Hehe just playing devil's advocate though ;-) Thing about steam is it will condense and become just water.
Burning any HC fuel, the H in the HC becomes H2O, steam, anyway. And that is additional water, not water that was turned into H + O and back into water as with hydrogen fuel.
Gilbertd wrote:
Lpgc wrote:
Anyone have a BMW engine'd L322 to compare readings?
No but I've got RAVE that covers it:
Thanks Gilbert, that does imply it's just an analogue output as would normally expect. I'm sure I've got notes somewhere on normal Maf g/s readings at idle on this model but can't find them... With a vac or evap purge leak not all intake air would be coming through the Maf, which could explain low Maf readings and high fuel trims. Or if the Maf were dodgy would also explain low Maf readings.
I know there are a lot of dodgy aftermarket Mafs around for BMW engines in general, and on the BMW's a Maf that looks identical can be a different spec... So if I find the problem is the Maf do I advise buying a replacement from a dealer (Landrover / BMW) or a much cheaper one from Ebay etc, or fit signal voltage pullup resistors...
Fixed a few LPG installs on various vehicles today, most of the owners have been badgering me to bring their vehicles in for about a month but I've had loads of conversions on.
One of them was an L322 with complaints of it making a whining noise during driving, when the driver puts foot down the MIL light flashes and the engine shudders/vibrates. The owner didn't know what system was fitted, had the system converted by an installer in the NorthWest 4 years ago and it had always had problems running properly on gas but lately they had got worse.
I expected an easy fix, whining probably the reducer resonating, MIL flashing and engine vibration obviously a misfire, probably both related and the reducer kicking out incorrect pressure.
When it came in the install looked like it the installer had started out with good intentions... neatly wrapped wires over the engine and injectors on an OK bracket even though their choice of injectors meant the engine cover couldn't be refitted (and a bad choice of injectors anyway being Barracuda) then got pushed for time and decided to bodge other parts of the install... dodgy looking wiring near the +ve jump start pole that prevented anyone removing the heater air filter bulkhead panel for access to the rear end of the engine.
Although I'd seen the same type of changeover switch many times in the past I didn't remember the make of ECU/system that used that switch so had to open the engine bay electronics box to see the ECU, turned out it was a 'Blue ECU', seldom seen in the UK though I had worked on systems based on that ECU in the past and already had the software for it, one of the better hardly known ECU's. The Barracuda's look the part, they're all shiny and bigger than BRC or Keihin, they can be high flow, but they're slow in response and very over-rated.
Connected a generic scan tool, Ltft's at around +10% but stuck there due to OBD error codes being present despite Stft's being maxed out and the engine struggling to run gasping for breath with high manifold pressure due to lean mixture on both petrol and LPG, but worse on LPG.
Found out the installer or some other LPG fitter had wired injectors for cylinders on bank 2 (cyls 5678) in the order 8765, so during changeover and in certain other conditions there was hesitation and misfires due to the ECU channel routing problem, this bit an easy fix.
Did a bit of basic recalibration in the yard just occasionally using a bit of engine load wasted by heating up the torque convertor (holding on the brakes). The installer had calibrated using the wrong process, had dialled in all mapping corrections in RPM correction instead of using the map and had used too many offsets in the initial settings (such as 1ms added ginj for undefined 'idle' conditions). I reset all the anti-intuitive rpm corrections they'd dialled in and started my multiplier map calibration without the unspecified offsets deleted. I wanted to increase Ltfts's in the hope it would run better on petrol at low loads and then I could match gas trims to petrol trims.... and for the most part managed to do that, though I still expect it either has an inlet manifold vacuum leak or a dodgy MAF. I haven't smoke tested it yet but the owner's OK for me to have the car a bit longer now and I've had a cancellation for Monday so I might smoke test it then, though I do expect a dodgy MAF. Special tool needed to remove the MAF, like a Torx bit but with only 4 sides like a posidrive/Philips screwdriver, but with a centre pole so the tool needs a hole in the end of it's centre.
Managed to steer Ltfs up to the max at around 20% at light loads getting lower at high loads, Mil light would always be on with such fuel Ltft's but at least it might run OK(ish) with correct mixture, so took it out for a drive... Oh dear, the gearbox refused to upshift for TPS or vacuum and would only upshift for rpm. And the noise the owner talked about that I expected to be reducer resonance turned out to be not from the reducer but from the gearbox...
