Parts arrived this morning. Going as well as I could have wished for really, looks like I'll manage to hide the entire air suspension gubbins that were previously in the centre of the spare wheel well still under the flap in the boot.

The owner opted for the square filler centre rear below bumper level, just made the bracket for that and waiting for the paint to dry before I can fit the tank.. but obviously I've already made sure it's all going to fit etc. Fitted the injectors and did some wiring yesterday, just about to route LPG and petrol return pipes while the paint is drying.

This morning I bought both sizes of fittings and piping plus a cutting tool, total £71.60 with free next day delivery. Never needed a cutting tool for this kind of thing before but for £6 why not.

The pipe we use in some types of modern straw type injectors is 6x1 and I have a few metres of that in stock, could probably use that for the 6x1 but still bought 20m from RS and another 20m from TinleyTech. Eventually I'll use all the 6x1 bought from TT but may never use all the 6x1 from RS, info on their site doesn't say whether it is compatible with hc's like oil, petrol or LPG but I'd be kicking myself if I didn't buy it and found that for some reason the 6x1 from TT wouldn't work with the inline joiners or Jag end fittings.

Besides extending the piping and re-mounting the reservoir and valve block there'll be quite a few wires to extend to the valve block too.

Thanks for the help.

Short reply for tonight... Thanks for that Gilbert, just the response I was hoping for.

Hadn't thought to check truck dealerships... you reckon they'll keep narrow gauge pneumatic pipe joiners in stock?
Been looking on RS Component's website but their search facility doesn't seem great when looking for this type of thing.
Ideally I'd prefer something like a simple push-in inline pipe joiner, the type where you just push the pipe into a plastic grommet before pushing into the hole job done... The joiner(s) need to be physically small so that I can either make the join between the tank and wheel well floor or make the join externally (after pushing the pipes back through the grommet - there's a space forward of the wheel well protected from the elements by a plastic under-tray).

Didn't enjoy converting a supercharged L322 last week.This week I'm converting an XJ8, more or less the same engine but without the supercharger, still needs a fuel return fitting, still needs a lube (but at least not electronic type)... But I wasn't counting on this car having air suspension stuff in the middle of the spare wheel well and it seems this air suspension stuff is going to be much more of a pain to shift than it is on an L322. Some pipes run through a rubber grommet in the wheel well floor to the suspension, pipes also run internal in the wheel well to the pump, so to shift it from the spare wheel well so I can fit the tank I'll have to extend the pipes.

Pic of the air suspension stuff in the wheel well

But how to extend the pipes... I don't want to have run new lengths of pipe to each suspension corner, pump, etc... I just want to buy more of the same types of pipe and use pipe joints. Can anyone help identify what type of pipe joints I need and where to get them in a hurry?

Here are some close up pics of the pipes marked 6x1 and 4x1 (which I take to mean 6mm diameter x 1mm wall thickness etc) and the end fittings which use little collets. Reckon I don't need to worry about the end fittings as I should be able to re-use them on the pipes I add as extensions, but I do need to buy some of this 6x1 and 4x1 pipe and fittings to connect 2 lengths of 6x1 together and 2 lengths of 4x1 together.

Anyone know where to get those bits in a hurry? I'm not sure what thread they are etc but I thought perhaps they're usually a standard type and some of the knowledgeable people here might know.

I didn't mean to post this in Opening Time, had a look to see if I could shift it but seems beyond my moderation powers... Higher mods feel free to shift this thread.

Thanks, Simon

RutlandRover wrote:

Doesn't that then give you a very unbalanced pulley that will vibrate more?

Just get it bang in the centre and put equal weight of weld at opposing sides. Often see old V / ribbed belts with bits missing out of them, the belts rotate equally as fast as the pulley but around a much larger diameter (because belts route around all the ancillaries)... usually isn't vibration from this condition which is probably a much more out of balance condition. Probably a bit harsher on the first driven ancillary (often AC) than with the rubber in place... but rather than £450 extra to fit a pulley with a rubber dampener that will go wrong again eventually I'd weld it up... That's if it's steel, mind you I'd probably try if it was any metal.

I've welded vibration damper type pulleys up before, works out even cheaper than scrapyards. Also welded up freewheeling type pulleys on alternators.. They never fail again after that!

I accidentally put a self tapper through a wire on Morat's P38, that was one of only 2 occasions I've ever done that on any of my LPG installs.
For a moment when flicking through this thread I got a bit worried, thought it was RutlandRover with the possible short circuit and I converted RutlandRover's car... But I didn't convert Strangerover's car so not guilty! Made it up to Morat since lol.

