Gilbertd wrote:
But the V8, if running properly, is as smooth as you can get. Anything else will be somewhere in the drivetrain.
There's small things that I need to do that should not take more than 10 minutes
I'm being lazy!
Gilbertd wrote:
Quite possibly. It's a 24 year old car so it is very likely to have slack in the top and bottom axle ball joints (not detected on an MoT unless done by someone that knows how to check them), Panhard rod bushes and radius arm bushes. Any of which can cause the steering to pull one way or the other. £1,000 is about right for top and bottom ball joints as even experienced LR mechanics don't like doing them as they can be a real pig to get the old ones out.
A noisy diff is also a sign that it is getting worn and will need to be replaced sooner or later. You may well have damaged it when the front propshaft let go.
I’m in the process of job hunting so if all is well, I may just patch this sweetheart up. The smallest of sounds/vibrations get to me so a 4.6 V8 probably wasn’t the best option to buy, but if I can get the car feeling smooth once more, I’ve got no reason to sell.
Right,
I took it to a 4x4 specialist who has a wheel alignment system. Although skeptical about new mechanics, this experience was somewhat refreshing. Perhaps you may disagree with their statement.
A technician with 20+ years took a look and after an hour or so, came back and said prior to the alignment, there’s other work required, else the car will still continue steering towards the left. With a hefty bill of £1000, I said I’d think about it. I’ll either patch and keep or sell this within the next two months.
In addition, when driving, I would hear a whirring noise. He said it’s the front differential.
v8vroom wrote:
v8vroom wrote:
So, after delaying the job, I thought I’d try another method.
I zip tied the lock so it was out of the way, and to avoid hurting my fingers, I just used a long nose plier to get the short end behind the little plastic part.
The only issue I have is I’m finding that the pin hole is not aligning at all. I can, however, manually align this myself if I adjust the plastic hook. I wonder if this is normal or that I’ve done something wrong.
Ha,
Fixed this issue not long after replying. I sold the P38 and bought another. It seems the problem persists with the passenger door. No idea how I did it before, but I'll check my own notes soon!
Unrelated to this, I know my remote can be weird at times, so I'll use my physical key to unlock the car. In a Lidl carpark, the car refused to unlock..could not do anything but laugh. Eventually, it unlocked. I am aware that the mechanism is mechanical. Perhaps a WD40 job?
Gilbertd wrote:
The switch is under the RH latch, so if that one is releasing, it will show as open even if the LH latch is still closed and the bonnet won't open. Sounds like your LH latch isn't releasing.
Could this be as simple as buying two latches? I can't imagine this has anything to do with the bonnet pegs.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205871475222?_skw=p38+bonnet+latch&itmmeta=01KBM9SB4G510BMKMCAVPHMHKH&hash=item2feee56a16:g:XHEAAeSwIl9pJKUc&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1emqboaPPv3SQ6VOCL3CJ2kiE1Xw3bVzQAnSsPwB11w7OuC%2BzUG9epZDksUbr5ZIsJMJWH5QSoNtBvUEbXXsp6vAlhDye5FnyWyGBcLxs6NT28KPE%2F2HQW1ftMRV02RRgwuymDGTZrCLM%2BTLa3bFxGd7PRpGgk0AvILpKQ%2FZp2SpidHni86KK2e7pbC9Jmji%2BZ5lRGvYjKuPosn0JxLndWLzM9fUxcP4RaTRGu0otIrs5091Qb%2BC1ZjCSvXEVwSymqS48BAU8cYPJS%2BmIQBf%2B1la4uIsSEfeCn4E3IckrgFyQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR76y5YndZg
At times the bonnet opens, which was great as I needed a coolant top up.
I may sell this P38 so I’d like to fix this problem. This is a good video
https://youtu.be/nraZ7D-DwGA?si=Rfi3o_gLR6oHPikk
Gilbertd wrote:
You've found a dickhead. A minus figure for toe is toe IN, which is why it is pulling to the left. Taking it somewhere that understands a steering box is far better than KwikFit. It's only taking as much time and energy as it is because you are entrusting it to people that don't know what they are doing (and charging you for the privilege).
