Time flies, I've been a member just over 9 years yet never owned a Rangerover. Have converted many to LPG including for several owners who are members of this forum, swapped messages and spoken on the phone with many more.
Thanks for help and other offers of help over the years Gordon, particularly for around the time it was looking like LPGforum might be shut down.
Who plans on still running a P38 in 2035?
Morat wrote:
Comma does oil with Zinc. It sold as "Motorsport" but I think that's just to let them put what they want in it.
https://www.commaoil.com/en-gb/product/moove/moove/comma/engine-oil/motorsport-5w-50/pdf/tds
0.1% / 1000ppm. It's not as high as some, but up there. It's also very high VI and pretty cheap on Amazon at £32 for 5l
Thanks Miles, I didn't know about that one or I might have bought some before finding the Valvoline, high in zinc and as a fully synthetic oil would expect it to have detergents(?). The 5W grade will make it thinner when cold than the 20W Valvoline but I'm not sure whether that would be an advantage, disadvantage or make no difference.. could be concerned that the 5W is thin but it matches the 5W of the synthetic used in the road going versions of the same year same model engine and the boat will never be used in freezing coniditons anyway.
Like you say, I think labelling something as motorsport does free them to make and sell it if it wouldn't be legal (maybe for want of a better word) to sell it for use on the road, same with high wattage bulbs etc.
I bought 2 tubs of the Valvoline stuff because shipping was the same price for one or two.
Pete12345 wrote:
Maybe the title should be changed to "What Oil for my Boat" . . . . ???
Thorst wrote:
That's not as good clickbait...
th.
Heh, OK fair points and sorry to you both if you don't think it relevant here. Like I said I thought it relevant here because of the flat tappets and detergent aspects, I've read some members on here mention ZDDP before. I don't own a P38 but have done oil changes for a few owners, usually putting in whatever oil they ask me to put in, usually with no or little thought about ZDDP or detergent.
mad-as wrote:
i haven't owned a boat for 30 years, never had much to do with inboards either, but i can remember they ran a lot cooler than car engines, this may have changed with today's engine set ups, let's face it, nothing is the same as yesterday's stuff. my point being if they are cool runners, you will need a thinner oil than usual. what is the oil pressure and the temperature of the engine when at running temps.
Modern inboards have closed cooling systems and run at car engine temps, car spec coolant runs through the engine, they have a coolant to raw water heat exchanger. Mine and Gilbert's boats are older and use raw water engine cooling, the thermostat keeps the engine a bit cooler than a car engine to prevent build up of salt, calcium, etc in the engine.
I've used straight 30 and 20/50 in my boat, after half an hour of giving it some stick noticed oil pressure stays higher with the 20/50 than with the straight 30. If the supposed oil spec is straight 30 weight oil, a 10/40 or 20/50 would be thinner than the straight 30 when oil is cold and thicker when the oil is hot?
There's no oil cooler fitted and no airflow past the sump, so although the water cooling system runs cooler the oil will probably get hotter in the boat engine when giving it some stick than a car engine.
I know oil pressure isn't necessarily an indicator of good lubrication, oil pressure is really an indicator of resistance to flow so on the flip side a reading of lower oil pressure could point to increased flow through bearings which could be a good thing. But overall I'm happier with the higher oil pressure reading the 20/50 gives after giving it some stick than the old spec straight 30. I expect good things from the VR1.
gordonjcp wrote:
Do you want a public subforum set up for that? It's no bother...
Thanks for the offer Gordon, like Gilbert says there's no need but thanks anyway. We usually chat boats in PM's or on LPG forum.
On my boat engine the dipstick tube connects to the (only) plug / drain hole in the sump. The dipstick tube runs from what would usually be the sump drain hole around the back of and under the sump, the dipstick never actually enters the sump but oil level can be read almost as usual because oil in the dipstick tube finds the same level as oil in the sump - the dipstick only reaches as far as bottom of sump level but on the port side of the engine when the sump hole is on the starboard side.
