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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse.
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Labour seem into the idea.

But i believe it'll be a "rent only" agenda with the possibility of Private car ownership impossible.

Luckily by 2040-50 most pf the current knob'ed's will be either Dead or retired!!

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Joined: Sep 02 2016
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There are several other weird things that don't add up either StrangeRover (and I had my first doubts when they stopped the Government Grant)....

Speaking practically however I have examined the part of the (underground, ancient, pre-plastics) 'National Grid' cabling around here that was exposed for repairs and spoke to the man in the hole, and asked how many cars he thought it could be used to 'speed charge' their batteries...
His considered answer was '5-10% tops'.... and now I suspect we 'The People' would thus have to pay for 'suitably upgrading' it ?!

'Unfortunately' StrangeRover the days of Governmental 'majority rule' are apparently over or at least temporarily suspended....... and by 2040 many 'Gretas' will be in those Governments: One of the 'hidden benefits' (if there are any) of Brexit is just how aware/politicised kids have become too....

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Of course we will, we pay for everything.

The problem is that we have two choices, give up fossil fuels or learn to swim.

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StrangeRover wrote:

Personally to me it seems to be a load of carp.,

What about HGV's etc that Have to use Diesel, don't see there being an EV HGV in 10 years, unless some genius lives among us!!

Vans are another issue, basically anything commercial just can't run off of Leccytric.

The Voice for LPG seems to be getting louder though, and i've seen a fair few stories regarding LPG conversions in london going stratospheric!

I myself don't see how it would be possible for all this to happen by 2030 i thought 2040 was optimistic. LOL

LPG's growth IMO is inevitable, especially in the commercial sector, and it'll also benefit us IE more stations prolly a reasonable price too!

I'd like to think that LPG is taking off but it seems to me that it is well past its peak. There are no LPG/Hybrid cars being built by manufacturers anymore (in the UK Market, to my knowledge) and the number of forecourts selling LPG is falling.

With the rise in Diesel, there are far fewer cars suitable for conversion and many petrol powered cars are direct injection and therefore not really suitable either as the injectors are not available.

The point of LPG wasn't really to allow Petrol heads to get round the costs of running big V8s, welcome though it is!

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I know!

Weird!

In my opinion it is a pie in the sky, and the industry will find out the hard way IMO!

It'll be a multi million/Billion venture to "upgrade" lol and it won't happen tomorrow!

Eventually some will realise!

I bet the ev industry is taking alot of smack so to speak, but it isn't publicised!

This ICE ban started in the latter half of 2017 it is now 2019 fast approaching 2020 and i can't see any vast movements towards EV? in the sense of industry just alot of "talk"

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Just while we're having so much fun... don't forget the proposal to ban gas heating in new builds from 2025...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47559920

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'Tis but a proposal!

Gotta quetion why they think Leccy is 100% clean when it obviously isn't!!

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It isn't clean... yet. They're starting the changeover to electricity before it is all clean. We'll have to go to 100% renewables at some point (as soon as feasible) worldwide.
It kind of makes sense, until you look at the sheer scale of the project and it starts to look mind boggling.

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Accordingly they have already 'thought this all through' though.........eg. https://www.uknuclearsmr.org/

Fortunately their very-specific "62,857" figure made me think/realise it was an April Fools joke too...

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that is specific?

Why not knock down all the Big'uns and build a few hundred on the free land?!

Pie in the sky LOL

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Hybrids are exempt from the Ban apparently!

So they're not looking at a Petrol Armageddon!

Odd i've also learnt that some EV's have a "petrol" range extender LOL

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So will just sticking a "Hybrid" badge on my P38 cover me for it then ?

Better mention this too, even though (ominously) 'the first one won't be working until 2030':
https://www.fircroft.com/blogs/uk-government-to-invest-pounds18m-in-rolls-royce-smr-programme-92062595352
(but at least they had the sense to change their 'pitch' to 150.000 homes though......?)

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The "first one"?

So will they build a fair few and flick the switch? or will it be 1 every decade?! lol

My point about the "hybrid" is many people think the Petrol armageddon is close, but even EV's are still using this evil juice, makes ya think!!

And regarding the numbers, they seem to pull them 'oot of their arse!! lol

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StrangeRover wrote:

What about HGV's etc that Have to use Diesel, don't see there being an EV HGV in 10 years, unless some genius lives among us!!

I say start producing Rolls Royce Merlin engines again, stick them in HGV's instead of the diesel engine, convert them to LPG lol. In the meantime a couple of 500cube big block V8's in a truck would work OK. Converted another 500cube 8.1L 'Workhorse' (Chevvy) V8 in an RV last week, was collected by it's owner yesterday, have converted a few other similar and V10 RVs for the same bloke in the past, bloke is retired but keeps busy doing RV's up.