A sticky calliper would cause it to pull one way and the easy check for that is to check to see if one front wheel is hotter than the other immediately you stop driving. The hot one is the sticky one.
If the steering box is a long way off centre, then the power steering will cause it to centre incorrectly but it has to be a long way off. With the wheels pointing straight ahead it is simple enough to open the bonnet and look at the pointer on the steering column collar.
Airbag light has nothing to do with an ABS sensor. Do you mean the ABS light?
You can't grease the viscous coupling, it is a sealed unit inside the transfer case.
It wasn't KwikFit, oddly enough, they were the ones who got it right the first time but "we charge £80 but between you and I, I can do it for £50 cash" threw me off. Not going there again.
Will give it a try tomorrow, thanks.
I did open the bonnet (it actually opened when I assumed it was stuck. Probably got lucky), but I did not know what I was looking at. I know which side it is located, but with the LPG setup in the way, I wasn't sure where exactly to point my eyes at. I'm going to use a bright torch and dig my head deeper down lol.
Sorry, yes. ABS light - my old P38 had this issue. Then, I had my Nancom to inform me of which side it was. I'll disconnect one at a time to clean the connector and see if it makes any difference. If so, that's the side to replace.
VC - meaning he greased the propshaft UJs yearly.
Gilbertd wrote:
Why do you think it is the steering box? Was it driving straight before you paid someone that doesn't understand how it works start playing with it? If the problem was tyre wear, then that should have told you what it was. Wearing the inside edges is too much toe out, wearing the outside edges is too much toe in, wearing both inside and outside is too low pressure. Squealing when turning sharply may be low pressure or could also be a seized viscous coupling. As you destroyed a front propshaft, unless it was extremely worn and had never seen a grease gun in the entire life of the car, I would still suspect the viscous.
Regardless of where I left the toe, the car kept on moving left.
So I've just returned from the mechanic - it's a lost cause. I said I need toe OUT between 0.5 and 0.15, so he set the figure to -0.8, (adamant on this meaning TOE OUT), yet now it still veers to the left.
I'm spending far too much time than I'd like on this car. In true humour, the glovebox opened up once again, so I'll tighten the screws soon, and the airbag light illuminated - which I suspect is a dodgy ABS sensor.
What if the steering box is off? What if I even have a sticky calliper? I am within my depth, but I don't like how much of my mental energy this is consuming! Luckily, there's a Landrover 4X4 garage nearby that does it all, so I'm going to ring them tomorrow and see what they say.
Yeah, the VC is still on my mind - the previous owner mentioned he greased it yearly. Another reason - I did get my alignment done from KwikFit, and it actually worked - steering straight and did not drag, but it did not hold for too long.
Gilbertd wrote:
Also point out that if their machine shows anything but zero on the rear, it hasn't been mounted properly.
I’m convinced it will be the steering box and they won’t know much about this car, so they will probably adjust the drag link to attempt to fix it (assuming this is a valid method)
I’ll get them to adjust the toe first and then touch the steering box.
I'm just going to return to the shop and show them the specified toe range of 0°05' to 0°15' toe OUT.
Following from the other thread, I want to inspect the steering box.
Do I view it from above/below? If so, what am I looking at? What are the steps?
I am aware of aligning the 'two' lines together, but no idea where to begin/what to undo.
Gilbertd wrote:
It sounds like the drag link and steering wheel were correct but by maladjusting the toe, it has pulled it out. Once you get your head around how the system works and what each adjuster does it becomes clear. The link between the steering wheel and LH wheel won't have changed, so it is only the RH wheel that is pulling the steering one way or another. You can even change a tie rod and reset the alignment simply by doing what you have done. Adjust it a bit one way or the other until the steering wheel is back to how it was. If it was straight before, it should be straight afterwards.
