Ahh I see! I was thinking you'd bought the Hana's with a view to fitting them underneath, now makes moire sense that you had them fitted above for a long time and shifted them to underneath later.

Ahh well you've got it done and all is well.. But could've avoided hindsight regrets by asking me earlier lol ;-)

If I were putting injectors under the plenum, after trying various types in various positions under the plenum I think I'd probably end up fitting these http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/magic-jet-fx-single-injector-lpg-cng-spare/ or the same (MJFX) on rails of 4.

Void left by lack of Gems ECU is a no-brainer for the LPG ECU on Thor models.

You don't need to connect the rpm wire, no advantage in connecting it on a P38

It may be best not to connect lambda wires, when AEB ECU's get old they tend to pull voltage on the lambda connection. If you don't have an OBD2 live data scanner you might as well connect them, if you do have a scanner I'd advise leaving them disconnected.

Looking good so far.

There is quite a difference between pipe length (between injectors and manifold nozzles) and manifold nozzle distance from inlet ports, nothing that's going to effect P38 drive-ability much but out of the two it's still better to have long pipes than manifold nozzles far from inlet ports.

I now run feed pipe up outside of drivers side chassis rail on P38s, avoid running pipe inside the wheel arch and be careful with routing near the steering shaft.

There isn't really a general max pipe length or max nozzle distance from port, in both respects the max that will still deliver good results depends on aspects of the engine... A 10 inch pipe or nozzles a few inches from petrol injectors won't make much difference on an engine with big cylinders that runs normal Otto cycle but the same length / distance might make for poor drive-ability if engine cylinders are small or engine effectively runs Atkinson cycle due to variable cam timing. Becomes clearer to see if we imagine extremes of engine such as a 30cc model engine versus an engine with cylinders over a litre in capacity each... wouldn't want even a 3 inch length of 6mm internal diameter injector hose, or nozzles even an inch from ports on such a small engine, in fact we'd struggle to get injectors small/fast/accurate enough for the small engine but no problem for the big engine.

Not been online much lately, took my new (to me) big caravan to a local camp site just to set it up and check things over, make sure the awning bought separately fits etc. Seller told me everything worked, I ended up having to fix loads of things and still bringing some bits away from it to fix later.. after I've changed finished changing suspension (all 4 corners) and a wheel bearing on the car. So much for a week off!

Nearly wrote earlier, dunno if I'd prefer shiny metal coloured bananas or sweet looking black bananas. I don't much like the look of any under bonnet components, could ask a woman lol.

One thing that narks me - When in a shop paying at the til if they ask you for any or all of postcode, phone number, name, business name, email address. Tell them you don't want to give them the info and they sometimes act like you've insulted them or as though you're the exception and must be paranoid. If I'm under a car and hear my phone beep it's annoying to get out to check it just to read that summers here so I might be interested in Halfords sale on pushbike helmets or MachineMart's 20% off patio log burners.

I doubt many cold call companies will delete details from databases if asked... What can people do if they don't? Even if someone could prove they were called several times by the same firm the firm could just deny being asked to delete details from their database. Typical cold caller staff are probably on bonus for number of calls they make and business generated, more likely just to put the phone down and go on to the next cold call than to be arsed deleting your details even if they'd only have to make one click on a delete button. Can't see databases stored offshore complying with new rules or call centres not using them. Even if a firm did delete details from a database, if the database were bought in the master database would still have your details. I don't expect to stop getting calls from people looking for Simon Miles anytime soon anyway!

Used to visit computer shows where mass copied CDrom's were sold, bought one called UKInfo a database of every none ex-directory landline number in the UK searchable by phone number, address, or do things like retrieve the phone number for every house on a postcode. Nothing like as in-depth data on people as discussed here and only the same info as in a phone book but even that could still be used by a cold call centre to automatically dial numbers in a target area.

My son set up a Raspberry Pi as a web filter at his house, i'm behind the times now when it comes to IT and don't remember if he said it had any benefits besides filtering ads?

No probs Dave :-)

Courtesy of 'Sorceror' on LPGforum

I knew about the Firefox fix, didn't know about the Chrome fix

I have run Faro through one side of a separated tank vent but usually it's best to run the fill and engine pipes through different halves of the split (not all brand vent pipes have the split/separator but GZWM usually do). TT only supply GZWM tanks these days which have the hole for vent tube almost central in the tank bottom plate. Whether the vent tube is central or offset in the bottom plate of the tank can dictate what angle you fit a split/separator in the vent tube because some angles could otherwise mean fitting either the fill pipe (Faro with 8mm straight end) and/or pipe to engine bay (either another straight Faro connector or M10/M12 threaded Faro end) with a bit of a kink. Angle of around 2 O'Clock should work well with your GZWM tank if you run the outlet pipe straight to the outlet fitting (without a loop of pipe in the middle of the tank void) or closer to 12 O'Clock if you put a loop in. You shouldn't need a loop in a 270 height GZWM tank but putting a loop in can help prevent a kink in case you're using an M10/M12 threaded Faro end on the outlet and tighten the tank end after running the pipe through to the engine bay (shorter length without a loop can otherwise kink as you tighten Faro connector as Faro twists towards the end of tightening the Faro connector pipe nut). Other tips... Put the valve in the tank after you've fitted the tank, remove the valve solenoid coil and post and fit the level sender before fitting the valve, leave the valve rather loose on it's 6 bolts until you've fitted the engine feed pipe to the valve outlet.