Back to base, connected up wider ranging OBD gear, the gearbox ECU had a stored code for lack of canbus coms. Cleared the error code, back on the road again.... this time it went up through the gears a lot more like it should and the noise had gone and the OBD code from the gearbox ECU didn't re-occur.
Felt a bit warm and the climate control was set at 22C so I turned it down (a test I would have run anyway...), found that running on gas without the cabin being heated the reducer temp started dropping sharply. Back at base I found the original installer had plumbed the reducer incorrectly, without under-bonnet heater water flow solenoids being open the reducer would see only a small amount of hot water but one of the heater matrix's would see a small supply of hot water even when it shouldn't. Removed the middle bulkhead / air filter panel to see piping at the rear of the engine. The pipe I needed to T to had degraded and swollen... should I try to plumb to it or not? I did, then soon regretted it, the heater coolant pipe had become very thin and swollen, try to plumb a T into it and any clip on the pipe just tore through the pipe. Took me ages to replace most of the length of that pipe (including all of the area that had swollen / thin-walled).
At least now it drives well with maxed out positive low load Ltft's, LPG wiring routing and mapping sorted, and will run OK on LPG without the heater blowing hot air. Just need to look into possible vacuum leak or MAF problem, could even be due in part to evap purge because it's got a dodgy petrol filler cap fitted that stinks of petrol. Also need to look into the fast idle (1000rpm) with correct mixture, these should do around 630rpm idle and it does with lean mixture so maybe the IAV has incorrectly learned with incorrect mixture (which I can sort).
If the worst came to worst... couldn't find a vac or evap leak and a replacement Maf didn't correct it, I am confident I could approach from the opposite direction and adjust the Maf signal voltage using a pull up resistor connected to a voltage divider circuit to tailer the low load Maf reading to something that will give good results... Just need to remember whether the Bosch MAF on L322 BMW's has PWM or voltage output...or does anyone reading know? At 1000rpm fast idle with fully warm engine with no load the MAF reading in live data is around 5g/s, I reckon it should be around 6g/s... Anyone have a BMW engine'd L322 to compare readings?
Only just seen your last post Miles. It'll flash lights on the LPG switch when it's switched back to petrol because it's worked out gas injectors would need to pulse for longer than the available window between 4 stroke cycles for calculated pulse length... Usually due to dodgy calibration, too small nozzles, too unlinear injectors or too low pressure. In your case, since I fitted it and injectors will be linear enough, nozzle size will be correct and calibration will be correct it will be due to too low pressure... so the ECU is compensating for low pressure by increasing gas injector pulse duration. so calculated pulse length has become longer than window.
Let me know when you're ready and we'll sort something out if you like? Got loads on lately but we'll come up with something.
Been fixing an L322 today, expected an easy fix but it's been a pita lol. I'll post about the L322 on a more relevant thread. Edit.... Hang on, this is the more relevant thread, I'll post below lol.
I'm not against nuclear power stations but it would only take one big accident to make slowly rising sea levels and bit different weather seem the lesser evil to locals of the nuke plant, especially in a small country like the UK. But to be absolutely safe we could always pay the Chinese to build more of them for us lol.
Gilbertd iIrc you recently mentioned nuclear fusion has now been invented... Or were you joking?
Ok Miles, let me know when you're ready and we'll sort something out :-)
Disco thing meaning it will run on LPG but the level sensor lights are flashing?
It's sometimes possible to dial out resonance by adjusting reducer pressure setting slightly
Fixed the LPG system on 3 Rangerovers in the last couple of days, plus on a Jeep Cherokee.
Including:
An L322 with BMW 4.4, recently had engine fitted by a garage in Barnsley (and I visited the garage to fix it). Stag300 with Zavoli reducer and V30 injectors. Mechanic who fitted the engine had connected the LPG system's vacuum connection to the front diff breather pipe (hehe), mixed up wiring for the reducer solenoid and reducer temp sensor, then when I got it so it would run on LPG it was running way too lean so I needed to calibrate it. It was obvious to me that the vehicle had previously had a BRC system fitted but the only parts of the BRC system still remaining were the multivalve and wiring to the tank (still had superseal plugs on, which along with the Zavoli's temp sensor plug also being Supaseal explained the wiring mix-up).