Sometimes get a brief spurious reading when you first connect up a digital multimeter, probably more of a reflection of it's sampling speed and averaging the reading between open circuit and load.

Anyway mate.. Is it all back together and running well now, oil and water leaks etc?

I know them as clocksprings too. Got to be careful fitting them as apparently once you've unleashed it to unwind there's no winding it back, which is why there's little point getting one from a scrapyard. A bit along the lines of fixing a petrol lawnmower's self returning pull start cable setup except there's no access.

Agreed, given the symptoms started back in October it does seem you needed the lambda probe.

Good, getting somewhere now...!

Worth saying that with that pipe off it obviously must misfire on LPG because that cylinder won't have been getting any fuel when running on LPG. Power would obviously be down running on 7 cylinders. You'll have pulled the pipe off yourself during engine work (hg's etc)?

When I first fit the system I fit an overly long length of pipe to each manifold spud, being longer makes it easier to thread through the holes I make in the plenum and of course it's better to fit too long a length of pipe and cut it down to size than fit too short a length and find out the plenum has to come off again to fit a longer bit. To make it easier to thread the pipes on 2nd fit you can push a length of wire into the end of each pipe and push a short M6 bolt into the end of each pipe to hold the wire, that way you can thread the wire through the holes with the plenum higher up and pull the pipes through when the plenum is almost down, this also helps to prevent kinking (but still do the blow and vacuum checks just before and after bolting the plenum down when the pipes are fully routed to the position they'll be in when connected to injectors... it is possible to pass blow and vac checks but still have a problem if pipes are pushed/pulled later). You could use different colour wires to denote which cylinder each pipe feeds but for this purpose you only really need 2 bits of the same colour wire because the 4 pipes come through 2 sets of holes (so you only need to know which pipe feeds the most forward cylinder through each hole)... To save a bit of time ensuring routing was correct when ECUs didn't feature ability to switch cylinders back to petrol I used to do the 4 different coloured wire thing, then did the 2 same coloured wire thing, these days I'd quickly identify correct routing anyway and just swap injector plugs around to achieve it. Could use stripes of tippex on pipes to denote which cylinder they run to.

With that pipe off at the manifold end it will have been causing some upset for the petrol system too... fuel trims will have been more positive (mostly on the directly affected bank but also on the other bank), the cylinder with the missing pipe will have been running way leaner than the other 3 on the same bank, the other 3 would have been running a slightly rich mixture. All these effects would have diminished with increasing engine load as a vacuum leak has more effect when there is more vacuum but when an engine management system has a limited number of fuel trim ranges if fuel trims become high at low loads it can have the effect of initially causing too rich a mixture at higher loads and if that initial mixture is rich enough it can cause misfires which then cock up the closed loop functionality.. and then open loop at idle the mixture is very lean (without positive trims) due to the vac leak. You probably didn't need the new lambda probe.

Simon

davew wrote:

But how did you know I was a Scouser with a 'tash ??

Maybe I didn't... Or maybe I searched for davew on BT's website and a detailed profile with address etc came up lol ;-)

If you got routing wrong It might be a bit lumpier at idle and during acceleration but might still run fairly smoothly most of the time. You'd notice it mostly during switching from petrol to LPG because there'd be a point when at least 2 cylinders were misfiring at the same time.

With the engine running on petrol pull each pipe off each injector in turn and make sure there's vacuum on them (replace pipe each time before checking the next one)... this is to check a pipe hasn't come off a manifold spud. Then with the engine off try blowing through each pipe, if any are much harder to blow through than others the pipe might be kinked. It would take a much worse kink to cause a misfire at idle (when only a small amount of gas has to flow through the pipe) than at higher engine loads.

Not had that PM from you yet Dave, just found this thread myself ;-)

I've just checked your LPG system map, I didn't set a fuel trim in it but would have set one if for any reason I thought necessary.

On your LPG system it's possible to set individual trims for individual cylinders, if any cylinder was acting strangely in the way it responded to running on gas I would have first checked that no aspect of the LPG install was causing that (and changed LPG parts if necessary) or drawn conclusions about your car and written you a bit of a report on it. I didn't set any individual cylinder trims.

