Wow! Congratulations to you both!

I haven't checked this forum for a few weeks, seems quite a lot has happened...

Great picture.

Gilbertd wrote:

Lpgc wrote:

If a starter motor is drawing more amps than usual (to dim lights etc), where is that power going (and why) if it isn't converted to magnetic power / torque to spin the engine?

It's converted to heat. A dodgy starter has more resistance (due to the additional resistance between brushes and commutator) so it gets very hot.

I would agree, but the extra resistance should mean it can't draw as many amps from the battery causing the lights to dim more than usual

A warm engine is easier to crank than a cold engine, so if it cranks easier when cold it points to something else starter motor / electrics related being negatively affected by warm temperatures.

If a starter motor is drawing more amps than usual (to dim lights etc), where is that power going (and why) if it isn't converted to magnetic power / torque to spin the engine?

If you're getting lean error codes and are not sure whether the fault is lambda sensor of MAF related but the engine generally seems to run OK, try reading lambda voltage while doing a few 'tip-ins' (quick blips of the throttle). If the lambda readings show a temporary rich mixture just after the tip-ins it points away from the lambda sensor being at fault. The tip-in test is possible because during such tip-in's the mixture is supposed to go richer than under normal engine running conditions, i.e. near full throttle is a special condition during which mixture is supposed to get richer than the lambda sensors can measure, the lambda sensors may max out at around 0.9v.

More likely 1 fault than 2 faults. If P1171 points to both cylinder banks lean mixture, and the lean mixture readings are due to lambda sensor issues, both lambda sensors would have failed. Or just 1 MAF sensor.

I'm not saying the fault is the MAF, I've seen plenty P38's with 2 failed lambda sensors but also plenty with failed MAF or other problems.

A misfire (due to many causes) can cause lambda sensors to give lean signal, lambda sensors measure oxygen in exhaust gas, a misfiring cylinder pumps air and fuel into the exhaust but the lambda sensor doesn't notice the fuel... unless it burns in the exhaust with the excess air before it reaches the lambda sensor. Lambda sensors need to be hot to work properly so have an inbuilt heater element, if t he heater doesn't work the sensor will give correct signal when it is hot enough (heated by the exhaust gasses) and lean signal when it is too cool to work properly.

Unless the fault is gearbox related it won't only happen in 4th gear, it's just that the fault generally occurs during the engine load conditions you apply in 4th gear. To the engine 2500rpm at 3/4 throttle is the same load regardless of what gear you're in (with a few exceptions such as if rpms are accelerating/decelerating). With this in mind, if an engine fault definitely only occurs in a certain gear, on some vehicles indeed the problem could be gearbox related. On some vehicles the transmission computer can tell the engine computer to decrease torque to aid smooth gear shifting or lessen the load on transmission clutches during the shift, particularly if the throttle isn't fly-by-wire such torque reduction is often done by momentarily retarding ignition timing.

I once had new PAS lines for a Merc ML made up by Pirtek, it cost much less than buying new lines from Ebay or a Merc dealer and I had them make the lines a couple of inches longer than the broken originals to make routing and re-connecting a bit easier.

Agreed with Gilbert.

In recent years I've converted hundreds of Nissan Elgrands, many owners get me to change the spark plugs while I'm at it. Changing the plugs I can get a view through the plug hole into the cylinder, when they come in the piston crowns are always black but after a while of running on LPG they're clean. I avoid running my car on petrol as much as possible, not only for the cost savings of running on LPG but also because if I only run on LPG the oil stays clean between changes.

I have gas delivered to home in 47kg bottles, prices vary but it costs me £79.50 for a 47kg (92 litre) bottle exchange with free delivery. I sell pumps that pump it out of a bottle into the car tank.

The only LPG wiring necessary to connect to original vehicle wiring are the petrol injector break wires and the ignition on wire. There are 16 LPG system petrol injector break wires, each of the 8 original petrol injector wires are cut and an injector break wire connects to each side of the cut. The ignition on wire is usually connected to the positive wire at one of the petrol injectors. There's no connection to TPS, there might be a connection to one or both of the front lambda sensor signal wires but (if so) this will just be a connection (the lambda wire won't be cut). Depending on which AC Stag ECU is fitted (and maybe which installer and how it is set up) there may be a wire connected to a coil pack. Then of course the LPG system needs a power supply so is usually connected directly to the battery. All the other LPG system wires are separate to original vehicle wiring.