Sport 4.2 Supercharged with BRC system, reducer solenoid clicked but tank solenoid didn't. Tank solenoid reading 10Ohms and wiring 12v to it saw it open so it wasn't the coil at fault. 16 Ohms across the wiring to the tank solenoid even with the reducer solenoid disconnected so this was the fuel return solenoid not the reducer solenoid and the break would be between the front end and rear end (fuel return solenoid fitted at the rear), found a break in the wiring under the drivers door.
P38 Misfiring on LPG and incorrect mixture on petrol, needed a lambda sensor but also new LPG injectors, he's going away to fit a lambda probe and will return for the injectors.
Jeep Wrangler 4L with Aldesa system (shite and rare system), supposedly came in for a check-over for a new buyer but was delivered on a trailer with seized osf caliper. Tank rather rusty so they daren't put any gas in it before I'd checked it. No number plates. Broken reducer temp sensor (fixed) and seized tank solenoid (fixed). It would then run on the vapours of gas left in the tank so I disconnected the tank's fill pipe and stuck around 5L of gas in the tank from a tank I have in the yard... Tank held pressure OK and I reckoned although the tank was rusty it wasn't dropping to bits and hadn't suffered severely thinned walls. Fuel trims OKish so I told them it was fixed but would need the rust cleaning off the tank and the tank given a thorough underseal.
Strange how writing P38 followed by a capital M I nearly misread my own writing, expected to read P38 Mustang hehe.
I'm not saying this as a point against climate change because I do believe man is at least partly responsible for it... But it's a bit ironic that throughout school people of my age (50) were told that the Earth was headed for another ice age and were shown statistics/ graphs to back that up lol! The main concern about fossil fuels back then wasn't climate change, it was because it led to acid rain and deforestation, general air pollution was demonstrated by showing us pics of silver birch trees growing in clean air areas versus black silver birch trees growing in dirty air areas.
10000 Years ago could walk through 'Doggerland' from the UK to mainland Europe and man wasn't responsible for the English channel but we have probably helped make it a bit deeper...
There are firms removing CO2 from the atmosphere, and splitting hydrogen from water, to produce pure hydrocarbon fuel that is almost drop-in compatible with conventional (petrol / diesel / aircraft fuel) fuels.. All it takes is energy (electricity) and it is as carbon neutral and clean as the electricity that was used to produce it. Perhaps there will always be a supply of fuel for ice's even if/when they become a niche.
https://energypost.eu/extract-co2-from-our-air-use-it-to-create-synthetic-fuels/
I would guess the same as Morat, I've seen plenty with broken lambda probes causing these symptoms.
If it occurs to people that it may not be legal to drive petrol cars at some point in future there may be a lot who think 'now or never' and buy a thirsty V8 lol.
I've been looking at old cars on Ebay recently, stuff like mk2 Granada's and Cortinas I ran in my youth. I'm not about to buy one because they sell for big money now, most buyers would probably buy as an investment so only use it on Sunday and for shows where-as I'd use it as a daily, I wouldn't have time to pamper one and keep it rust free so any 'investment' would probably go the wrong way for me. The prices of classic cars are interesting though, everyone knows that a BMW 7 series is a much better car than a Granada but prices don't necessarily reflect that.. much of the market seems to be about people having cash today that they didn't have when they were younger so now they can afford to buy the car they always wanted even at the appreciated prices... Old Escorts once worth a couple of weeks wages now fetch crazy money now. We've become used to chip in key type immobilisers in more modern cars, any car could be vandalised parked up somewhere but one with chip'n'key is unlikely to get nicked as a thief isn't going to be able to start the engine... But older cars like the mk2 Granada are easily nicked, can be driven away by breaking the steering lock and hotwiring, and they are sought after as banger racing cars. Not so bad back in the day when most cars didn't have chip'n'key so your car was no more nickable than others parked beside it, the car might only have been worth £1k and didn't stand out from the crowd, but would think twice about driving the same car today worth £10k to the coast and going for a walk with the car parked in some backstreet carpark.
South African imports seem to be big on the classic car scene, can find a relatively rust free example of a lot of cars we ran in the UK in South Africa and sometimes better spec'd such as 3L engine'd Cortina's or more likely to have aircon. I might be interested in importing something like a mk2 Granada from South Africa myself if it would mean could get one relatively cheaply, haven't looked into it yet, anyone got any tips on how best to go about it?
If you P38 experts can't tell the difference between a real Vogue etc and a normal P38, why would anyone pay so much more for a real one? Why wouldn't a buyer rather save maybe 50%(?) on the buy price and stick a Vogue badge on the back? Even if they buy a real one, if they come to sell it other buyers might think it a potential fake?
