Gilbertd wrote:
Isn't this the car you inherited so has an attachment beyond just you like it? I was in a similar situation about 5 years ago. My P38 hit 285k miles, although I had done the headgaskets it really needed a bit more. It was slightly pressurising the cooling system, not enough to spit the coolant out but enough to make the hoses hard, it was leaking oil from just about everywhere and the compression was down to no more than 110 psi. I considered selling it and putting some extra money to it and getting another but then thought about it. As police spec with an odd range of options, very high mileage and a very tired engine, it wouldn't fetch a lot. I had gone through it getting the EAS working properly, done the heater O rings, the blend motors, the door latches, etc so I knew what bits were good and what weren't. Rust isn't a worry in most cases (unless they've lived near the sea) as the chassis is damn good and the only parts of the bodywork that rust are the rear arches, bonnet front edge and, if you are really unlucky the base of the rear lower tailgate. I decided that rather than sell it and buy someone else's problems (they are selling a car for a reason after all) and having to start from scratch again, I'd put the money into mine. £2,100 to V8 Developments gave me an oil tight engine complete with top hat liners, big ends, mains, cam and followers, etc. Two years later, on the instruction of her indoors, it got a respray and East Coast Range Rovers supplied me with a complete (identical) interior, with seats and all interior plastics so I did a mix and match using the best bits from the two sets I had.
It's a case of the devil you know. You know what yours needs, but it doesn't need to all be done at once, whereas buying another you are into uncharted territory. Whining diffs are common but cheap enough for a recon unit from Ashcrofts. My rear has been replaced but even at just short of 400k miles, the rest of the transmission is still original and still working fine.
Aye, the thing is the P38 has soo many issues, i suspect buying any other "cheap" one is just likely to result in another arms length list of jobs. And buying a "sorted" one is likely to be expensive, and still might have issues...
I think i just need to start chipping away at jobs instead of ignoring it all. Start collecting bits to sort the engine, and maybe sort out the front radius arms as a starting point. Ofcourse running it with a "known" gasket issue somehow makes me more anxious than driving it around blissfully unaware haha.
Thanks guys.
leolito wrote:
Aragon son of Arathorn thanks for being so open and frank. I will respond with equal openness, as I take delight in debating these matters, being in a very (very) messy swamp myself, with too many toys to deal with, and will benefit from some advice as well!
Thanks leolito.
The A4 is a long term project. Its a 1.8T Quattro which i've got a 4.2L V8 to swap in. General plan is to get the TT sorted with minimal expense, and run that while i sort the A4, then punt the TT on. I've had the A4 10 years and have no plans to sell.
LEAF as you say is just a daily runner. Cheap, reliable etc.
Its certainly something of a basket case, i paid £300 for it as a non-runner 3 or 4 years ago. Fixed a crank sensor and a few minor bits and it went thru an MOT just fine. The previous owner had spent cash on it sorting various bits (like airbags, compressor etc). However to be fair to it, its never actually left me stranded (although been close a few times with a string of shitty aftermarket crank sensors!). It goes thru MOT's with relative ease, it has working LPG etc etc. For all the bad theres plenty good stuff.
I suspect also, i have a tendancy to want things "right", but the knock on effect is that because of that, i've actually NOT touched many of the P38 bits because i've shied away from the snowballing that will liekly occur. I could just chuck headgaskets into it. BUT its a Rover V8, with an arms length list of stuff that wears out and needs attention. The cars on 190k, but it had a new engine fitted by landrover in ~2000 when it had 100k on it.
The biggest thing that worries me is actually the rust on the rear of the roof..
Gilbertd wrote:
Orange colouration on the plugs is usually a sign that you are burning coolant, which the rusty ends to the base of the plugs would seem to confirm. The oily plug from number 8 would suggest oil getting in there so likely to be valve stem seals. Sounds like a top end refresh is on the cards in a while. The plugs look to be the BKR6E with the smaller hex that would normally only be fitted in the later Thor engine, for an early car you want to be running NGK BPR6ES plugs.
Plug choice does make quite a difference. I worked on one a car few months ago that simply wouldn't start. It would fire sometimes but would also backfire down the exhaust suggesting timing. We spent ages checking (and changing) the crank position sensor and making sure the tags on the flywheel were all there and not bent and the output from it was good and that all the HT leads were in the correct place. Even though it had a brand new set of plugs in it I ended up taking one out to find it was a Denso. Owner had been recommended these by an 'expert' on facebook so had fitted a full set. Pulled them out, fitted NKGs and it fired up first turn of the key.
