Wind up partially worked ;-)
My nearest garage with LPG is a services on the A1 2 miles away, there are another 5 or so within about 7 miles all cheaper than the A1 (and especially cheap at the Calor depot) but for convenience I tend to fill new conversions on the A1 and I'll top up my car there if desperate. The permanently fixed tank on my car will hold about 65L but I usually have a second tank in the boot holding another 80L (not much bother to remove it if I need the space). If I need anything like the 145litres the combined tanks will hold I'd rather make a special trip to Calor or another of the cheap garages, saving maybe £15 of the price I'd pay at the A1, £13 if I factor in the extra driving.
Simon
I don't know much about what diesel engines were fitted in Rangerovers other than Smiler's DSE probably doesn't have the 2.5td 4 cylinder VM engine (6 cylinder BMW engine?). Did some Rangerovers have the VM engine (I was under the impression they did)? I had the VM engine in a Ford Scorpio (ugly bug eyed model), it did the business but I had to helicoil it's rocker bolts and had to fit another alternator when the vac pump (rear of alternator) oil seal went and dumped oil into the alternator. The alternator was the same as a Transit diesel's except the pulley had a greater number of grooves for the wider fanbelt. Transit alternators cheap and aplenty, Scorpio diesel alternators expensive and few/far-between. Can't remember if I fixed the original alternator (rear bearing) or fitted a Scorpio pulley onto a Transit alternator. Bought the car cheap because it'd already done high mileage and the drivers electric seat would lean back but wouldn't lean back forwards, the switch itself had broken... a 30 minute fix using another switch and a relay that switched polarity to the seat motor when the original switch was operated to lean back if the new switch was in the on position. . I added another 100000 miles on that car and sold it when a manual gearbox bearing went at 260000 miles, mostly on red stuff / veg oil. The 2.9 petrol would have been as cheap to run if converted to LPG and if I'd paid for normal diesel. I once did 1000 miles in a 1.7 diesel Astra for £18 of fuel but these days LPG is the cheapest way to go, could say you get the nicer engine note, power and drive-ability as a bonus ;-)
Oops, my thread but I wasn't watching it...
Gilbertd wrote:
Any idea who did the original install? Usually the only time anyone says they don't like LPG is when the system doesn't work properly so they assume all LPG converted cars don't run right. I've had people comment about mine and ask how I put up with all the hassle and they don't believe me when I tell them it never gives any hassle, runs just as well, if not better, on gas than petrol and costs me less to run than a diesel. No brainer in my opinion and if it were my car I'd tell Guy Salmon where to stuff it (not that I'd be seen dead taking a car to a main dealers anyway).
I don't know who fitted it, owner said it ran OK on LPG he just didn't want it.
Obviously I agree with all the pro LPG sentiments on this thread! It was either I remove it or he'd get someone else to remove it, the owner didn't want the conversation about why, had already decided.
I meant to reply, sorry.
Map depends on at least brand of injectors selected / fitted, pressure (setting and actual) and to a lesser extent brand of ECU...
Since the laptop I'm using is relatively new and my old laptops died there's a smaller chance I'll have a relevant file now than might have been a few years ago when I used the same laptop long term, but if you tell/remind me your make of system I'll have a look.
Simon
I know my way around Cornwall pretty well really, been most years. I did get into Padstow this year before Boardmasters, St Ives too although got caught out by the sunny weather instantly changing to torrential rain... caught the bus back up the hill to the car park (lol) and went on to LandsEnd. Been thinking about taking the boat to Gorran Haven. Bought my first GrandVoyager from a guy near Padstow, brought it back on a trailer pulled by my 4L GrandCherokee with homemade baked beans can mixer.
I'm back home now. Passed through St Austell loads of times while in Cornwall... with the SRS light glowing in my ML all the while!
The last time I passed through St Austell was enroute to Mevagissey from Padstow. Went to Padstow from Newquay but couldn't find a parking slot around Padstow due mostly to all those kids that were around for Boardmasters...
super4 wrote:
Hi folks - LPGc in particular ! have taken good note of all advice but when it comes to Autocal - starting on petrol - I see it is necessary to run at a particular RPM and not make any change on the accelerator as the ECU carries out its calibration - the question is - what starting RPM should one begin with ?