I nearly suggested a 16mm or 5/8th plug socket because they're deep and readily available, but I didn't think one would handle that much torque.
I didn't know there was a difference between normal diesel and red diesel besides obviously dye being in red. Seen loads of engines run on red and not noticed more smoke compared to normal diesel.
At one time if you got done for using red diesel you got a fine and the vehicle confiscated. So if you ran an old low value diesel car and could prove you hadn't done much mileage, or if you changed old cars regularly (so could say you hadn't owned it long enough to have used much fuel), you could be better off running on red even if you had to pay a fine and got a car confiscated every few years.
23 Years ago I bought a cheap none-turbo diesel Astra from a mate for my commute as a 'put me on', my mate reckoned it would easily do 60mpg. Then he said you might as well take my spare fuel for it and put 3 x 20 litre cooking oil vats filled with some sort of fuel in the boot. I ended up doing a 1000 mile round trip in that car, took the 3 tubs with me, didn't have to buy any fuel during the entire trip. He paid 16p a litre for that stuff - which did seem to look a bit red lol. Arrived home with quarter of a tank of fuel left in the car and nearly a full tub in the boot. 1000 Miles for less than £15. I then bought a much larger diesel car.
BrianH wrote:
It was raised as a query for the CAZ checker - which currently covers Bath and Birmingham, I believe Bristol and Leeds will be added as their schemes get to the point where the required standards are clear. As far as I knew, Leeds wasn't yet active? (your closer to the place than me, so maybe you know better on this point?) Bristol still seems to be deciding which scheme they are going to use.
Good point on range about removing the petrol tank, but it still leaves you stuck if you turn up at a filling station with little left in the tank and find its out of order. Round here the closest station to me doesn't have another one working within 15 miles. And its not like you could turn up with a jerry can if its on gas only!
Cheers 😁
Since we're on an electric vehicle related thread - Probably still a better situation than running out of electric charge with an EV, could use a Calor bottle as a Jerry can (would help to put plumbing in place as a pre-emptive measure to be ready for this situation). With an extra tank of gas range is likely to be far better than an EV, when you do find gas can refill/recharge quicker. The 'extra tank' won't weigh a ton or cost £50k to buy and fit.
The other day when I was converting the Volvo the tank I ordered for it hadn't arrived by the time I'd completed the engine conversion, so I just put this on-site refillable forklift tank in the boot and connected it up to the gas feed running to the engine bay so I could calibrate the system before the tank I'd ordered arrived. Easy enough to pick this full tank up and put it in the boot on my own and the tank holds about 60 litres of gas. Proper refillable 4 hole job with built in 80% fill limiter etc, with the acme to bayonet adapter directly attached it fills quite a bit quicker than filling a petrol tank. I could easily add facility to (say) my own car to be able to just put this tank in the boot whenever I want for the extra capacity and range.
Great work and looking down the Youtube comments someone else did the same engine swap earlier.
Couldn't help noticing the wire touching the exhaust at 3:28 though lol.
It's probably the first time I've heard of the Toyota problem so I don't know the conditions Toyota owners have had ruined engines under, I don't have enough info to draw comparisons etc.
Can say that with the Elgrands all owners seem to only use the recommended fully synthetic oil, Nissan did a 'fuelling' recall on them during which they checked condition of catalytic convertors (Nissan are aware cats fail and when cats fail it can bugger the engine but they blamed it on over-fuelling), it doesn't seem to make a difference if the engine was a clean runner right up to the point of failing or burned a bit of oil for years before failing.
I can see what differences the fuelling recall made to fuelling when I'm calibrating LPG systems (can compare pinj between those that have had the recall done and those that haven't), they did lean off the top end a bit and prevent a very lean mixture still being injected on over-run in the recall but the recall seems to have done nothing to prevent failures. For running on LPG it doesn't really matter if the recall has been done or not, mixture on LPG can be the same, just a matter of setting multiplier at the high load end correctly and filtering short pulses on over-run.
I'm not saying oil starvation hasn't wrecked a few engines but nobody has yet suffered the same type of engine failure when cats have been removed.
Bri, just to clarify, which city(s) reckon they will or may allow monofuel LPG vehicles to avoid emissions zone charges?
On range, there are not a lot of vehicles on which removal of the petrol tank would make space for much extra LPG capacity but there are some..