Spent some time this morning making adjustments. I've got the wheel awfully close to straight now, yet the car still veers to the left. Pardon the ignorance, as this is all new to me - maybe I am doing something wrong.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e3z9kB01lDOivFCY34XVN4qA - as you say, "One end of the adjuster has a left hand thread while the other is a right hand thread so turning the adjuster sleeve one way shortens it, the other way lengthens it. "
I was rotating the left-hand thread this entire time by clamping pliers onto the centre hex. Under the right set of locknuts, I've noticed there was also a thread underneath. Was I also meant to toy with this? If not, then this is starting to point to the steering box. I've had to cut this troubleshooting short as I'm leaving to drive soon - I hope the additional 200miles do not eat into the tyre.
Gilbertd wrote:
From that printout, he's cocked up fitting the sensors as well as setting it to incorrect settings. It is showing a figure for both castor and toe on the rear but you have a live axle so both can only ever be zero. The computer says that the toe on the front should be -0 degrees 10 minutes to 0 degrees (straight ahead). The minus signifies toe in but it should actually be, from the workshop manual, 0 degrees 5 minutes to 0 degrees 15 minutes toe OUT. So he's set it with too much toe in which means you will wear the outside edge of the tyres. The fact that before adjustment it was showing a different figure for toe side to side also shows the sensors weren't correctly fitted. On a car with rack and pinion steering with an adjuster on each side, it is possible for it to be different side to side. With a steering box such as we have, they will always both be the same if the wheels are pointing straight ahead.
You can ignore the caster and camber angles. Caster will change with the suspension height and the state of your radius arm bushes while camber is fixed but will change as your top and bottom axle ball joints start to wear and develop a bit of slack.
As you can only adjust on one side, you may find that if the toe is adjusted so it is correct, the steering wheel may well become straight or at least straighter. Rather than go back to the mechanic with the correct figures (print the page from RAVE, it's page 15 of General Specification Data) and tell him he is an idiot (and the data on his computer is incorrect), you may as well adjust it yourself. The adjuster is on the rod behind the front wheels that connects the two hubs together. To increase the toe out, you need to shorten the rod at the adjuster which is on the RH end of the tie rod. Slacken off the lock bolts (one needs a 13mm socket and spanner while the other is 17mm) and give it one full turn to shorten it. That will get it from where it is to within the limits it should be at. One end of the adjuster has a left hand thread while the other is a right hand thread so turning the adjuster sleeve one way shortens it, the other way lengthens it. If a full turn is too much and you now have too much toe out, the steering will be reluctant to self centre when coming off a corner, so back it off by half a turn.
Think about it. You have a rod from the steering box to the LH wheel. If the LH wheel is pointing straight ahead but you have too much toe in, the RH wheel won't be pointing straight ahead but will be pointing to the left. Consequently, you will need to turn to the right to keep the car going straight ahead. This may be all it is that is causing the steering wheel to not be centred when travelling straight ahead.
Once the toe is correct, or at least a lot closer to how it currently is, see what the steering wheel position is now. If it is now straight, you don't need to do any more. If it isn't, look at the collar on the input shaft to the steering box (where the lower column connects to it). There is a pointer on it which should be pointing at a similar mark cast into the steering box (you may need to use a mirror to see it). If they line up, then the steering box is centered and the steering wheel will need to be moved on its splines. If the marks don't line up you need to adjust at the drag link on the front rod next to the Pitman Arm (the output lever on the steering box). This is a similar adjuster to that on the tie rod but it may well be seized and will need a bit of brute force to get it to move. If you do it with the key in the ignition so the steering lock is off and the wheels on the ground, the steering wheel and the input shaft will turn as you adjust it. Get it so the marks line up and the steering wheel should, hopefully, also be straight. If it isn't, then again the steering wheel will need to be moved on the splines to get it right.
The whole process is in RAVE, with pictures, but it assumes you are familiar with how the system works so isn't immediately clear.
Thanks for the detailed response.
I played with the adjuster today when I got the chance, and it's definitely doing something. The microturns made a big difference - perhaps too much. When I test-drove it not too long ago, I had to keep the wheel left to keep the car straight, ha. I'll play with it tomorrow and hope I get it fixed as I am driving another 200miles tomorrow.