One of the problems with this is that you can't tell condition of oil in the sump by reading the dipstick because oil in the disptick tube probably never mixes with oil in the sump so always looks cleaner than the oil in the sump after the engine has been run for a few hours. If (say) there was water in oil in the sump, oil on the dipstick still wouldn't look milky because it would be reading oil in the tube pushed into the tube last time we did an oil change. With this setup the dipstick is only good for reading oil level, you can't use it to check oil condition.
The dipstick tube is designed to double up as an oil drain tube using a suitable vacuum pump and even has a threaded connector on top, apparently a 'garden hose type connector' fits to screw such pump fitting onto... but I bought such connector to screw on and it didn't fit.
If I/we did fit a barb and flexible oil removal hose to the sump hole instead of the factory dipstick tube it would mean we wouldn't have a dipstick... But the dipstick tube effectively does the same job as a flexible oil removal hose because it connects to the sump drain hole and doubles as an oil removal tube anyway?
I would still like to have a threaded connector with hose barb to attach to the 'garden hose connector' on top of the dipstick tube and run a pipe from the barb to the oil extraction vacuum pump. I have been using a hand operated oil removal / vacuum pump that has a rubber end that seals to the tube but this means holding the hand pump tightly onto the top of the tube to maintain the seal and it's hard work holding it on and pumping at the same time, especially when the oil is as cold as this weather and with my bad shoulder lol. If I had a garden hose to pipe tail connector I wouldn't need to hold the pump tight on the dipstick tube while pumping so it would make it quite a lot easier.
The Valvoline VR1 20/50 arrived today, I put it in but it'll be spring before the boat/engine is used again.
A couple of oils mentioned above including the Valvoline stuff that's high in ZDDP and detergents.
What are thoughts on ZDDP for flat tappet engines, neccessary only during the cam and tappets running in stage or all the time?
How much ZDDP and detergents do the other oils have?
Maybe if people have been using old-skool 20/50 etc oils for a long time it would be a bad idea to switch to the Valvoline stuff because the detergent could dislodge sludge, not problem if they've been running synthetic (which is generally higher in detergents than old-skool mineral)?
Not sure if the Ford or RV8 engines have full flow through the filter or some oil bypasses the filter.
Thanks Gilbert. I very nearly didn't make a public thread on this subject, was going to mention it to you in a PM (for the benefit of others Gilbert and I talk boats in PMs). But the thought occurred that at least the ZDDP aspect would be relevant here too (Rover V8's have flat tappets?) and I knew you'd see and reply to this thread anyway :)
Just spent 3/4 of an hour hand pumping 5 litres of Halfords 20/50 out of the boat engine dipstick tube including a few breaks. Pita job seemed more difficult this time than ever before but that's probably because I have a bad shoulder this time. New oil hasn't even arrived yet.
I don't own a Rangerover but have a boat with a 1996 Ford 302 Windsor V8 engine, the marine version of this engine is known as the OMC Cobra engine.
In 1996 the road version of this engine would have a roller cam setup and use 5W30 synthetic oil. The OMC Cobra version is almost identical but has a hydraulic flat tappet valvetrain, marinas advise the OMC Cobra marine version should use straight 30 grade mineral oil.
I suspect the straight 30 oil recommendation is due to OMC being slow to change their advice. They are certainly much slower to change their engine / mechanical designs than is the case for road going vehicle manufacturers. The marine version has been around since the earliest road going Ford 302's which came out in the 60's, I think a multigrade like 20/50 is better than the straight 30 oil. But my question was/is would a modern synthetic oil be better than a mineral multigrade?
It's normally not recommended to switch to an oil with high detergents after running a no detergent or low detergent oil because the detergent could dislodge old sludge and cause problems but I rebuilt this engine last year and there won't be any sludge in it... So on that basis I would prefer to run a modern multigrade that has detergent to help prevent sludge build up.
