Helped a mate change the engine in a the Escort van by standing on the wings with a simple doubled rope sling between us to lift it in and out. Certain care needed when scrambling off and on. Hooking the gearbox on with out bending owt needed a jack and considerable verbal encouragement. All removal and installation done between tea and supper. Say 4 hours.
Took the body off a Reliant Regal as the being the quickest and easiest way to do a swop by myself with no lifting gear. Easily light enough to manhandle solo.
Six pot Triumph out of a GT6 was challenging on my own without lifting gear. Bonnet off, everything in front out of the way and a monster skateboard style platform did the deed once I'd figured how to get engine, gearbox and overdrive over the front of the chassis without ripping the steering off. Stage 1 tune probably wasn't the best idea even though it was a MK2 with some pretence at handling.
Clive
Finally all back together this morning with second hand steering box fitted. Naturally I overfilled the power steering reservoir and kept level too high during initial running. Air came out with some impressive gulps and wheezes spraying red Dextron foam all over the left hand inner wing area. But it works.
Replacement box gives lighter steering than the old one so I suspect there was trouble coming anyway. In retrospect better for it to do the sit down strike thing in the middle of a servicing job than in the middle of the motorway. My old box is going off for re-con. Maybe re-fit next year or maybe not. Don't like running on something that vital of unknown history. LR Direct say that I should get refund on that new one once its been examined. We shall see.
Connected the steering up a spline or two out so the U-J comes out tomorrow to be re-set. All cleaned up and copper slipped when I slid it back together so thought it will come out easy. Really. Got back from shopping at 4 pm this afternoon, "only take half an hour so I'll do it now". Optimist. Doesn't want to shift. Par for the course on this job it seems.
Decided to change the brake pressure accumulator whilst things were de-pressurised. Intended to do that when I did the brakes but didn't have time due to limited availability of assistant for bleeding. About the easiest job on a P38! Right! Snapped my strap wrench trying to undo the old one. Eventually found a slim AF spanner that would slip on the hex at the bottom to undo it. 10 minutes later job done. Really needs a bent spanner to slip in easily. Time to root round the boot fairs for a candidate to be thinned and modified. May never do the job again but if I do I want it to be easy.
Clive
The saga continues.
Finally got the steering arm off on Monday night. Wound the screw pusher into the heavy duty balljoint splitter Friday night after 12 ton ram had leaked back. Couple of decent heating cycles with a big propane torch over the weekend along with anointments of PlusGas. About 9 pm Sunday it got another tweak and a couple mighty whacks on the splitter with a club hammer. Jumped apart on the second one. Yay. Result.
As a backstop I'd ordered a second hand one just in case the arm wouldn't come off. Arrived on Tuesday after I'd got back from buying Dowty seals having received an E-Mail from Craddocks said they couldn't supply the 14 mm ones and would have to order them in special. Whats with these people. 3 working days to tell me they hadn't got them. So used to not being able to get stuff round here that I'd forgotten that there is hydraulics place next town over who stock such things. 50 pence each + twenty miles on the bike. So I got ten in both sizes. Annoying that I'll be stuffed best part of £40 for OEM ones I don't need but such is life.
Just to make life interesting one of the bolts holding the washer bottle in had snapped off in it's welded on nut thingy. So I got the pleasure of drilling all that out. Naturally things didn't go straight so a Timesert thread insert wasn't gonna fly. Made up a 1/2" x 20 tpi UNF insert, tapped it 8 mm, loctited it in place with an 8 mm aircraft quality button head allen bolt running in from t'other side so one of the washer tank fixings is now a stud. She'll do.
Went to fit the new steering box this afternoon and the centralising indicator position didn't look right. An hours worth of playing measuring, counting turns interspersed with mutterings of the "But its a brand new ZF unit!" type I finally concluded that the indicator was indeed about 1/3 rd of turn out. Probably just been fitted wrong but I'm not messing about with a brand new unit. Called LR Direct and they were remarkably helpful considering its not their fault. They've made arrangements to have it picked up on Friday, it will go back to Britpart for examination and I should get my money back sometime next month.
Should've listened to Richard and just got a second hand one in the first place. Still the used one is on now. Steering column to connect up tomorrow and everything to torque down before its all fixed. I hope. I shall get mine re-conditioned in due course and put it back as I know its history.
Clive
Axle stands sounds a good idea. Easiest to pre set them so the chassis will be at normal height or just above then raise the car on the suspension, push the stands underneath and drop the suspension down. If you've not got suitable stands I'm impressed with the 2 pairs of 6 ton rated ratchet type I got off E-Bay. Came in Wolf branded boxes. About the cheapest ones with locking pin but still decently made with nice big feet. Managed to find some rubber caps for the forks too. Got the 6 ton ones because they are tall enough for working under the car.
