Thanks Clive and Bri.

In the vids they just keep testing to see if the rods will melt when they touch the aluminium, though I take your point about a thin pipe could be cool at the edges but quickly get too hot and melt where heated. I picture going up and down quite a length of the pipe heating quite an area around the leak while testing with rods to prevent overheating a small area. Yet to see if it'll work lol!

Couldn't slide anything like a pipe over the outer AC pipe because it's in sections with wide fittings at each end, couldn't cut it to slide anything from the cut side because it has the inner pipe. .

Usually less pressure on the low side of an AC pump when running than there is with AC system turned off?

Seems plenty firms will recharge AC but very few will get involved in fixing it. Years ago I had a problem with AC on a Grand Voyager, it failed the vac hold test at Charlie Browns. Staff there pointed me to a guy next door who they said could repair AC systems so I left it with him for the day expecting him to stick fluorescent dye in it and tell me exactly where the leak was. When I returned he hadn't found the leak or put any dye in it, he simply told me there was a leak somewhere on it. Heated argument and I wouldn't pay him... WTF did he think I'd gone to him for when Charlie Browns told me the same very basic info for free. Think he just thought he'd chance having my trousers down, no chance lol. I really have a problem with people who do that sort of thing, there are plenty like it in the field of LPG too.

BrianH wrote:

You definitely don't want to inhale r134 via a heat source (eg a cigarette) it does something nasty, not sure its just carcinogenic I seem to remember there is other risks. This seems to suggest its poisonous in that state > https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Car-air-conditioning/Car-refrigerant-oil-filling-quantities-2114/#

That's me buggered then lol!

I do have a car here with charged AC system that will be scrapped at some point so could make sense to do as you say with the pipe between cars, I plan on cutting some AC pipe from it to practise brazing with. Still I suppose I'd need to make up the line to connect cars and the AC system on the car to be repaired will be open to the elements when I remove the pipe to fix it. How did you make the line Bri and does it run between low pressure ports or high to low port?

Thanks for replies. I probably won't connect another cars's AC system to this car's, don't have a vehicle with a running engine (to run compressor) to scrap and depleting a good car's AC charge defeats the object when could just put a partial charge in from a Halfords bottle without having to buy/make a long line. Something to remember though and I'll probably try this sometime in future in a different situation.

I saw some other videos on Youtube that make brazing the AC pipes look similarly easy as in the MachineMart video but on thin AC pipes, the surface tension of the melted rods almost magically spanning and filling holes without filling the pipe with braze... which is what I'd need because the pipe I need to fix has another pipe running inside it (visibly one pipe runs to rear AC because the second pipe runs inside it), don't want to fill the void between interior and exterior pipes.

Started with doubts about how well a brazed repair would hold, then on how difficult it would be to do the job (skill). The videos made me more confident in both respects, now still confident on braze effectiveness but a bit less confident in terms of skill, Clive's points agreed with my initial doubts. I will be trying it and if I can't fix the pipe could maybe lower ambition and braze the inny-outy pipe shut so at least the front AC will work or increase ambition and run two pipes to a different rear evaporator. Seen some videos where they make brazing fittings (such as for crimping rubber AC pipes to) onto AC pipes look even easier than repairing holes..

Different connections, also I think R134 has a higher working pressure than propane or R12 systems so an R134 system might not work on propane even if the seals don't fail?

Seals failing are reason I now won't pressure test with LPG... I'm surprised I was lax on that, thanks!

Still the hypothetical scenario where someone turns up at an AC shop with a none working R132 system full of LPG... Must have happened to someone, I was considering taking the AC fill pipe off the Halfords kit and connecting to an LPG source to pressure test, others will have read a bit on the net about some AC systems using propane and thought of chancing filling their system from a Calor bottle (maybe not to leak test but to recharge). What happens regards the AC machine and if the machine is broken what are the AC mans options (machine warranty, recourse on vehicle owner, etc)? I know machines recycle the gas and oil that they extract, does this mean they pump it into someone else's car or store it to send off for recycling?