Yeah the orange puzzled me. I had a google and folk were suggesting "fuel additives", but i guess coolant might well make sense, especially when we add in what looks like rust on the plug. I've suspected a gasket for a while, but it never overheats. Coolant disappears at a fair old rate, but there are loads of external leaks. Oddly i've had a leak on a T piece for the LPG vapouriser that even after brand new hoses, new metal T and new clips, continued leaking. It also only seems to leak when cold. I suppose if theres a leaky gasket it might seal up when warm... Lots of short journeys seem to consume much more water than one long journey.
BKR6E are basically the same as BCPR6ES
NGK say the only difference between K and CP is that the whole plug is slightly shorter. K is the newer "ISO" version of CP:
My Audis use BKR6E so i tend to have them on hand, and the smaller hex makes them easier to get in and out.
Hey guys,
Been having a bit of a think/restructure of my automotive fleet and would appreciate some thoughts.
I had a 90 project in the garage that i've not touched for 6 years. I decided to get shot of it, as it really doesnt fit with having a family now. So thats gone barring some bits and pieces i need to shift. My thinking was that the P38 fits much better as a "family 4x4" than the 90 does. I also had a track car which has sat unloved on the drive since the kids arrived 4 years ago, so i parted that out and got shot of that. I've ended up with a TT convertible (swapped it for another car i ended up with), had planned to give it a quick tidy up and smoke around in it for the summer months, but ofcourse these things always take longer than you plan, so its currently sat with no timing belt waiting for some nice weather to finish it. My other cars are an A4 i've had for years, and a Nissan LEAF which fits the "modern, reliable, keep the wife happy" box. The A4 needs to come off the road for some TLC, but i can use the TT while i do that.
So back to the P38. Its not the cleanest example, but i've done various bits on it over the years to keep it going. However it feels like jobs are mounting up, and its reaching that point where it needs a massive overhaul. I'll try to give a brief summary....
Starting in the engine bay, its had a new radiator, and a new brake accumulator, so thats good. Its also had a sprinkling of new coolant hoses and new LPG injectors and petrol injectors. However the engine itself is a sieve. It leaks coolant from the front timing case, inlet manifold, various hose fittings and the LPG vapouriser leaks from its central gasket. The PAS line is rusty and seeps fluid from the swaged joint. The engine oil cooler is also leaky. The engine also leaks oil from everywhere, front and rear oil seals, sump gasket etc etc.It also burns a bit of oil, a hard rev after starting it (when the cats are still cold) will get a nice cloud of blue smoke, and it fouls spark plug 8 quite badly... AC system worked until all the gas leaked from the ORings on the compressor, the condenser looks pretty wrecked though.
Underneath, i fitted new balljoints to the front axle, and its had the brake disks/pads/calipers done all round. I've also done the front shocks. But its needing bushes all round as it drives like a pig. It also has an appetite for axle end oil seals, presumably because the balljoints arent properly centred any more. It probably wants brake hoses, and the brake lines themselves have been replaced previously by a blind monkey, so while they work, they're a bit shonky. Rear axle i think has pinion issues, its a bit noisey on overrun, but hasnt really gotten any worse in the years i've had it. Air suspension all works as it should, Infact its one of the things thats worked perfectly since i bought the car. I did have to replace a height sensor but otherwise its sound.
Moving inside, the headliners knackered, but i've got a kit to sort it out. Various bits of trim are iffy but everything does work. Climate control knob is a bit finicky. Remote locking doesnt work which is infuriating especially after i spent money on the remote filter kit from the guys on here. Cruise control works fine after i replaced the hose. Grey leather is in reasonable nick, though i really fancy some Tan leather for it, have rage with myself that i didnt pick up the interior i saw at U Pull It some years ago.
Exterior is varied. The wife smashed the front bumper, so i got a new one nicely resprayed for it. The rear tailgate was rotten so again i got a nice one all painted up. The upper tailgate is a rusty mess though, and theres a horrible patch of rust at the rear of the roof panel where it meets the tailgate thats particularly worrying. Additionally, it originally had the light guards fitted, which have since been removed but have left holes (and broken off rivnuts) in the rear quarter panels. A couple of the doors could do with replacing, and a lot of the black trim really wants replaced and/or painted.