If its acceptable to close off the ends of the car port hanging a loosely fitted tarpaulin each end makes big difference to protection. Laced side and top with gaps so the air can vent alongside the car.
Clive
no10chris wrote:
If I remember correctly, we used a big hammer, ball joint splitter, and a fork splitter,
It’s been on there a while, I’d give it some plusgas, let it soak then a few good pneumatic shocks should do the job.
Otherwise I’m wondering if a plate surrounding it and a 2 leg pulled should do the same as the proper puller
Hooked the 12 ton ram puller on via the big flat bearing puller plate both cold and heated with a medium size Sievert propane torch. Which didn't do owt except bend the connecting studs and also the joining studs (5/8" diameter) of the bearing pulling plate. Ooops! Cant hammer on a hydraulic puller. Currently sat there done up as hard as it will go using the three legged set up. Well anointed with PlusGas of course. At least its centralised and pulling straight
Not thought of ball joint splitter. That 12 ton ram also goes in a heavy duty lever type ball joint splitter. Probably about 3 or 4 times force multiplication and you can smack it with a hammer so think I'll try that before spending some quality lathe time.
Fork splitters are not my favourite tools. Significant risk of bending and lots of effort lost in sliding. Reckon that as what got me into trouble with the drag link. Heat, lever puller and good smack shifted that.
Clive.
Redraptor141
Thanks for the advice. I'm usually pretty gung ho about trying to fix things but I'm none to sure if venturing deep into the hydraulics of power assisted steering is a good idea for someone with limited experience in hydraulics. Seals and such like yes. Valves, seatings springs et al not so sure given the specific failure and lack of test gear. Two tons of P38 suddenly deciding its not turning right at motorway speeds could be .... terrifying...at best!
Looking at the sectional diagram in RAVE I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is. There is a bypass valve in the piston head open circuiting the power assistance just before the steering goes to full lock so the last bit of movement up to the locksteps is manual only. So if the steering is set right its nigh on impossible to hit the stops! The valve comprises a pair of balls sprung loaded apart in the piston head which are pushed by pins as full lock is approached. One pin in the body whose protrusion is set by screw adjustment and the other on the end of the recirculating ball screw worm. My diagnosis is that when dealing with the drag link, which really, really didn't want to come off the drop arm I pulled the steering right over to the end of the right hand travel so the ball got pushed further than it had ever been before and got stuck. One of those shouldn't ever happen but did things.
Right hand lock valve seems to be the one pushed by the pin on the end of the worm screw. So theoretically pulling the body mounted pin, pushing a slim drift in and tapping the other ball ought to shift the stuck ball. If that actually is the problem! Could also muck things up good and proper by coil binding the spring, podging up the seats or even worse. Not going there!
Anyway I have this brand new Britpart steering box to go on when I can get the steering arm off mine. Twelve ton ram in the puller set isn't working so this weekends job is to replicate the Sykes Pickavant screw pusher assembly with internal drive rod https://www.sykes-pickavant.com/products/suspension-tools/ball-joint-removal/1579 and put that in the puller kit.
Interestingly the Britpart pattern steering box has a ZF Made in Germany label so quality should be up to scratch.
Clive
RutlandRover
Spotted that one. Out of stock, have to send mine off to be fixed. Claim 2 or 3 working days after they get it.
Chris
Nope, bought new Britpart from LR Direct as fastest way of getting something that ought to be good enough. Hoping that I have what it needs to shift the arm.
So far not my month for good decisions so fingers crossed!
Clive
Desperation purchase I'm afraid. Can't be impossibly bad or none of the reliable suppliers would list them. Soon as its in mine is going off for rebuild then I'll swop back.
No luck in finding any used ones that were confirmed to be from a low mileage car. Seriously tempted to pull the top off and investigate mine once its off. Not exactly complex on the hydraulics end after all and the problem is almost certainly a jammed spool valve.
Hate being backed into doing the wrong thing but car has to be up'n running by Monday. Just another thing gone wrong over a crap week.
Clive
Oh bum. Its Britpart or bust!
Chasing round this morning and P38 steering boxes seem to be very thin on the ground. All I can find ex stock are Britpart pattern or used "think it works OK" quality from breakers. LR Direct have best price for Britpart £456 including tax but no seals or arm lock-washer. Seals & lock washer are another £44.00 from Britcar who seem to be the only people listing them for fast supply. £500 for a steering box I'm not sure I can trust.
