BrianH wrote:
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
Just read something interesting on another forum. Guy with similar problems was getting P1319. He doesn't mention the O2 sensors though. Says car running not to bad on lpg but on petrol was rubbish. He tried all sorts from coil pack, ht leads, nothing worked. He eventually took it to landrover who plugged it in, reset the fuel values and it was fixed.
The reply to him was someone saying that the long term fuel trims were so far out that the short term trims cant go wide enough to fuel it properly and that the LPG should be serviced and adjusted up properly.
Any of that apply to me?
You should be able to view the trims in Torque - What are they showing? Both banks and long and short term?
Already done. Read full topic for back story.
Just read something interesting on another forum. Guy with similar problems was getting P1319. He doesn't mention the O2 sensors though. Says car running not to bad on lpg but on petrol was rubbish. He tried all sorts from coil pack, ht leads, nothing worked. He eventually took it to landrover who plugged it in, reset the fuel values and it was fixed.
The reply to him was someone saying that the long term fuel trims were so far out that the short term trims cant go wide enough to fuel it properly and that the LPG should be serviced and adjusted up properly.
Any of that apply to me?
so whats your advice GilbertD?
Lpgc wrote:
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
a bit over my head mate i'm afraid. i'm muddling through and trying to fault find using the advice given.
Tartarini made various types of LPG system, some earlier advice is only relevant to the newer type of Tartarini system which uses pulsing LPG injectors. If you post a pic of your engine bay we can tell you which type of LPG system you have.
Simon
pictures of engine bay
https://ibb.co/fFZWt5
https://ibb.co/gzYPD5
https://ibb.co/fecO6Q
P1319 is for low fuel isn't it. As in the engines not getting enough. Not that i need to go put a tenner in.
I've tried monitoring fuel pressure with torque but i get no data from that.
so i unplugged the lpg ecu completely. Wouldn't start. turning over no bother. I guess the immobiliser or something is connected into that ecu. Plugged it back in but i didnt connect the power to it and she started.
Still not right but it drives much improved with the lpg ecu not powered up. looked at diagnostics. still 0.0volts on o2 and fuel trims were not moving on bank 2.
until.........
I put my foot down on a nice bit of straight and the bank 2 fuel trims moved. Then they went back to nothing.
Looked at fault codes and the only one listed is P1319. No others. Cleared the code and went for another cruise round. Checked codes again, still P1319 but nothing else.
It would seem with no power to lpg system, it doesn't develop the 02 faul codes. However, O2 on bank 2 still reads 0.0v and never moves.
Car sounds a little bit like an old beetle.
One thing i haven't done is check that theres voltage at the O2 sensor. Probably shoulda done that first. Ignition on but car not started and see if there's 12v?
appreciate the help everyone.
a bit over my head mate i'm afraid. i'm muddling through and trying to fault find using the advice given.
found a wiring diagram for (i think) my lpg ecu.
Says that violet and grey go to lamba sensor. On my lpg ecu, there is only 1 violet wire so i'll assume thats it. Also GilbertD said about a purple wire. So, there is Violet, a grey wire in next pin and opposite them is violet with a black stripe, and grey with a black stripe. The black striped ones i'd assume are for the opposite side O2 sensor. Again, i can't find anywhere on the loom that they have been spliced in, but it is all inside sheathing and quite well done.
Should i stick it all back together and run it with the lpg ecu disconnected????
now that i think about it and look at it. i'm thinking it is standard, and that the heatshrink is ground wires converging?
i've disconnected the lpg ecu. as a pre-emptive next move. The system is Tartarini Auto.
right. Removed ecm.
Found blue wire that goes to pin 16. Followed it into the loom a bit and there's other stuff tacked onto it. Does this look standard???
https://ibb.co/kLRamQ (heat shrinked wires. are these an addition for the lpg??)
https://ibb.co/kUvqLk (blue wire for Bank 2, O2 Sensor with a red wire which ill assume is bank 1?)
https://ibb.co/f0NsY5 (heatshrink wires end up joining the blue and red wire. And theres a 3rd in there which im assuming is ground?)
Gilbertd wrote:
On a Thor, nothing. That's where the ECU lives on a GEMS and for some unknown reason they left it in on the Thor. People often use it to keep jump leads, spare sandwiches or an LPG ECU. If there's wires coming out of it, I would suspect that's where the LPG ECU is living.