The software will tell you the rpm range, aim for an rpm in the middle of that range. Different AEB systems use slightly different rpm ranges.
Morat wrote:
Hehhe. I guess if they could demonstrate that the alternator was taking X% of the engine output to generate Hyrdrogen which boosted the engine by >X% at the same load they'd have a case.
Bet they didn't though :)
Some of them are conspiracy theorists and reckon it's been possible to run cars on 100% hydrogen generated by a big enough alternator on the engine for many years, except oil companies suppressed the technology! There's no telling most of them - Point out that the little bubbles of hydrogen their systems make wouldn't be 1/10000th of enough hydrogen to run the engine on and they talk about up-scaling their systems. Point out that their systems currently draw maybe an amp (by their own reckoning) and 10000amps at 12v would be 120000 watts (or 161hp), from a system that even on this scale is only capable of providing enough gas for a 100bhp engine and they reckon you're part of the conspiracy or that you must be missing something! One 'firm' told me it works the same way as power from a hydrogen bomb and nobody understands how an H bomb works!,So I explained how a H bomb works lol. Very loose figures provided by me here but I did go to the length of doing the sums properly at the time.
On Porth Beach Newquay campsite as I write, surrounded by VW campervans, half of which are actually just VW vans with sleeping bags chucked in the back. I don't get the following VW enjoy... Maybe at one time if someone wanted a German engineered vehicle they might be the first/only choice, but these days? Maybe given the emissions scandal there might one day be a callback on VW's - bring in your TDI smogmotion and we'll swap out the engine for an electric motor lol! Maybe they have such a great following because people still admire the bloke who inspired the marque... then again maybe not.
Not P38 related but I had a problem with the alternator on my Chrysler people carrier the other week...
The charge light would come on with the engine running. At first I suspected a slipping belt but as the time between starting the engine and the light coming on seemed to be getting shorter and it turning out that the belt wasn't slipping, I came to suspect the brushes (an easy enough and cheap fix, just have to order the brushes from a local alternator specialist). I didn't want to wait for the alternator specialist and as I have a spare (for scrap) same model vehicle I thought I'd just swap that one's alternator in for the time being. I went as far as removing the alternator from the spare car before I realised that with the engine running I could see the alternator internals spinning slower than the alternator drive hub - It has one of those clutch/freewheel drive hubs and it turned out that was slipping. To prevent the same thing happening again I simply removed the air filter to access the front of the alternator and mig-welded the alternator drive without even removing it, so it's not the clutch type anymore! Took care to first tack the mig's earth wire to the pulley itself so as (hopefully) not to damage the regulator and kept the hub cool with water between brief welding so as not to damage the bearings. Better than new in my opinion, less to go wrong and can't tell any difference for lack of the clutch.
I'm in Kernow at the moment, not seen much to hint at the call for independence yet but I expect to see the black Kernow flag and something about independence still painted on a bridge over the Northbound A30 on my way home, been there since about 1989.
Gilbertd wrote:
Because nothing is 100% efficient so you would always need more power to turn the alternator than it is capable of generating. You could, in theory, use an electric motor to turn a generator which would produce the power to turn the motor so you'd have a perpetual motion machine, something that would continue spinning all day long. But it won't because to generate the amount of power needed to turn the motor the generator would need more power than the motor can supply. You never get anything for nothing.
Almost the same with those hydrogen generation systems you can buy to fit to your car. They run on electric,generated by the alternator to turn water into hydrogen which, they reckon, in turn makes the engine more powerful and economical when it is fed as fuel to the engine. But there's no way that can work, except on a really inefficient old diesel where the addition of a bit of hydrogen increases the efficiency at which the engine burns the diesel. Over the years I have been approached by many firms who wanted to work in partnership with me on this type of hydrogen supplementation system (me doing all the fitting and, apparently, most of the tech sales talk too). I turned them all down except to tell them that I would fit them if they found an owner who was dead set on having such system fitted, but even then I wouldn't recommend such a gimmick or plug it's 'merits' even to their already convinced customer. They all missed the point that it takes more power from the alternator to make the hydrogen than could be gained by burning it even if the engine was 100% efficient.