Guess mine goes off for recon as soon as I've got it changed.
Not the best of weekends.
Clive
Unless the power assistance system is on the way out or the damper is silly stiff you won't notice any difference at the wheel. Force you feel at the wheel is set by the internal torsion bar in the box connecting the steering column and worm. The bar twists when you turn the steering to open the appropriate spool valve to provide hydraulic assistance. Spool valve opening is proportionate to torsion bar twist. For all practical purposes the power steering system keeps the force at the wheel constant. If the actual load on the other end is greater then the bar will twist a smidgin more which theoretically means a bit more turn on the steering wheel but good luck with detecting that.
Steering damper is provided to control movement when loads on the steering change suddenly. Like one wheel on nice dry pavement and one falling into loose sand. Limits the rate of movement whilst the torsion bar twist and internal damping in the hydraulic system sort themselves out. Its dynamic, rate of change damping more than static force that is important. Bigger tube and more oil in the Terrafirma version just means it can work longer and harder without getting so warm that damping goes to pot.
Might matter to Baja or Paris Dakar types. But, as usual with most fashionable performance upgrades, the gains are where normal people never go. So long as basic build quality is up to scratch can't see any downside.
Clive
OldShep
Thanks for the steer. Nice to have recommendations for known reliable suppliers.
Chris
Know the feeling, I gotta thin things down a bit too. Shift some old bike stuff so there is room for Rangie stuff.
If I go used probably see what the local P38 breaker over Crawley has first. E-Bay can be minefield but always a few to be found.
Britcar have refurbished exchange units by EAC which claim to be OEM, presumably the folk who do the factory ones for Land Rover, at £285 + VAT once you have reclaimed the surcharge. Looks to be as good a deal as any from a reliable supplier. But refurbs can be found for half that on E-Bay.
Clive
Chris
Great offer. Thanks.
Had another quick play this morning. Definitely no power assistance turning right. Turning left is as it should be so pretty much confirms steering box fault. So probably best to change it.
Choice seems to be used, recon, new pattern (um looks to be Britpart, so that will be a no then) or brand new at a price that which will make the credit card scream in agony.
Clive
Brian
Steering damper would be just too easy! Its fine. With the wheels off the ground steering moves both ways easily albeit perhaps marginally heavier and less smoothly going right.
Try to drive it and there is clearly no power assistance when turning to right. Just possible to muscle it round near to right lock in the space available on my drive. Swings back left smooth and easy just as it should.
Far as I can see its got to be either trapped air or spool valve not opening.
Maybe a full drain and oil change would help.
Clive
Ready for road test after all brake work and find the steering is very stiff when trying to turn right. Turning left is fine but going right wards feels like there is no power assistance. Is it simply air in the PAS system needing bleeding out or is it more serious.
Quickly lifted it on the jack and checked that everything turns fine both ways with the wheels off the ground. Sat front axle on stands and twirling back and forth with pump running in the hope of shifting any air. Feels slightly heavier going rightwards but hard to tell if thats meaningful. Opening bleed nipple on steering box gives an ooze of oil. Is this right or should it gush!
About the only cause I can think of its that I had the steering well to the right when removing the old drag link. Which was very stubborn and had to be hit to shift it. Not something I like doing but I wanted finish replacing all the steering swivels this year as everything was showing wear. Could be coincidence and steering about to go wrong I suppose.
Saturday shop by motorcycle now!
Clive
OK. Late night panic over.
Spent some quality time underneath with a wire brush and vernier gauges. Turns out hexagons on the short garage made pipes are non standard sizes. Mostly 9 mm A/F but the worst one is 1/8 whitworth albeit rather battered where a metric open end has been used. The 9 mm ones have suffered from open ended spanners but re-making the short pipes with proper sizes will be easy so I'll probably cut the pipe and call it done.
Turned out that long pipes are in kunifer with 10 mm A/F tube nuts. Not perfect, fitted with an open end again, but proper brake pipe spanner fits well enough so should undo without having to destroy the pipe as I feared last night.
Time to invest in some more good brake pipe spanners.
Clive
You're not kidding. Stainless is bloody expensive. £5.25 a pop from Automec, slightly better at £17.25 for four from BGC. By my count I'll need 8 so thats £48 or £35. If I had a set of M10x1 chasers for my coventry die head making them would be a no brainer as 11 mm stainless hex is under £15 a metre. But chaser sets are £60 - £70 so I'd need to go into production.
Don't trust the economy range gold tinted sheradised ones. Look to be what was on the garage made short pipes fitted 4 years ago whose hexagons have corroded beyond redemption.