Often the injector break wiring is connected close to the petrol injectors, especially on a Thor. On a Gems the injector break wiring might be near petrol injectors or might be near the petrol ECU since on Gems the ECU and it's harness are handy to access near the battery.

Wherever the petrol injector break wiring is connected it is easy to see which original wires were cut. For starters the original petrol injector wires that were cut are a different colour to each petrol injector, so you can match up and reconnect them on that basis. Secondly the 16 LPG system wires that are connected to petrol injector wiring are 8 different coloured pairs of wires, one of each pair is a solid colour, the other of the pair is the same colour with a black stripe, so even if petrol injector wires were all the same colour you could re-match and re-connect petrol injector wires on that basis.

No need to even fully disconnect the (red) ignition on wire, you could just cut that and isolate it, same with any wires connected to lambda sensors.

Why are you removing it @Strangerover?

Same thoughts as Bolt did occur to me but I forgot to mention the potential for a gearbox problem being the underlying problem.

I do think though, like Gilbert, that the problem is probably due to duff lambda sensors. I have seen a lot of P38s with duff lambda sensors usually with the owner and general garages the owner used the services of unaware.

Normally if a 0>1v lambda sensor fails it will output close to 0v, which for a 0>1v sensor implies lean mixture, but the error codes point to rich mixture while the symptoms point to lean mixture. If lambda sensors incorrectly read rich mixture it may have the effect of leaning the mixture off. Given the aforementioned (question to everyone) - What are the chances that someone spliced in 5>0v sensors instead of the 0>1v sensors? I know that in this company I have no need to mention that with the 5>0v sensors a 5v signal; points to lean and a 0v signal points to rich...So if a fitter had mixed up their P38 models and spliced in 5>0v sensors on a model that should use 0>1v sensors there would be constant rich running error codes and the fuel trims might be leaned off leading to reduced engine torque, the engine would still rev but the car would lack power and go up through the gears slowly.

I currently have @Jacckk 's P38 in the yard, the last time I saw this P38 was 10 years ago but he fitted a 4.6 to replace his 4.0 and the LPG fuelling was off after the engine change. Today I got it running much nicer on LPG than on petrol, probably due to some petrol injector issues (only petrol injectiors on 7 and 8 seem to be working great, others probably not working very well).

It would be wasteful (time and money) to replace components that are working OK, so first I would want to run some diagnostics to determine which if any components were broken.... But as said, it is likely changing lambda sensors or MAF would fix the problem.

Have you had any components changed on it recently?
How old are the lambda sensors?
Are they definitely the correct type lamba sensors (connected using he original vehicle lambda sensor connecting plugs) or has someone spliced in generic sensors or sensors from an older P38?

P0172 / P0175 point to system too rich cylinder banks 1 / 2

I'd expect the fault to be due to incorrect spec or failed lambda sensors, or a failed MAF.

P1000 Doesn't normally indicate a fault, ir only means drive cycle(s) haven't been completed so the OBD system hasn't had opportunity to detect certain types of faults. Some vehicles have P1000 every time you start them up, the code goes away if drive cycles are completed without other fault codes occuring.

Is this a P38?

Bolt wrote:

So, for 12 bucks, I have bought 30 (minimum quantity) of the correct size and formulation O rings

Hope you don't mind me going slightly off subject... Noticed a problem with my boat hydraulic trim/tilt system allowing the outdrive/leg to drop when it was supposed to be on full tilt for getting the boat out of the water onto the trailer. I'm rebuilding the engine on it and with the engine out noticed a leak from the joint between a hydraulic pipe and the hydraulic pump. I disconnected the hydraulic line and found a damaged O-ring, this O-ring is apparently only available as part of a complete hydraulic pump refurb kit but I managed to find a replacement sold separately that is supposedly compatible. I'm wondering if the O-ring I bought separately (specifically listed on Ebay as being suitable for the line to pump joint on a Volvo SX / OMC Cobra drive) is really compatible and/or as good as an Oring that would have been supplied as part of the full pump refurb kit. Before I bought this Oring I looked at a specialist Oring manufacturer website https://www.polymax.co.uk/o-rings/ which lists the pros and cons of different types of Oring materials for different applications/fluids/etc but it doesn't seem to say anything about what material is best suited to hydraulic pipe joints for a boat application (it does mention materials for car brake line applications). I know the dimensions of the Oring and bought (from an Ebay seller not from the Polymax manufacturer) one specifically listed as suitable for the exact joint(s) they need to seal but I don't know whether the Ebay Oring is OEM spec, just a cheap random spec Chinese made Oring, etc. There are 4 Orings I'd like to change and to change 2 of them the engine needs to be out for access, the engine is out at the moment so now is the time to change them but I'm not sure whether to trust those I've bought from Ebay.

