If, as dave3d says, the M57 is just a development of the M51, I would have thought a diesel to diesel swap would be a lot simpler. But, as I know practically nothing about diesel engines, I may be totally wrong. My idea at some point (once I'm retired) is to put the BMW 4.4 litre V8 from an L322 into a Thor P38. As both engines run the same Bosch Motronic ECU there can't be too many differences, maybe.......
Unfortunately the M51 and M57 ECUs don't have much in common, nor do the engines really. Direct injection vs common rail, variable vane turbo on the M57, completely different autobox communication etc. Sure, they're similar blocks, but that's about it in my opinion.
The BMW 4.4 vs the Rover V8 is also quite a bit different, and can vary further depending on VANOS vs non-VANOS engines. The ECUs are both Motronic, but they're not the same era. Without looking into it, it would be a gamble if the autoboxes talked in a similar format, which is the issue I'm having with the M57 and Thor build auto ECU.
It's like my E60 - that's an M57 engine too. Albeit it is the TU2 version. But the ECU spits data out entirely differently from the original M57 - nothing lined up at all in our tests.
I hope to get back to this next year - I just have too much on the go at the moment. The V8 is holding on at the moment. Bigger irritations are water getting in via various places around the tailgate (and one of the rear load space windows?!) and the passenger blower again...
It did get a wash though the other day :)
M62B44 is light years from the Rover V8 and the L322 used the TU version with VANOS variable valve timing so you'd almost certainly need to use the correct/original ECU which will be CANBUS. You could lock the cams, but that's a bit of a waste.
A nice little challenge for you, Richard!
It's a great engine, I loved the one we had in an E39.
For electric inspiration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGVVioOjCUU
I think you want to be really careful with water getting in the blower. I got the Disco for barely above scrap price because the PO ignored the leak into the blower intake (among other leaks), which corroded the ECU (which his mechanic couldn't seem to troubleshoot).
M62TU in the L322 is hard enough to get running right lol
Locking the Cams is possible, I've used a grub screw on a cheap L322, just drilled into the unit and locked it..
She ran ok.
An M62 without Vanos is pretty sedate, on par with my 4.6 i'd say.
Harv wrote:
I think you want to be really careful with water getting in the blower. I got the Disco for barely above scrap price because the PO ignored the leak into the blower intake (among other leaks), which corroded the ECU (which his mechanic couldn't seem to troubleshoot).
Water getting in through the blowers is a fairly common P38-ism, thankfully they're pretty resilient against harm from it. It's more annoying having a load of water blown down onto the footwell and having wet carpet/insulation issues.
StrangeRover wrote:
M62TU in the L322 is hard enough to get running right lol
Locking the Cams is possible, I've used a grub screw on a cheap L322, just drilled into the unit and locked it..
She ran ok.
An M62 without Vanos is pretty sedate, on par with my 4.6 i'd say.
This is the thing... the Rover V8 is 225hp on paper. The M62 is 280ish I think? And given the L322 weighs a lot more, it doesn't seem like a massive bump in numbers.
Around 280hp yes not too much more than the Thor V8.
The Rover V8's torque comes in rather low down whereas the M62 sees over 3k before any real progress can be made.
M62TUB44 claimed 292bhp @ 5400 and 325lb/ft at 3600 vs 220bhp @ 4750 and 300lb/ft at 2600.
They're very different engines in character. The E39 would waft along quite happily in any gear (being 400kg lighter than a P38) but to make progress you had to change down a gear or two. Not exactly a chore with the nice 6sp manual (although the auto was a bit of a slowpoke) but it was a totally different character of vehicle.
edit: put lb/ft instead of bhp (duh!)
I must admit I've never driven anything with one in - but I'm not ruling having another E39 off the cards at some point. An LPG'd 540i saloon would fit the bill.
sounds nice, but I've driven auto one and I wouldn't recommend. The manuals are rare, but I saw a touring on ebay recently for £15k (in very nice condition)
I like the 5 series and always fancied a 540, just don't like how the front A posts seem to obscure vision a bit.
Any further progress with this project?
Unfortunately not at the moment - everything is quite busy, and I haven't really paid the RR any attention in the last month or so :(
Despite its unhealthy sounding V8, it cracks on when needed without so much as a flat battery, even with a tracker on it ;)
Came across this:
M57 swap into a p38 camper. Looks like he used the manual gearbox. Made his own BECM !
Thats the way to do it.
Gut everything engine side, manual box so you don't have to sort the engine / autobox interface complications needed to get a smooth gear change and a barebones BECM replacement. Just enough to run essential functions. Presumably no over-sophisticated alarm & immobiliser crap.
Simples, well relatively but still shedloads of work.
Clive
That is an amazing work ... wow!
I have been following this thread with interest, as seeing the REAL possibility of being able to make an engine swap worthwhile without ... going crazy. Although I do like the old lump, as is a real workhorse, and I hate complex modern engines (I am doing for the third time a crap Audi V6 30V which has driven me nuts over the last 20K km and plan to be rid of it once I am done), for me to fix the 4.6 and give it a little bit more of ooomph would be very expensive, while I could sort out a M62 for much less, or even better an Audi 4.2 which I am fairly familiar with, but I think it don't fit.
But only if the electronics can be sorted out ... so we wait to see :-)
Most likely I guess will stick to the proven old horse ....
As for the suggestion to swap a M62TU out of a L322, I would not really consider it an easy task, not least because uses a Motronic 7.2 vs. the 5.2.1 of the P38. The M62 (non-VANOS) uses a 5.2. That would be my pick, especially considering VANOS' reputation, which equals that of the P38 lol.
Would be a revvier engine, though.... maybe I will stick to S/C one some day :-)
The M62 isn't a good unit..
:-) did not say it was!
But between that and its TU44 sibling with the dreadful VANOS and the advanced trickery of the ME7.2, I'd stick to the older version of it. In any case, I am not contemplating fitting any of these powerplants ... had a thought, quickly dismissed. Too much hassle (and expense) for too little gain.
We'll open another topic on options to "stimulate" the venerable Rover and give it a little more ooomph
I have considered going for a manual gearbox - it certainly seems a more tried and tested method - but then you lose the wafting about in lazy style of an auto P38...
Plus, having borrowed a manual Transit for a weekend recently, auto is just sooooo much better. Don't get me wrong... if I had another fun to drive car - a manual would be great.
This has more or less taken a seat back in the cupboard beyond the back burner for now sadly. Too much going on with other things... but hopefully I'll get back to it.