The concept of charging a different rate for electricity depending on time of day has been fairly mainstream since 'Economy7'. I'm probably a bit young at 47 to have been directly affected but over the years governments and various energy firms have tried to push some implausible schemes on the public including Economy7, 'Come home to a real coal fire', 'Heat electric', 'Save it', etc. But I was under the belief smart meters were a necessity of the solar panel electric sell back to grid scheme, and solar panels partly due to the Kyoto Agreement. Another one of those types of agreements UK governments sign up to and then stick to when other country governments sign up but don't stick to the agreement unless it works in their countries interests. I remember when coke (from coal) was seen as the way forward - It did improve air quality in a lot of areas but too bad for those living near coking plants lol.. 7 Miles from me there was a coking plant and when the wind was in the wrong direction, the plant working in a certain way, it stunk from that distance. When I first started driving and went anywhere near it I'd put my car heater on recirc (Cortina, no aircon). All this leccy has to be made somewhere and (as Gilbert mentioned) it has to be shifted via better electrical infrastructure than we currently have...
Simon
Gilbertd wrote:
Not a problem she thought as we have charging points for some of the specialist vehicles with auxiliary batteries to keep them topped up when not being used so she figured she could plug her car in there during the day. First time she did it someone queried it and that caused all sorts of discussions. Upshot is that she has been told that under no circumstances can she plug in to charge it during the day. The argument being that nobody else gets their fuel costs for commuting to work and back reimbursed so why should she?
I'm definitely not pro electric vehicles but couldn't the firm just charge her a quid a day?
Orangebean wrote:
The joys of working in the public sector- true equality gone slightly mad. I used to work for a government agency and their rabid adherence to "benefits" rules, on-site employee car parking as a benefit and thus declarable, and their opinion that if they provided charging points for some employees they'd have to provide fuel pumps for the others (Union would have got cross otherwise), meant that even though they'd considered charging points as part of their environmental responsibility, they couldn't.
And ensure common sense prevails?
Different point - If I were forced to go full electric next month I'd make sure I had unlimited range anyway (in a fashion).. I fixed my mates 5kw genny ages ago and he hasn't collected it yet. I'd carry that in the boot with suitable exhaust system etc, probably hard wire it. See where this is going already - Go on to upgrade to a much bigger genny, bigger electric motors for the car, convert the genny to LPG, don't worry too much about the battery aspect. Unless illegal, in which case it might be a stealth install, maybe not hard-wired / hard plumbed... There might be cause to shut-off the genny before stopping for a blue light, much like some people put on their seat belt before an officer appears alongside ;-)
Simon
rickrwg wrote:
Thanks for that Simon my car isn't actually a Range Rover it is a "cough cough" 2003 Jeep V8 HO do you know if this would work with the OBD interface I would like to monitor fuel trims from the laptop as I am getting a flat spot in the mid rev range and am sure its going lean not just on gas but petrol also just more pronounced on gas if you could tell me the pin numbers it would be great so I can have a look what's happening.
I used to have pinout notes on my laptop but that was on the old laptop which broke... getting to know them again will involve either my scouring around in the garage to look for a bit of paper sent by a supplier years ago, or making my own pinout diagram from looking at a loom I have here, but I'm a bit busy to do either at the moment and will be on holiday soon as long as I get all my jobs done!
I'll come back with pinout at some point but it might not be for a while. Still, you'd be better off using an OBD2 live data scanner than connecting the OBD wires of the LPG ECU - The sample rate of the LPG ECU is a bit slow for purpose of using as a calibration aid / If you were to use the connection for purpose for which it was designed (enabling the adaption facility) it still wouldn't make up for incorrect map shape but could cause problems at other engine loads/rpm / Don't know the year, board suffix or firmware of your ECU but it might not support the OBD connection anyway. There was only a period of maybe a year where ECU's that could support OBD connection were supplied with looms that didn't have OBD wiring already connected / On some vehicles, leaving LPG ECU OBD wiring connected can inadvertently interfere with the canbus, which can cause problems ranging from minor such as inability to connect with an OBD2 scanner to far stranger and more concerning symptoms affecting anything on the canbus, even inability to crank the engine on some Mercs. Do yourself a favour and buy a cheap OBD2 live data scanner rather than wire in the LPG system's OBD connection!