Gilbertd wrote:
So he's only done half the job. He's adjusted the wheel alignment, whether it is right or not is another matter (did he give you a printed sheet showing before and after?), but not done the second part of the job which is aligning the steering box and steering wheel. It isn't so much the steering wheel that needs centralising but the steering box. If it isn't, the power steering will try to centre the box which may or may not coincide with the wheels being straight ahead so it will pull to one side if you take your hands off the wheel. Once the steering box is correctly aligned, if the steering wheel isn't centred, that needs moving on the splines so it is.
Right, I'm now home. This all now makes sense - I need to adjust the steering box and then perhaps get the alignment done again.
I've found this post (I'm a visual learner, so it helps)
Before I check tomorrow, is this something that can be easily accessed to turn, or will I need to remove the wheel?
This is the printout - https://share.icloud.com/photos/011nhjYbuAZ4yZOzggZarc_-A
Gilbertd wrote:
As I said in your other thread, wheel alignment affects what direction the wheels are pointing in, not whether the steering wheel is straight or not, that is done by adjusting the drag ink. Taking the steering wheel off isn't going to show you anything either.
The tie rod at the rear of the wheels, the one that runs across the car connecting both wheels together, is adjusted to get the alignment correct so the wheels are pointing in the right direction (correct is 0.6-1.8mm toe out although better to aim for the lower of the two figures). Then you drive the car and set the steering so the car is travelling in a straight line but ignoring the position of the steering wheel. Check the marker on the input shaft on the steering box to see if it lines up with the mark on the steering box itself. If it does then the steering wheel will need moving on the splines so it is straight. Chances are it won't line up so in that case you need to adjust at the drag link adjuster next to the steering box. Once you manage to unseize the adjuster (Plus Gas, followed by heat and a pair of Stilsons), with the wheels on the ground and steering lock off, as you turn the adjuster the steering wheel will turn along with the centralising mark on the steering box.
So, I did watch the mechanic do the job. He did use the 4-point Hunter system and did indeed adjust the track rod to ensure all was aligned.
Other sources online are stating the steering wheel itself needs centring. Yes, my mechanic locked the wheel in place with a bar but if the wheel was not centred to begin with, it wouldn’t be useful.
As I want to avoid a back and forth with mechanics, what can I do myself to ensure all is well?
Right, after a second alignment, my steering wheel is still bent.
Is there anything that I can physically inspect on the streets ring wheel by taking it off?
Maybe I’m being paranoid but I’ve had the car washed and this is how the same end that was worn looks after a 100mile drive.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/04323Accl77386efkKRlIanrg
I’ve had the alignment done yet the steering wheel is still slightly bent. I conducted one VC test of driving in a slow circle full lock either side, no noise or struggles of the tires.
So the issue is still present. Is the VC the culprit here?
Pete12345 wrote:
You probably need to take the dust shield off ?
I ended up grinding a bit off the lip to be able to get the bolt in. Finally, this job is done.
Now, to test if the VC has seized.
I’ve reached a big blocker - https://share.icloud.com/photos/0a1OQ5v6pxKKJuteKQutqsADQ
Gilbertd wrote:
The prop may be a simple bolt on job as long as it is phased correctly. The original one had a spline missing on the sliding joint so it would only go together with the UJs correctly phased. Some aftermarket ones didn't have this so could be assembled any way so could be wrong. If you have the version of RAVE that includes the Classic, that has a picture of the correct phasing.
So, I finally was able to grind the nut. It was so awkward as I was protecting my face. I’ve called it a day as my wrist was well worked.
Anyway, yep. I need the one bolt off which means removing the front flange.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/03fNoxtgZp9bIsMIgSSOvL5Eg
Having said that, I require probably half an inch to safely push it out. For tomorrow, is it worth moving the car ever so slightly to find a gap to push the bolt out, or is it as straightforward as using a 30mm socket with my impact gun to remove the bolt and do a quick swap? (I’ll shoot myself in the head if only a breaker bar with work here. I’ll accept defeat and find the nearest garage)
If the latter, my only concern is applying excessive torque with the impact gun, so I’ll use a permanent marker to mark the current bolt position before reapplying the bolt with small incremental taps with the gun.