May be interested to know that I sell DIY kits with tech support, calibration and 'sign off' included. Really not bothered if you buy from me or a supplier, more than busy enough as it is without getting involved with DIY kits etc tbh... But if you have qualms about tech support (TT wouldn't advise the plenum mod), calibration, sign off - and there may be good reason to have qualms in more than one of those areas - taking my route is a good bet.

I dreamed up the idea of the plenum mod to get around the manifold nozzle (spud) placement and pipe length compromises that most P38 installs have.

If you think my shoes lucky scruffy in that pic (inlet plenum on link above) you'd definitely think I lucky scruffy bent over engine bays with my outlet plenum on show... not that I'd want a bloke to look at my arse lol.

I doubt you'd break anything even leaving all the electrical stuff connected while you're MIG welding.

I'm not as familiar with P38 exhausts as half of forum members but have welded lambda boss's onto them. Only issue I can see is that the 'easy access' might not seem so easy access when it comes to welding... but I'd try it without removing the exhaust as you intend and would expect to do well.. just that the welding would've been easier if the exhaust was off. Of course there's then the balance between effort to remove / refit the exhaust vs the difficulty welding with the exhaust fitted.

Why do you now need the 3rd lambda?

Edit - 2 posts crossed with this. Of course I get the 0-1v sensor for the LPG system input, question is why now? A lot of the early mixer system ECUs could only work with a 0-1v probe but most later ones can work with 0-1 0-5 and 5-0v. If the lambda signal wire is cut (so the LPG ECU can supply the petrol ECU with an emulated lambda signal via 'grey wire') then even if the petrol ECU tries to pull lambda voltage the LPG ECU will still see correct lambda voltage.

For years I've been getting calls which seem to come in spats from various call centres asking to speak to Simon Miles (I'm Simon Andrew). Calls are often from Indian call centres but sometimes from UK centres. I used to ask them to remove me from their database(s) but it made no difference. During one call from an unusually apologetic UK call centre woman I was told they get numbers from an agency, she didn't know the name of the agency, couldn't delete numbers from the agency database, couldn't let me speak to her boss. About 5 years ago I pretended to be Simon Miles just to see what it was about and to mess them about in the hope they'd delete my number. I've forgotten what it they wanted Simon Miles for but it involved them taking card details to pay for something so after dragging discussion on for half an hour I eventually made fake card details up until it dawned on them. Then I gave them a bollocking and told them I'd mess them about every time they called so it would be in their own interests to remove me from their database. Five minutes later I got a call from another number, the call centre blokes supervisor telling me in Indian English 'You are not a gentleman sir'... 'You wont want to call me again then will you' but made no difference. I also often get 'Can I speak to the owner of the business' calls and half of them don't know what business they're calling. My number is all over the net so I suppose it's something I'll always get but I have no idea where they get 'Simon Miles' from.

I saw this thread just a few minutes ago and immediately phoned RutlandRover Dave to explain what's happening, what settings are causing it and why I made those settings.

The KME ECU allows setting momentary switching back to petrol if reducer temp or gas temp fall below a certain level if engine load rises above a certain level. The feature is useful as a safeguard (to prevent issues) and is also useful for effectively allowing setting of a cool changeover temperature at light to moderate engine load but a warmer changeover temperature for higher engine loads. The two points almost imply the same thing for the majority of vehicles but there are some vehicles (very high powered but with little coolant flow, which doesn't apply to P38s) where the two points can mean different things. *Edit: The two points can mean different things on any vehicle if some problem occurs with the vehicle in future, e.g. a partly blocked heater matrix could effect reducer temp stability at high engine loads if the reducer is plumbed in series with the matrix.

I set a cooler than usual changeover temperature but set the system to momentarily switch back to petrol if higher engine load is applied while either the reducer is below 20c or gas temp is below -5c. What's happening when Dave blips the throttle so soon after changeover is engine load momentarily rising above 30% (and 30% is more than you might assume, you could probably cruise at 100mph at 30% engine load) while reducer temp is below 20c, so causing the system to switch back to petrol... only during the throttle blip and only while the reducer is cold. But Dave notes it doesn't do this when he pulls away etc in actual driving even when the system has just switched over to LPG... that's either because engine load doesn't rise above 30% during those conditions or because when he pulls away the reducer has already risen above 20c. Note that this isn't the same as what is usually considered petrol addition or inability to run on LPG flat out, the system does run on LPG under any driving condition once the reducer and gas temp (gas temp won't be a factor here) are warm enough.