This is where my oil concerns might be similar to oil concerns of P38 owners... Unlike the road going 1996 engines my marine 1996 engine has those flat tappets, which ZDDP protects, but modern synthetics don't contain ZDDP while a mineral 20/50 will probably contain at least some ZDDP though most manufacturers don't tell you how much. Though a mineral 20/50 oil won't contain much detergent.
I've tried to research what's the best option for my relatively newly rebuilt 302 with flat tappets on boating forums, car forums, oil company discussion boards, etc, got a headache looking into it.. Most of the boaters stick to the recommended straight 30 but (as said above) I think that's just following old advice that ought to have been updated.
Today I had a chat with Opie Oils who recommended Valvoline VR1 20W50 mineral 'race' oil. They said that although it's a mineral oil it has better sheer strength (retains it's 20/50 grade) better than most synthetics, the 20/50 grade is a good match for the old straight 30 grade, it has a lot of modern additives / detergents and has high levels of ZDDP. I bought 2 x 5L containers of the stuff from their online shop.
I'm not usually so anal / picky about choice of oil, for a car I'll usually just stick in whatever meets the manufacturer's recommended grade, choose a well known brand and not worry about it. But when you believe manuafacturer advice is 50 years out of date because newer / better oils have come along while they haven't moved with the times and your situation is a bit more unique because you don't need to worry about dragging up sludge in a newly rebuilt engine, it gets you thinking or at least it does me.
What oils do you run in your P38's and why?
RedP38 wrote:
That email, according to the seller, was supposed to contain the postal address for me to post my key fob over to UK. Of course it it did contain the address.
I had a look at the Ebay listing 'contact details' section, the full address isn't shown but there's a phone number and direct email address.
Copied and pasted from the listing contact details section...
Company name
Remote Repair Centre
Seller name
Remote Repair Centre
Address
remoterepairscentre, peterborough, Cambridgeshire, PLEASE ASK, United Kingdom
Phone
+44 7453970059
Email
Rapidremotecentre@outlook.com
I find that Ebay won't allow the exchange of telephone numbers, addresses or email addresses before a sale, after a sale it will at least allow the seller to send an email address to the buyer but not a telephone number, I'm not sure about a location address. After a sale I don't know if it will allow the buyer to send an email address to the seller but I expect it will. Anyway, the seller has included their email address in the contact details section that I pasted above. I have pasted the seller's contact email address and telephone number above, so you could email or phone the seller directly and ask them for the address to send your fob to. If you don't get any reply to that email you could try using Ebay messenger to send the seller your email address and ask them to email you with the address to send your fob to.
I sell LPG pumps through Ebay, Ebay doesn't allow me to see the buyer's email address or phone number, so I'm not able to pass that information on to the courier or to email the buyer the PDF instructions. I send the buyer an Ebay message saying I need to send the instructions, I include my email address and ask the buyer to email me so I can reply to the email and attach the instructions.
Feel for you Gilbert.
At Shell Island on Sunday we'd just about finished launching the boat on the concrete slipway, my young nephew and niece already on the boat (launched with them onboard), I climbed on to start the engine, got my sister to climb on, older nephew was holding the boat preventing the incoming tide taking it up the estuary... A bloke who was about to launch a large rib with his mates came to help, offered to hold the boat while my older nephew climbed on then push us off. But after everyone had climbed on the helpful bloke had moved the boat so the skeg of my outdrive was touching the concrete slipway even though I'd still got it trimmed fairly high (the previous day we launched so the front end of the boat was over the concrete slipway while the outdrive was off the side of the slipway in deeper water, so we could reverse away without the prop hitting the slipway or anything else). Then he said 'OK you're good to go now'. I knew that if I dropped it into gear it would have taken my prop out on the concrete slipway and he must've known that was the case because he was standing quite close to it and could clearly see it. It probably didn't occur to him that we'd purposely got the boat in a position where the prop was safe and had tried to spin us around so we could drive off forwards but that meant the prop was on the slipway... and he was still telling us we were good to go. I got the impression the 'help' was mostly so he could get on the water 1 minute sooner and thought I'd just take his word for it we were 'good to go'.