Ok. Just looks factory. If it is LPG ECU, like i say it's be done rather nicely.
i'll post a picture of the lpg install on the other car tomorrow. Not quite as pro!
Out of interest, whats in the box behind the battery? Thats got all sorts of wires coming out of it too.
and although it may be obvious, but i haven't done it, should i unplug the O2 and check there's 12v there?
Great stuff. Was looking for that in Rave. I'll get to it tomorrow when i get home. Since you don't have a thor, Do you wanna buy one? Full years test as of today. lol Nothing wrong with that one. Sweet as a nut on petrol and gas.
I know i seem to ask alot of questions but it does pay dividends. The 6 p'S. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Thanks Mr G
Gilbertd wrote:
That's the one. You shouldn't need to wiggle it out if you are just looking for extra wires tapped into the ECU wiring. They should be fairly obvious as being extras.
Wires have a sort of corrugated plastic tube over them. Nothing obviously been tapped in. Does look nice and tidy under the bonnet so i think it was a really good install when done. Perhaps the wires are not obvious?
Do i just lift the two tabs and lift the black box out in one? upwards? sidewards?
Gilbertd wrote:
This guy had exactly the same problem on a Thor fitted with a Prins LPG system https://rangerovers.pub/topic/354-02-sensor-voltage-fixed-low
Interesting read. He had the idea of unplugging the lpg too. Except he says he removed both the positive and negative. I just removed the fuse at the battery end as i figured that would break the circuit. LPG wasn't lit up on dash so i assume it did??
I really need to be getting into this ecu box and poking about for that wire you're on about. Do the O2 sensors tell the LPG to turn on when it's up to temperture?
tried it whilst waiting. No difference.
So is it the box behind the cruise diaphragm? Lift the 2 tabs and wiggle it out somehow?
Gilbertd wrote:
There will likely be a feed from one of the O2 sensors to the LPG controller. It'll likely be a purple wire and be connected in the petrol ECU box. Disconnect it. The LPG system doesn't need it, it's there so you can monitor the lambda sensor output on the LPG software but it isn't unknown for a stray voltage from the LPG system to confuse the petrol ECU. Output signal from the RH bank sensor arrives at the petrol ECU on pin 16 of C0635 (24 pin black plug) on a blue wire so you will be looking for something tee'd into that
hmm. the black box, with two lifty up tabs on top behind cruise control diaphragm? That's not coming out easy. It's well hemmed in by other gear. Lpg ecu is all installed around that. Can i unplug the lpg? Looks like there might be a direct feed to it from the battery with an inline 15a fuse? will pulling that fuse wield the same test????
Changed o2 sensor.
Still same.
Bank 1 - moves in both o2 voltage and Fuel trims.
Bank 2 - O2 volts read 0.0 and fuel trim doesn't shift from 0.0 neither.
What's my next move?
dazer2000 wrote:
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
A bit more info that most likely relates to this.
Was talking to GilbertD about a rough idle. I said i'd chucked some injector cleaner in there but it hadn't seem to help. Thats when i got on with thinking about getting in there and cleaning them.
Yesterday, i started it up and it immidiately revved to 2000rpm and climed slowly to about 2500rpm. Eventually settled down and i took the Mrs to McDonalds for her hangover burger pick me up.
When i got home, i googled the problem and since i still have the other p38 (which i know works fine), i was able to go parts robbing. I first changed the IAC valve. Started the car but didn't recreate the issue. Probably since it was warm. I figured while i was there, why not swap the MAF too and be done with it. I thought the idle was much better.
Today i started her up and she ticked over nicely. Went about 1 mile up to the shop and by the time i got there, the idle was rough. Also Noticeable when your just coming to a stop, it's as though your about to stall a manual car. Then it settle down once you're at a complete stop. Once you're on Gas it's about 80% improved but still not right.
I have no issues once we're moving. Gear changes all good. No pops or stutters.
Have you checked that one of the cats is not blocked, if its when warm it means that the cats are getting to work and on gas it will flow slightly better, just a point I thought I would put accross as I have just done a de cat and a center box delete and she does seem to run alot better on petrol at least !
I haven't done this. However, data shows that there's nothing going on with bank 2 and the sensor is before the cat isn't it?
Confirmed fix!