Theres probably more, but i figure you get the idea. And i'm kinda stuck. The engine clearly needs sorted. And it feels like one of those jobs that basiaclly ends up with a almost complete rebuild... By the time its out and you've got the sump and timing case off to sort those gaskets, you might as well pull the heads and sort those out... with the heads off and timing case off, it probably wants a new camshaft and associated parts... and then, once stripped to that point, do you reassemble the block and hope the liners dont move? Theres also the cylinder 8 issue... It could just be valve stem seals and thus fixed in the head rebuild, but if its piston/bore related then its highly likely at that point its needing liners and basically a complete rebuild. And that feels like a LOT of money to be pouring into an old car, even if i can do all the work myself... and i know once i start the job, i wont want to half-arse it back together with known faults... It also needs all the pipework sorted and a new oil cooler rad, stuff that can be awkward and expensive to source.
Mechanically, its not tooo bad, if i can get a spare set of radius arms i can get the bushes swapped out in my spare time and i can probably tidy up the brake lines (though i do hate working on those!). Rear axle i'll probably jsut ignore unless it gets worse, but it probably wants rear radius arm bushes and rear shocks.
The bodywork is a sticking point, i dont like working on body, and i feel tarting up the exteriors the last job that really should be done when all the other stuff is busted. But putting a lot of money into a rotten shell also makes no sense?!
I sometimes wonder, should i try to find a better one? But knowing these cars, the question is then, am i better with the one i know, rather than potentially buying into a whole host of new issues? If i do plan on keeping this one, then i need to start sorting stuff thats actually broken, rather than just ignoring it. But its difficult to figure out what to do... Thoughts much appreciated!
The engine in the old bus isnt the healthiest. It leaks every fluid imaginable, but runs acceptably well that it just sort of gets ignored and soldiers on.
Its always started missing a few cylinders, but they all seem to come alive after a few seconds and a bit of RPM.
It leaks coolant from various places, and i so slightly suspect a headgasket issue as it seems to pressurise the hoses pretty quickly (and they often stay pressurised) but it doesnt over heat and will do hundreds of miles without issue. Its always been like that since i've had it. Again, works well enough that i dont want to start fiddling.
Cylinder 8 also always fouls its spark plugs, they end up crusted with oily deposits.
So thats the background. Last week i was taking an old car to the scrap man, so she was pulling probably 2 tonnes of trailer. It felt a bit flat, but i wasnt really beating on it and just taking it easy trundling up the duallie at 50. However once i got to the yard (about 5 miles away) it was clear it was idling dog rough. RPMs were down below 500, and it sounded like crap. Revving it, it sounded like an old aircooled beetle. Clearly some cylinders not happy.
Got offloaded and drove home and it was clearly unhappy, missfiring badly at low rpm pulling away and down on power. I knew i had some spark plugs on the shelf so i decided to change them. Unfortunately what i actually had was 3 new plugs, and 5 used ones (no idea!). So i installed the new plugs in cylinders 8, 6 and 4, figuring it might be the fouled plug that was causing issues, and gave it a try. Still missfiring as bad as ever so i gave up and ordered 5 new plugs.
Plugs came today, so i swapped the remaining 5 out, and went for a test drive... And its fixed. Hurray? I dont know. The plugs that came out looked perfectly serviceable, so currently i have no idea wether its just a coincidence or the problem is actually sorted. I guess some more miles needed to tell.
However, i noticed that theres vast differences between the plugs in terms of the deposits, so i took some photos:
Starting with bank 2, plugs 4 and 6 look ok i think? 8 is obviously fouled, but then 2 is very strange, pale and minimal deposits.
Moving to bank 1, plugs 1 and 3 have odd orange coloration to their ceramic insulators, perhaps a touch rich? 1 also has weird deposits or maybe corrosion around the base of the plug thread? 5 is almost normal? 7 looks lean/hot, perhaps a bit like 2 from the other bank.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. None of these plugs look bad enough to cause a missfire, with the exception of 8, but swapping that out didnt fix it. The varying plug condition also makes me wonder whats going on here.
another 100 miles yesterday and no issues at all....
I hate problems that fix themselves :(
yeh i looked at the table, and like roman says, it doesnt make much sense. For P to show as 2 that requires Z to be stuck at 0, For drive to show as 3, that requires X to be stuck at 0. But neutral works and that requires both Z and X to be set to 1...