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High capacity Petrol V8's are the future lol

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What gets me about the London ULEZ is that if you are prepared to pay the fee, you can drive what you like. The Congestion Charge was supposed to discourange people from taking their cars into the zone but when you look, it isn't Aunt Mable driving in to have a look at St Pauls, it's trade vehicles. The ones that don't have a choice. The ULEZ charge is just an extension of that to raise even more money.

It has nothing to do with congestion or air quality, unlike the system introduced in France. To drive into Paris, Lyon and Grenoble you need to display a numbered sticker. They go from 0, for EVs, to 5 for Euro 4 diesels. A GEMS petrol P38 is Euro 3 so should be class 3, but, as I declared mine as running on LPG, I got issued with a class 1, the same as a Hybrid. When the pollution levels are high, the higher numbered classes are banned from the zones. I drove through Lyon and round Paris on 22nd July, when they had the heatwave we got a couple of days later. Due to the high temperatures and no wind, pollution levels were high so vehicles in classes 3, 4 and 5 were prohibilted. So had I been running on petrol, I would have had to take the outer ring roads instead of my usual route. However, class 3 isn't just Euro 3 petrol it is also Euro 6 diesel, so no matter how new it was, if you were driving a diesel, you were prohibited. Interestingly, a similar system will never work here as the sticker only costs €4.10 so they'd never make enough money from it. Despite Sadiq Khan offering grants to London taxi drivers to convert to LPG, there's no concessions for the rest of us.

Incidentally, the best day I ever had driving in Central London was the day they predicted would be the worst, the day the bus drivers were on strike!

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it will never happen the sky will not fall . it will defiantly not rain money from the sky . the first country to go all electric will be the first to collapse from loss of revenue (the worlds economy is built on fuel taxes and the automotive industry ) why is it that the charging devises aren't a part of the car and you need to stop at a specific charging point and not a standard power point. read the fine print, insert credit card here (tax grab)
the worlds problem is not carbon, its pollution ,plastics and population followed by dumb politicians who think immigration is a forward step.
bring on the civil wars and get it over and done with.

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On the topic of alternative fuels, Hydrogen could be used to run a standard ICE. You'd be able to run quite a bit of compression too as it has an Octane rating of 130 RON. With a stoichiometric ratio of 34:1 (34 parts air to 1 part Hydrogen by weight), then you shouldn't need a huge tank either.

Then there is salt water. Shell are selling the toy cars using a fuel cell that is activated by salt water, so why couldn't this be scaled up to a full sized car? Being an island we aren't short of salt water either. Or is this something that Shell hold the patent on and wouldn't allow it to be scaled up or it would reduce the amount of their petrol we'd have to buy?

Personally my view is that the renewable energy business is mostly bullshit. There's even a TV advert running for some company (it may even be Shell thinking about it) that supplies homes with renewable electricity. Now there's a good trick if you can do it. The electricity isn't renewable, you use it, you convert electrical energy into heat, light or movement. It isn't being renewed, it's being converted into another form of energy.

My prediction for the future (although I very much doubt I'll still be around to see it) is that the fission reactor will be perfected and there will be a shoe box sized one in every home and car providing an unlimited source of free energy. That is unless the likes of Shell, BP, Texaco, etc buy up the patents and research and put a stop to it......

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Been doing "Alternative energy" for 40 years as my day job.
Where appropriate, for off grid applications, it works well indeed, but needs to be "Operated" to a greater or lesser degree.
Grid tie roof top solar is a good start as even though it does not work at night, every Mw produced, is one less produced by nasty old coal.
Remember the golden rule though: For every Mw of renewable energy on a grid, wind, solar, even Hydro.....There MUST be a matching source of Firm power for it. (Coal, Gas, Nuke, Very large batteries)
So, electric cars really are part of the solution IF they are charged at home from dedicated PV systems. NOT from the Nat. Grid.
(They still have a HUGE carbon footprint tho')
For the future?
I like Salt!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor

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All this talk of salt water etc is making me wonder how big a sail I would need to do 50mph..... although the 'tacking' against the wind could be a problem of course.... but at least that could qualify as 'Dual Fuel' then for the ULEV (indirect taxation) charge ??
Anyone got map of London showing routes without low bridges ?
(Just recalled James May and his Triumph)

And the problem wih Hydrogen as fuel is we would have to modify our engines extensively (eg. '50% more expensive') and then only get '50% of the power'..... ? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle )

Hmmm... then suppose I have a big (folding) sail made of PV Cells instead and an Electric Motor ?......... Err........

Back to Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

UPDATE: Lidl are now doing Electric scooters @ £300
Too bad they can't be used (legally) on the road......