Besides flammable, aren't some AC gases carcinogens if they come into contact with a flame or UV?

How do you know what's floating around in any aircon system though? Must be a few people that have read on the net that propane can be used in some aircon systems and tried filling R134 systems with it.

Another reason for thinking of using CO2 or LPG is that my large compressor broke years ago and I never bothered fixing it, started preferring electric tools rather than pneumatic for LPG work.

Yeh and I suppose there'll be a bit of water vapour in there now anyway with it having the leak low down under the back of the car. Can't be a massive leak, I got the aircon working for a few minutes just using a Halfords recharge kit but knew it was going to fail when she heard the hissing (better hearing than mine, 10 years younger + didn't spend 20 years DJing).

Have to wonder what effect LPG or CO2 would have on their machine... imagine them assuming it'll just have R132 and air in there until smoke starts pouring out of the machine lol, don't see it being a problem but can't be sure, or may be a problem when they come to recycle the gas... although nitrogen can't be a problem.

Do you reckon the DIY head repair would work using this stuff?

See the video on the this page https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/aluminium-repair-starter-kit/

Fix your own aluminium cylinder head where pitted on the compression gasket land due to a blown head gasket / easily fix holed aircon pipes? Would you have faith this would work?

I have a leaky aircon pipe (not on a P38), haven't looked where the leak is yet but the missus could hear it was near the back wheel. When I get time plan is to pressurise the AC system (with CO2 or LPG because DIY AC gas refills are expensive, I don't have nitrogen and don't want to shove water vapour in with compressed air), locate the leak, remove pipe and hopefully use this stuff (cheaper from Ebay) to braze and fix it. If that works I might let an AC firm suck all the gas out and refill... but wonder if it CO2 / LPG would be a problem for their machine?

Gilbertd wrote:

Nice job but one thought occurs. Why didn't you run the wiring to the tank in at the same time as the pipe? Now you've got to grovel under the car again, with the associated crap in the eyes, to do that.

On most vehicles including P38s I just tape wires to end of pipe before routing pipe. When pipe is routed I tie wires to pipe as I fix pipe with pclips. Had more than enough crap in my eyes for 20 lifetimes! Can't do it on all models of vehicle but can on most, especially easy ones like P38s ;-)

Ahh I see! I was thinking you'd bought the Hana's with a view to fitting them underneath, now makes moire sense that you had them fitted above for a long time and shifted them to underneath later.

Ahh well you've got it done and all is well.. But could've avoided hindsight regrets by asking me earlier lol ;-)

If I were putting injectors under the plenum, after trying various types in various positions under the plenum I think I'd probably end up fitting these http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/magic-jet-fx-single-injector-lpg-cng-spare/ or the same (MJFX) on rails of 4.

Void left by lack of Gems ECU is a no-brainer for the LPG ECU on Thor models.

You don't need to connect the rpm wire, no advantage in connecting it on a P38

It may be best not to connect lambda wires, when AEB ECU's get old they tend to pull voltage on the lambda connection. If you don't have an OBD2 live data scanner you might as well connect them, if you do have a scanner I'd advise leaving them disconnected.

Looking good so far.

There is quite a difference between pipe length (between injectors and manifold nozzles) and manifold nozzle distance from inlet ports, nothing that's going to effect P38 drive-ability much but out of the two it's still better to have long pipes than manifold nozzles far from inlet ports.

I now run feed pipe up outside of drivers side chassis rail on P38s, avoid running pipe inside the wheel arch and be careful with routing near the steering shaft.