If I hadn't applied the settings it might have been a good idea to set a warmer changeover temp, in which case Dave would save less money because he would be running on petrol for longer during the warm up stage..

The OMVL injectors are perhaps the best performing injectors with cold gas (I told LPG shop this a long time ago and they seem to have invented a fake review on their website from someone who says OMVL are the only injectors that work properly in Alaskan conditions lol), the reducer is unlikely to get cold enough to freeze up or spit out liquid gas (causing high pressure problems) even if he booted it when the reducer was still at the cool changeover temp I set - So if Dave wants I'd be happy to leave changeover temp as it is and disable the facility and it would be fine,, but it is probably a good idea to leave settings as they are because (as Dave said) it isn't causing a drive-ability problem and the settings help make the system pretty much bombproof... I could trip most LPG installs that change over at normal/low temps up by immediately booting it following changover to gas from a cold engine start but even I would struggle to find a way to make this install throw a wobbly other than the compromise of the hesitation reviving the engine when it's just changed to LPG from a cold start. Many installers/customers have moaned on LPGforum about getting the balance between changeover temp (money saving) and owners likelihood of booting it with cold reducer right (thus causing drive-ability and component issues) right, the KME settings can be used to allow a very cool changeover temp while preventing problems caused by too cold gas / cold reducer in case the driver boots it very soon after changeover with cool temperature setting for changeover.

Just saved a screenshot of the settings I mentioned, will upload to the net and post a link when I get time if anyone wants?

Simon

I recently paid a local mechanic to change the water pump on my Merc ML, would have done it myself if I'd had the time but I'm too busy doing what I do best (LPG stuff) and thought I might need the ML to pull a big caravan I recently bought because I haven't had chance to fit a towbar on the Elgrand I bought yet. I'd have used my MOT garage for doing the water pump but he said he was too busy and didn't want to do the water pump anyway.. but it still went to him for it's MOT straight from after having the water pump done. I normally watch the test being done but this time I left it with him and picked it up the next day. When I went to collect he said it'd passed with some advisories... he'd noted worn brake pads all round. Funny that - because I put brand new front pads on the it last year and it's only done a couple of thousand miles since, they still look new to me. I reckon he didn't even look at the car because he knows I'll sort anything that needs doing anyway. Told him not to worry I'd sort the binding OSF caliper lol.

Hehe farts, are they that temperamental?
Hugh's was reporting both pre-cat probes broken heater circuits, no signal from one of them (other working OK despite broken heater), fuel trim lean error on the bank with the working probe. I advised both probes would need changing. Also the bank with working probe consistently reads +20% ltft over all rpms/loads so the MAF might be reading too little airflow too, won't be a vac leak if it reads the same +20% at higher loads and rpms. His metal plenum gasket had RTV both sides which I cleaned off before re-assembling.

Mentioned the other day that the EML is disabled on UK spec pre-2000 P38s. Think I'm right in saying that it'll not come on due to OBD errors but should come on when ignition is turned on, then go out and not come back on again when the engine is running even if there are OBD errors?

It was me that advised Hugh he needed new lambdas, I recently converted his P38 to LPG. OBD reports both pre cat probe heater circuits are broken, one lambda still gives signal the other doesn't. Also the MAF seems to read consistently low (all loads and rpms), either that / or petrol pressure is down / or all 8 petrol injectors are flowing less than they should... so it seems MAF is the most likely of those situations. LTFT's consistently (again all loads and rpms) at around +20% on the bank that is running closed loop and it's new enough to be almost fully OBD2 compatible as opposed to showing 99% LTFT's like the older models do.

Hugh has said he isn't getting the mpg he expected on LPG, I calibrated the LPG so trims (on the good bank) are the same as trims on petrol so hopefully things will improve when the lambda's and possible MAF are sorted.

Since Hugh's I converted RutlandRover's P38 to LPG as well. Also 'effected repair' of a water leak from the throttle body on RutlandRover's... Bypassed the throttle body heater for now because it seemed the TB heater itself was leaking but left enough slack in the replacement water hose so that he can re-connect the TB heater when he's fixed the leak on it. The plastic water pipes to the TB heater snapped in many places when I only went to disconnect them from the TB lol... But it was leaking from the TB well before then and RutlandRover supplied water hose for me to prevent the red stain from below the TB from recurring. I reckon I see more problems with fragile plastic water hose on P38s with red acidic coolant than I do on P38s with blue glycol coolant...