Not saying any of the following insights will lead to diagnosis of the problem but any of them might..
A failing lambda probe can stop giving proper signal on gas before it stops giving proper signal on petrol. Another thing that can bugger lambda probes is contact with engine coolant.
Your LPG injectors are on a rail but they are individual units on a rail... so (remembering your misfire codes for 4 cyls on the same bank) it's extremely unlikely 4 on the same rail would go wrong. But if one went wrong so causing dodgy fuelling (especially if dodgy fuelling led to a misfire on that cyl) it would mess up fuelling for the other 3 cyls on the same bank and could lead to misfires on any cyls on that bank.
Leaky petrol injector.
Duff LPG ECU could cause more than one cylinder to misfire straight away but very unlikely with your ECU... the output (LPG injector) driving electronics of some other LPG ECUs use common electronics for more than one output channel (so outputs usually cock up in pairs) but it seems your ECU (and most others) use discrete electronics for output channels so channels go down individually and I've never known a channel go down on your type of ECU.
Since you've had the manifold off... Crimped pipe between LPG injector and manifold, Crimped / shorted petrol injector break wiring, Routing (check plugs to LPG injectors and pipes between LPG and manifold match up... you don't have to remove anything except plugs to LPG injectors for this. Another indicator of problem routing is if it sputters particularly badly at some point like it's down to running on 6 or less instead of 7/8?).
Individual spark plug / lead
Compression or valve lift/timing on an individual cylinder

Would have to penetrate my tin foil hat then thick skin, especially that at the back of my neck :P Who's after my neck now anyway lol ;-)

Best not open a thread on Brexit eh. Leave that to the Pistonheads lot lol.

This situation probably helps put things in context lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA

Not down to me to be a middleman in any argument here and I'm not going to re-read where argument may have got a bit heated or try to explain away what was said or how I interpreted it at the time.. but if people are interested in debate it would be a good idea to let any (perhaps inevitable) heated bits be bygones and others might chime in again. I've met some of the people on thread, all very reasonable, clever and I have no doubt very good at their jobs.

I'll leave it a bit before I come out with any more daft analogies / examples... but for what other reason might I possibly want a Faraday cage?

I'm not being deliberately facetious or trying to wind you up.. but on a friendly forum like this it should be OK to include a bit of humour?

Seems most or all of what you just said refers to individuals (people)... Doesn't this debate all boil down to whether people are being identified by BT? It doesn't seem you'd have a strong enough case that people are being identified by BT.

Along the lines of the Sweeney example much more fault would be attributed to who pulled a knife or shooter rather than who was in the right or wrong over parking privileges, couldn't directly blame the hotspot for causing a dispute over parking privileges, the hotpsot map doesn't even say there's anywhere to park. If the property owner was in the right they could have reported the van to police (granted they wouldn't turn up!).. To what extent could the hotspot or vague map of hotspot locations be blamed for inciting a dispute and/or violence? There are vaguely similar low tech situations... e.g. Man Utd play Millwall, both teams like their fans to buy and wear kit (which might identify which end of the country they come from, at least identifies which team they support) and like away fans to buy tickets for their grounds but is this really the route cause of punch ups between fans or is it stupid fans that want trouble that are the problem? Should fans only wear identifying kit if they somehow opted in or is it obvious they're going to provide others with some vague info about themselves just by buying/wearing the kit and have opted in to that by default by buying/wearing kit? Millwall / Man Utd fans could opt out of identifying themselves at any time by just not wearing the kit but they did choose to buy the kit in the first place and why else would they buy a kit if they're not going to wear it... Why buy from an ISP that by default allows you to use other hotspots - obviously at other customers addresses (or where might we expect them to be) so pretty obvious that your address will be a hotspot - if you don't like that? Note to self.. 1/10 for clarity, analogy and the example Simon lol.

davew wrote:

The main point is that such data combined with that on other databases then allows a PERSONAL PROFILE to be MADE

Reckon I was the first to point out that hotspot location could be combined with land registry enquiries to find the name of the owner of a property with a hotspot?
If there's only a problem when data from multiple databases is combined, aren't the other databases (in multiple) equally guilty.. which even in your view could make government equally as guilty as BT because they offer access to the other database? Maybe even more so... Someone checking BT's hotspot map could easily argue they wanted to know where they could get net access / a milkman might think he really fancied the daughter at that house he used to deliver to but never did get her surname, worth the £3 to get her name by checking land registry records, no other reason to be searching land registry records but no questions asked. Every property owner is opted in on the land registry service without signing up to anything.