There isn't really a general max pipe length or max nozzle distance from port, in both respects the max that will still deliver good results depends on aspects of the engine... A 10 inch pipe or nozzles a few inches from petrol injectors won't make much difference on an engine with big cylinders that runs normal Otto cycle but the same length / distance might make for poor drive-ability if engine cylinders are small or engine effectively runs Atkinson cycle due to variable cam timing. Becomes clearer to see if we imagine extremes of engine such as a 30cc model engine versus an engine with cylinders over a litre in capacity each... wouldn't want even a 3 inch length of 6mm internal diameter injector hose, or nozzles even an inch from ports on such a small engine, in fact we'd struggle to get injectors small/fast/accurate enough for the small engine but no problem for the big engine.

Not been online much lately, took my new (to me) big caravan to a local camp site just to set it up and check things over, make sure the awning bought separately fits etc. Seller told me everything worked, I ended up having to fix loads of things and still bringing some bits away from it to fix later.. after I've changed finished changing suspension (all 4 corners) and a wheel bearing on the car. So much for a week off!

Nearly wrote earlier, dunno if I'd prefer shiny metal coloured bananas or sweet looking black bananas. I don't much like the look of any under bonnet components, could ask a woman lol.

One thing that narks me - When in a shop paying at the til if they ask you for any or all of postcode, phone number, name, business name, email address. Tell them you don't want to give them the info and they sometimes act like you've insulted them or as though you're the exception and must be paranoid. If I'm under a car and hear my phone beep it's annoying to get out to check it just to read that summers here so I might be interested in Halfords sale on pushbike helmets or MachineMart's 20% off patio log burners.

I doubt many cold call companies will delete details from databases if asked... What can people do if they don't? Even if someone could prove they were called several times by the same firm the firm could just deny being asked to delete details from their database. Typical cold caller staff are probably on bonus for number of calls they make and business generated, more likely just to put the phone down and go on to the next cold call than to be arsed deleting your details even if they'd only have to make one click on a delete button. Can't see databases stored offshore complying with new rules or call centres not using them. Even if a firm did delete details from a database, if the database were bought in the master database would still have your details. I don't expect to stop getting calls from people looking for Simon Miles anytime soon anyway!

Used to visit computer shows where mass copied CDrom's were sold, bought one called UKInfo a database of every none ex-directory landline number in the UK searchable by phone number, address, or do things like retrieve the phone number for every house on a postcode. Nothing like as in-depth data on people as discussed here and only the same info as in a phone book but even that could still be used by a cold call centre to automatically dial numbers in a target area.

My son set up a Raspberry Pi as a web filter at his house, i'm behind the times now when it comes to IT and don't remember if he said it had any benefits besides filtering ads?

No probs Dave :-)

Courtesy of 'Sorceror' on LPGforum

I knew about the Firefox fix, didn't know about the Chrome fix

I have run Faro through one side of a separated tank vent but usually it's best to run the fill and engine pipes through different halves of the split (not all brand vent pipes have the split/separator but GZWM usually do). TT only supply GZWM tanks these days which have the hole for vent tube almost central in the tank bottom plate. Whether the vent tube is central or offset in the bottom plate of the tank can dictate what angle you fit a split/separator in the vent tube because some angles could otherwise mean fitting either the fill pipe (Faro with 8mm straight end) and/or pipe to engine bay (either another straight Faro connector or M10/M12 threaded Faro end) with a bit of a kink. Angle of around 2 O'Clock should work well with your GZWM tank if you run the outlet pipe straight to the outlet fitting (without a loop of pipe in the middle of the tank void) or closer to 12 O'Clock if you put a loop in. You shouldn't need a loop in a 270 height GZWM tank but putting a loop in can help prevent a kink in case you're using an M10/M12 threaded Faro end on the outlet and tighten the tank end after running the pipe through to the engine bay (shorter length without a loop can otherwise kink as you tighten Faro connector as Faro twists towards the end of tightening the Faro connector pipe nut). Other tips... Put the valve in the tank after you've fitted the tank, remove the valve solenoid coil and post and fit the level sender before fitting the valve, leave the valve rather loose on it's 6 bolts until you've fitted the engine feed pipe to the valve outlet.