Impressive mileage, also an impressive trip. I'd love a road trip like that.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Anything in particular you want advice about

I'm not the best person to ask about Rangerovers but I might be able to help, I'm surprised others haven't seen your message and said hello yet.

Clean the injectors as discussed on LPGforum for sure.

I'd be interested to see if cleaning the reducer will cure the over pressure after solenoids open and before LPG injectors start bleeding pressure... But you might find it easier or prefer to just change the reducer.

If I calibrated the LPGTech system I'll have done it in 'standard mode' (as opposed to 'tech mode'), Standard Mode allows more control than Tech Mode (Tech mode is more for installers who try to get away with fit and forget and not do a proper job of calbration). You can adjust the pressure correction with LPG Tech, click Map, Correction, and find Gas Pressure Correction under the Others tab. Right click on a pressure and you can set a deviation from the standard pressure correction (deviation because your input figures are in addition to the underlying calculated pressure correction figures). The figures I mentioned above are absolute, to get to the absolute figures by entering deviations we have to enter figures of +16% at 1.8 bar and +43% at 2.5 bar, the scale only goes up to 2.5bar. You can also set a minimum injector pulse length in Settings, click on the 3 dots beside Injector Type, change Minimum Gas Injector Time to Manual and set a figure such as 2.3ms.

If you want you could email me your setup file (I'll have a copy but would take time to find it as it'll be on an old hard drive from an old Laptop), I'll modify it and email it back to you. It might help but I doubt it will cure the problems in itself.

It's probably due to a combination of problems...

We've been talking about dirty LPG recently, contains dissolved oil ('heavy ends') which comes out of the LPG during evaporation inside the reducer, flows along with gas vapour to injectors, when cold turns into a sticky tar like substance that can prevent or slow the speed of injectors opening https://lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19640

The reducer could be another problem. Maybe also due to heavy ends, maybe not... I've known quite a few Antarctic reducers have the problem of slightly sticking open gas inlet which sees pressure rise to 3 bar when there is no gas being drawn off (when the gas inlet port should be closed). The gas inlet port could be sticking open due to heavy ends. Or if you haven't monitored the gas pressure reading before the gas injectors start firing for a while, maybe it's been 3 bar before the injectors for a long time but still switched to gas OK until recently in which case we couldn't attribute all your recent problems just to the high gas pressure (although it would never help).

Don't know what ECU you're using but another problem can be that if you have set a 1.3 bar reference pressure we'd expect the ECU's default (none adjustable on some ECUs) pressure correction to compensate Ginj (gas injector pulse length) by around negative 50% if the pressure reading is 3bar, the default ECU settings are based on physics but don't take into account that the higher pressure will also have the effect of slowing the speed of injectors opening, so at such a high pressure (that will make a big difference to speed of injectors opening) the negative 50% is vastly excessive and has the effect of leaning the mixture due to too short Ginj. If the over-pressure situation is momentary (say the pressure decreases rapidly as soon as injectors start opening) it can be better to dial in a positive (obviously as opposed to negative but I mention it to highlight the point) pressure compensation for pressure readings above the usual range that will be seen during normal engine operation to prevent the over-pressure from leaning the mixture and also to give the injectors a longer pulse to give them better chance of opening and bleeding some of that pressure when they are first pulsed during changeover.. If possible I'd go with the standard pressure corrections up to 1.8 bar, then a zero correction to 2bar, then a positive correction up to around +15% at 3bar. Heh, my +15% correction for +3bar will be around a 65% longer pulse than the ECU would give with standard pressure correction. At cold changeover there'll also be some negative Ginj correction because besides pressure cold gas is denser than hot gas. That said, some ECU's also have a default minimum injector pulse length for the type of injectors you've selected in software (and some others allow a minimum pulse length to be defined by the installer). What ECU are you using?