Thanks for finding sources and for size details.
Clive
Well the grand fix the brakes up properly in one hit project has well and truly hit the buffers. All the hexagons on the solid pipe connectors at the rear are severely rusted. Probably not gonna come undone, especially if the same gorilla who overtightened the front ones did the installation. Even if they do come off they certainly aren't going back.
For now flexi pipes and hard pipes are OK so I'll make do with just changing the callipers but something will need to be done in due course. (Which will be after I've got my lift installed for decent working room underneath in an indoor environment.) Looks like the long twin pipes from the booster for my year 2000 car can still be got OEM at about £230 (ouch) but supply of the short ones looks iffy.
Is there a reliable pattern supplier or is it a case of roll your own with Kunifer, flanging tool and a set of screwed unions? I have the tools and enough experience so no issue with DIY if need be. Ready made is easier tho'.
If DIY is the only way to go who does proper Kunifer at a decent price. Last lot I got from a factor was ordinary copper, and too thin at that. Remonstrating with the supplier basically got a shrug "All same stuff innit". Annoying but I didn't get it for brake lines anyway so no great issue. Obviously I want all the fittings in stock before I start so who is a good source for the male screw fittings and are they all same size and threads? Presumably stainless is the best material for the threaded couplings. The short pipes on mine were garage replaced shortly after I got it so only 4 years or so for the hexagons to corrode away. Not good.
About 20 years since I last did a hard pipe replacement DIY style so I'm way out of touch with the market.
Clive
Confirms my worst fears!
When the official Sykes Pickavant made tool has both a monster force screw and provision for walloping the end with a big hammer you know a battle is normal https://primetools.co.uk/product/sykes-pickavant-05050000-land-rover-drop-arm-puller/ . Don't think the weedy Laser / Bearmach et al style offering has much chance unless the car has spent its life in one of the heated motor houses specified by Mr Bugatti.
Am I feeling brave enough to chop the ball joint stem on the car, hook up the 12 ton hydraulic puller, wind it up good'n tight and heat the beast until the taper slackens. At least the swivels are in now, lower one shot as usual, and only got the lock stop to re-make before thats all up together again.
Maybe I'll finish the brake job first before the weather goes. Which was all I intended to do in first place but I had all the other bits waiting ....
Sunshine in October can really mess with your head.
Clive
Drag link ball joint taper is well and truly stuck in the steering drop link. Even a 12 ton ram operated separator won't budge it! Failed removal always abuses things in greater or lesser degree so, even though it was OK before its now got to be done. Whole link is well rusty and seal on wheel end joint is pretty manky too.
Looks like the only way its coming off will be to take the steering drop link off complete with drag link and get medieval with it in the work shop. If I show it the angle grinder and chop ball off the stem so as to have a straight push with the shop press it ought to go.
$64,000 question is how much of battle is it to get the steering drop link off and back on correctly. Do you need a special puller? Official Land Rover device is "impressive" in both price and appearance. Bearmach sell a fairly weedy looking alternative. I can make something to take a 12 ton ram that should be effective.
Clive
dave3d
Great minds think alike and all that jazz. Excellent idea and well worth trying if the sensor is tight, but not too tight. Made similar back in the summer when I did my drivers side swivels. Naturally had to be fancy and over think things by starting with a sheet metal spanner out of some self assembly thingy saved into the "might be useful" box. Bridgeport made short work of opening out to 16 mm with inch (ish) long forks and putting a taper on the end 'cos basic spanner was too thick to go in. Theory being that tapping in would lever up the sensor as it ran over the taper. Didn't work out. Stretched the sensor body to the point where it started to snap. Same thing today doing the passenger side ones. Oh well.
Chopped the protruding end of the sensor off first thing this afternoon with a multi-tool saw so the hub can come out of the swivel without the sensor arguing with the shield. Now there's optimism for you. Bolted a scrap rear brake disk on inside out and two hours of bashing has had no effect. Rain forecast tomorrow so i get to rest up. Suggestions for effective and less agricultural methods gratefully received.
No wonder the drivers side ABS sensor didn't shift back in the summer. Ended up having to cut the sensor out of the carrier thingy and cut that out of the hub. So solidly glued that it wouldn't even collapse. Clearly assembled dry without the lubrication stuff. Expecting same battle with the remains of the nearside one.
Off over t'workshop now to draw up an adapter so my 12 ton hydraulic taper splitter will fit the steering box end of the drag link. Just laughs at the ordinary screw one which managed the the swivel end. Impressive bang!
How do folks without on site machine shop facilities manage when things turn stubborn?
Clive.