She says it said Gearbox Fault when she went out in the afternoon, and wouldnt move in D at all until she cycled it thru all the gears, and then it worked. Shes just got back in to come home and its all back to normal with gears showing correctly and the gearbox fault message has gone.
Yey.
Quick clip of her shifting:
You can see P = 2, N works, Reverse and drive seem to show 3. 1st seems to show 2 as well.
Oh, and it happily starts in P with "2" showing on the gate.
Wifes out driving the car today, sent me a video showing the gear selection acting really oddly.
The lights dont line up with whats selected, and they jump about a bit randomly as you cycle thru the gears.
I presume theres some sort of position switch involved here? Where about is it likely to be and is it likely just a bad switch or potential wiring issues?
It does seem to be driving properly by all accounts despite drive and reverse both showing "3", and its also starting just fine, despite Park showing "2"
Cheers
BrianH wrote:
If its leaking coolant from the vapouriser, theres every chance its also leaking coolant directly into the intake manifold via the vacuum connection. IT would still be able to do so whilst running on petrol as that side of the system is not shut off when its on petrol (as if its working properly all it should be doing is pulling on the diapgraghm so no problem there).
All the other leaks to me suggest you have too much pressure in the cooling system for some reason - this can be down to gas leaking from the vapouriser into the coolant.
If you want to test that further, bypass the vapouriser on the water circuit (connect the two coolant hoses running together to each other) and run it on petrol.
Good point on the vac line didnt think of that. Like i say, once its run for a minute or so, it drives fine, LPG works as it should etc. Did 150 miles in it at the weekend with no probs at all.
It just seems to leak from everywhere. So perhaps there is some pressure getting into the coolant system from somewhere?
it runs sweet on LPG tbh... so while the things leaking externally, i guess its probably fine inside. Still needs replaced though!
It might have just been a combination of short journeys filling the exhaust with moisture, and yes, it is a stainless system after the cats.
But that doesnt explain the lack of willingness to rev or the black smoke.
It definitely burns oil at times, but that has a particular smell and thats not what i experienced here. The oil level is right on the minimum, because the sump leaks like a sieve if i fill it up to the max line :P This "smoke" was definitely water vapour/steam.
Interesting point from Simon on water in the LPG circuit, the LPG vaporiser certainly leaks coolant and its on my lsit of things that needs fixed. However on startup it was running on petrol and hadnt got warm enough to open the LPG valves, so i dont think its that in this case?
I made a video of a normal startup, unfortunately the audio quality isnt great and i'm not sure it really adds anything, as its not indicative of what it did last week, and its always done this on startup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSinJdHjfv0&feature=youtu.be
As for the water consumption, it definitely leaks, from multiple locations. Front timing case (usual spot at the top corner) and inlet manifold (big fitting that goes to the heater matrix) both seem to leak coolant from time to time, but it comes and goes. Similarly one of the T pieces on the LPG coolant leaks despite me replacing the Tee, the hose and all the clips...
I still need to pull the plugs, the weather has been awful so i've not managed it. I think i'll just buy it a new set while i'm there.
I've seen black smoke before with a failing MAF sensor, but that didnt clear, it just stayed and wouldnt go at all until i replaced the MAF.
I mean, the engine really needs to come out for some TLC, but i'm not rebuilding a rover V8 on my driveway in the middle of winter if i can avoid it :P
Will need to check the plugs and look for signs of water.
Wife took it into town and filled it with lpg the other day, and we've done 85 miles today with no recurrence of the weirdness.
Much strange!
So my old bus has always started lumpy.
It'll fire up with some cylinders missing, which is especially noticeable if you try to rev it up immediately after starting. If you just leave it alone, chuck it in reverse and back out the driveway, by the time you select drive and pull away its usually got all 8 firing just fine. Alternatively if you bring the revs up to say 2000rpm and just hold it there, you can hear it sort of sort itself out and the cylinders come online.
So cue the other day, i go out and start it at lunch time, after it having sat for best part of two weeks. It started, but sounded REALLY unhappy, like half the cylinders were missing. I tried to rev it up a bit, and the throttle was unresponsive, RPM's were super low and oil pressure light was on. Mashed the throttle a bit more and eventually the revs picked up a wee bit and oil pressure warning eventually went out but it was stumbling and generally running like absolute crap. It was about this point i realised it was pouring white smoke out the exhaust like a steam train.