Could be one I converted, I don't remember whether I did yours or not lol.

Devon Police sent me a couple of pics of myself driving my van with caravan on tow towards Cornwall back in August a few weeks ago, with a 'identify the driver' notice for not wearing a seatbelt. Pics taken from a few different angles, one showing my car and caravan from almost front on, one a down shot through the windscreen. I didn't know they had cameras that flag people not wearing seatbelts.

Kbs wrote:

Many years ago, I was developing OBD systems and I cant think of a link (other than rotten loom) between these errors (gearbox, cranksensor, temp sender).

I'd be interested in a chat about the development of OBD systems but that can wait until another time after your questions on thread have been answered.

My Launch gear seems able to do quite a lot on Land/Rangerovers including suspension stuff, not a cheap option but the Launch will talk to most modules on most vehicles.

If not a collapsed flexi could it be a problem inside the ABS unit?

Gilbertd wrote:

V8 Developments do ported heads in 3 stages (http://www.v8developments.co.uk/headporting.htm) but I'm not aware of any 4 valve or OHC aftermarket ones. While checking out the Wildcat heads, I came across this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115732141242, a pre top hatted block for not that much more than the cost of getting top hats fitted to an existing block. A good mod if building an engine is to use the 4.6 crank and con rods with 4.0 litre pistons. As the 4.0 litre pistons have a smaller dish, that ups the compression ratio to around 10.3:1 (ish). Pre-ignition won't be a problem with the knock sensors to back off the ignition timing if it occurs or if running on LPG with the much higher octane rating.

I remember V8 Developments advertising in car mags I read in the early 90's.

Come to think of it, while there are plenty aftermarket heads (especially Chinese made) for SBC and SBF engines (with various chamber volumes so you can pick your compression ratio) there doesn't seem to be any 4 valve per cylinder OHC heads for them either... Again, given the popularity of the engines would've thought there'd be a few firms making them. I quite fancied some big flow heads for my SBF boat engine, just spent over £120 on one of my cast iron heads but I could've bought 2 new big flow aluminium heads for around £700 and gained around 100bhp... but then to use the boat on saltwater I would've needed to fit a closed cooling system with water to water heat exchanger setup. Strange that there are no 4 valve per cylinder OHC heads for SBC and SBF engines when there was at least one firm making 4 valve per cylinder heads for the 4 cylinder Pinto engine (and iIrc it was an American firm) well before Cosworth made their 4V per cylinder Pinto head... Begs the question why they didn't make 4V per cylinder SBF and SBC heads, would only need to fit a toothed cambelt drive (or 2) between the harmonic balancer and front pulley, remove the tappets and plug the tappet oil feeds.

Just finished the L322 LPG conversion, can't believe how long this one took me I've been working on it all week! when 10 years ago I used to rattle them off in a few days! For sure I've done things a bit differently on this conversion compared to those I did 10 years ago, had to relearn some stuff that I used to be extremely familiar with, in fact so familiar it seems I didn't even bother making notes. All good and running great but I haven't quite finished even now, I still have to refit some boot trim, the engine cover, couple of nuts on the heater air intake panel that goes over the engine and recheck calibration from a cold start in the morning. Checked my records, seems it's been 10 years since I last converted an L322 (the last one I did was a supercharged one, this is the 4.4 normally aspirated engine) but I've fixed the LPG system on a great many L322's and other model Land/Rangerovers during that 10 years and converted around 1000 vehicles since then.

I was expecting to get this L322 converted in 3 days leaving Thursday and Friday to work on my boat engine. I've already got all the short block re-assembled (more or less, still need to fit the brass core plugs), the last thing I did was to re-lap the valves on one of the heads. The next thing I'll be doing is to check the other head and re-lap the valves, then I'll be refitting the tappets and refitting the heads. Can't wait to get it all back together and refitted in the boat so I can try it at least on the river once or twice before winter.