from the heater box there are two plastic pipes, maybe 3-4 cm, at the ends pf the box and at the bottom. From there there is a corrugated rubber section, again 3-4cm, and it connects the "top" pipe with the hoses/pipes that pass through the floor of the car.
Mine rubber sections, probably due to bad mounting of the heater box, are "twisted" and not in a direct line, and present a kink that when too much water is produced by the AC, leaks outside.
Short of stripping everything and realign the heater box - which I will not do - I see no other solution.
To check if this is happening to you, you need to remove the two "cheeks" at the side of the center console, operation I believe is well described in these pages. Once you take them out, you will see the rubber corrugated section around the carpet area. Have fun!
Mi winter are 235/70 and while the looks are not the best on the P38 compared to the 255/65, it is a softer ride indeed.
Your indy is correct, looks are better on the 18" ... although not that much either: look at the pic above, the 16" has a chunky sidewall which looks proportionate and purposeful, while the 18" has that shopping cart look due to the thin sidewall ....
I am still wondering if worth the trouble (and cost)...
Gents, I am wondering since quite a while to make the "big step" towards 18" wheels.
As my 7 year Falkens are becoming every day less trustworthy, then now might be a good time.
Even more I am in complete confusion as I like all models mounted on P38s ....
Anyone has some set that wants to give a away from a reasonable price?
Any condition, as if they need a refurb I will deal with it. Preferably without tires (less bulk and weight).
Must be delivered somehow to Dartford in Kent.
Lacking options, as an alternative, I am lusting after these, but I got no way to take them from there ....
Anyone has Triple Spoke on their cars? I have very rarely seen them on P38s, mostly on late D2s ..
Looking for old stuff ... what happened here? Any progress made?