Been to Shell Island in North Wales this weekend, first time I got to use the boat on the sea :)
The weather was OK, sea conditions quite calm but worse than it seems to look in the video.
On Saturday we went from Shell Island to near Barmouth, back to near Shell Island then across the bay to Cricieth and back to Shell Island, plus a few runs up and down the coast near Shell Island so a total of around 50 miles.
My son and his wife came for the day on Saturday but too late for the tide so missed going on the boat. I'd only taken one full jerry can to top up the boat's fuel tank so on Sunday we went out without a full tank of fuel and stayed closer to Shell Island than on Saturday.
My sister filming and her kids on the boat with us. The videos were taken on Sunday near Shell Island
Sorry this isn't Rangerover related.
I saw Miles (Morat) yesterday and mentioned I might be posting another video of my boat on LPGforum, he suggested I post the link on this forum too.
My daughter driving the boat last weekend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGK1YDzSpVQ
With the Maf disconnected it was running closed loop with flicking lambda voltages and fuel trims working as normal, which seemed a bit odd.
I forget the figures but the Maf flow figures but it was under-reading airflow so causing lean running. Also with it connected short term trims didn't climb to try to correct fuelling as usual, instead if just reported duff lambdas and went to open loop fuelling which was lean.
Just had a Disco with Thor engine here, modified for off road use and the owner says he's won a few competitions with it. LPG converted (Prins) and was running slightly better on LPG than on petrol but on either fuel it was idling rough (as though it had a big cam in it), though the owner said he'd rebuilt the engine and it only has a standard cam. The two OBD error codes pointed to both front lambda sensors failed and lambda readings for both banks were full lean but I found when I blipped the throttle the lambda readings momentarily went rich as they should, which pointed to maybe the the lambda sensors (at least signal) showing actual mixture so the mixture actually lean. It was looking as though 2 failed lambda sensor heaters were causing the rough idle but when I unplugged the MAF and restarted the engine it ran perfectly, correct mixture on both banks and lambda readings flicking like they should.. It runs a lot better with the MAF unplugged but I warned the owner it might refuse to start, or start then refuse to run, or if it runs OK at light engine loads it might still not run OK under heavier loads. I asked him if the ECU had been modified, he said not. He's going to fit a new MAF, see how it runs with that fitted and maybe new lambda probes if it runs better with the new MAF but codes pointing to lambda's still reoccur.
Any other thoughts on it running better with the Maf unplugged?
As usual when I see a Disco / Rangerover I pointed the owner to this forum
Morat wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
>However, once you get it and start using it, you'll be putting the Elgrand up for sale.
Which one? LOL
Lol!
I will be selling one of my three Elgrands soon... The one I bought for £600 that had already been written off due to someone crashing it, bought it so I could remove it's engine and 4wd transmission to fit into my other one that had a smoky engine and trans with failing TC lockup, also removed the written off car's pop top roof and fitted it to the same one I put the engine in. Done those jobs so now have 2 good Elgrands (one with a pop top roof)
Sorry the late reply, no I didn't get it, had another think and reckoned I already have too much on the go to be taking on something else.
Thought I'd already posted my reply but when I re-opened this web browser page my message was still in edit mode because I hadn't clicked on 'reply'.
I know it's a how long is a piece of string type question but what would you pay for it, how much would you expect to spend doing it up and how much do you reckon it'd be worth done up? Not to win any shows, just with issues mentioned in the listing and whatever you'd expect to need sorting sorted.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236134692782
Always fancied one, never owned one but have worked on plenty on them. I might enjoy doing one up and picking the brains of those more clued up about them if the result is something worth more than I invested in terms of parts costs in it.
But I don't mind if this is news to others on forum who end up buying it.