Wondered if it had done a head gasket or something, but i had kids to collect from nursery up the road, so decided to drive it and see what would happen. Revved it some more to try and "clear" it up, and managed to fill most of the driveway with smoke, but it picked up a few cylinders and was now actually responding to throttle, so i set off.
By the end of the street it was running more or less normally, exhaust still appeared steamey, but its cold and well, not entirely unexpected given conditions etc.
Drove to nursery fine (perhaps a mile max), went in and got kid, and came back out, checked the coolant level which was low but ok (it leaks so its often low). This time it fired up easily and drove off without a problem. Drove to the sports center with no issues. Parked for an hour and a bit while in the sports centre.
When i came out of the sports centre, turned the key and it started, and again, wouldnt respond to the throttle, and this time was belching black smoke out the back... However after 5 or 10 seconds it sorted itself out and i drove home. Coolant level was still the same when i got home, so no massive water consumption.
So at this point i'm thinking head gasket or slipped liner or something... And its fixed itself...
Driven it multiple times since then with no issues whatsoever...
Any ideas?
My experience of buying "Lucas" stuff recently is that its utter garbage. As an example i've been thru four crank sensors on my GEMS. The original chinese cheapy one that the PO fitted, one in a Lucas box and one in a Facet (i think) box, all looked identical. Clearly from the same chinese factory and all failed within a few months in the same way, losing signal when hot.
In the end i found a new old stock Rover part that came in an LDV box, and it looked quite different to the three chinesium ones, as well as actually working correctly.
I'm fairly sure at this point its just a box/brand thats rebadging chinese junk.
yeh, speed nuts is the name.
Like i say the ones on the metal bit are standard, and i'm sure i have a box of them in different sizes.
But the ones on the plastic are much larger than normal and are thick to go around the plastic frame. Normal ones that size would take a much larger screw, which is why i was thinking they were application specific.
The releif valve is in use all the time, and bypasses oil back to the sump.
The oil pump is fixed displacement, but pressure varies with viscosity as well as flow. So for instance at high rpm, the releif valve opens and bypasses the excess oil back to the sump. Or when the engines cold and oil is thick, it could well be operating from idle.
Every engine differs, and i dont know the exact figures for the rover V8, but on my Audi A4 for instance, a healthy engine will reach maximum oil pressure at around 3000rpm when fully warmed up, and when cold maximum pressure occurs at not much more than idle.
The valve can stick partially open, giving symptoms like you describe.
Hi folks,
I've just fitted a new bumper to the rangey, and i've managed to break some of the nut-clip things that hold the foglights on (old and rusty!)
I would like to get some new nut-clips. The two that clip onto the metal beam at the top look pretty standard, i've properly got a box of them somewhere. But the ones that clip onto the foglights themselves for the lower fixings look a bit special.
I've tried to find them on the lrcat thing, but i just cant find them. Maybe they just come with the foglights? But i've noticed the blanking covers that go in instead of fogs dont come with the nut-clips (various places sell them new, and they clearly arent included in the product pictures, so that would imply they do come seperately.
Anyone know the part number?
Cheers
Kev
A lot of trailer instability issues comes down to nose weight. Most cars have a limit of between 75 and 100kgs on the towball. Simply looking at many cars towing, with the arse of the car scraping the floor, shows they're running waaay over that. If you stand on the towball of a typical car the suspension barely moves.
Obviously something with air suspension doesnt sag down at the back, but excessive nose weight still has the same effect, and gives the shocks on the rear of the tow car a much harder job to do.
I have a big car trailer which i use for my track car, its well under the weight limit, but even so, i actually got a set of scales out and carefully positioned the car to achieve the right nose weight, then marked the trailer bed so i know where to park it. I see many car transporters loaded with the car right against the front of the trailer, and this is almost certainly far too much nose weight. Most cars are front heavy, and assuming they're driven forwards onto the trailer, the car usually wants to be positioned fairly rearward on the trailer.so the weight is centred over the axles.
Interestingly enough, i used to tow with a short wheelbase trooper, and that was MORE stable than the rangey is currently, which i suspect is 100% down to the condition of the rear shocks. The trooper being shorter and lighter should be inherently less stable than the rangey. But the trooper had new shocks fitted when i bought it, the rangey is on ancient rear shocks. Yet another item on the list of stuff to fix!