Simon
Above advice is sound, I was tempted not to add anything in case it added to confusion but I think this worth saying...
As someone wrote above, if you saved your config before changing anything you could just load the saved config file and all should be well. There can be exceptions to this, though... E.g. Could have a situation where fixing a long term issue highlights other problems - Suppose the engine was running open loop due to problem code(s) due to (say) failed lambda probes. In open loop fuel trims are not applied, so if LPG calibration was wrong the engine could have been running 20% lean on petrol and 20% rich on LPG. The engine might run OKish running 20% lean on petrol or running 20% rich on LPG, in which case switching between fuels wouldn't reveal any further drive-ability problems. But, if you fix the probes and closed loop running resumes, then you run on petrol, the fuel trim needed to correct the 20% lean running on petrol is learned/applied so now the engine runs great on petrol. But then if you switched to LPG the engine would at first get a 40% rich mixture giving poor drive-ability, but eventually the incorrect LPG calibration might steer fuel trims back to -20% and now the engine might run great on LPG, but if you then switch back to petrol it will be 40% lean. I know this reads an unlikely set of circumstances, after all we would expect the LPG system to have been calibrated correctly in the first place and fuel trims on petrol not to be so extreme, but I've seen similar sets of circumstances so often this type of scenario seemed worth a mention. Other issues can be revealed after fixing an underlying issue too, such as worn LPG injectors giving some cylinders a far greater dose of LPG than others. What should be drawn from this is that when you get it running properly on petrol, make sure you check LPG calibration as soon as you run on LPG.
If you didn't save your config file but you only changed reference pressure, changing reference pressure back to what it was should do the same. If however you changed one of a few other things such as type of injectors fitted, that might have changed the map back to the default map figures for the last type of injectors you selected
Simon.
This must be a thread I didn't use topic tracker on... Late to reply again sorry.
It''s been a long time since I had to think about which pins are for the OBD connection (back when OBD connection was first introduced the loom didn't carry OBD wires but you got the OBD loom separate with pins already attached to push straight into the connector block). I could check on the pinout but there probably isn't much point - For various reasons good installers generally think it a bad idea to connect the LPG ECU to the vehicle OBD anyway. Never tried it on a P38 but results of doing so on a P38 could turn out to be very much negative unless it's a very late model. Earlier models are not fully OBD2 compatible and although code readers will connect and read live data, the fuel trim info they display might be have long term fuel trims showing at constant -100% or similar. The LPG system would read the same info and interpret it the same way as a generic OBD2 scanner so the LPG system would also read -100% fuel trims, the result of which would see the LPG system subtracting it's maximum range of -20% fuelling from what might otherwise by perfect fuelling.
Onto another question, there are various AEB boards, some look entirely different and contain different sets of components to others. AEB ECU's have been wearing Romano badges for years but King is relatively a newcomer. If the Romano system is an older board it is unlikely that firmware between it and a King ECU would be compatible given the different hardware sets. If the boards are the same year and same spec then if software allowed you to connect to any system it might be more easily possible to change firmware to whichever brand you liked but software doesn't allow that, so although it would be possible it would involve a bit of hacking...and probably not worth the effort when an 8 cylinder AEB ECU these days is about £150... Years ago the same brand ECU only of course of older spec (not truly sequential like modern AEB ECU's and lacking some of the other features too) would have cost over £500!
Other post - Yeah you could make your own single point controller but, like above, would it be worth it (unless you'd be doing it for fun!) when a controller itself is about £50. The AEB175's such as Leonardo's aren't that badly thought out and cover all of rpm detection, stepper motor driving, relay control of solenoids and lambda connection, ability to limit range of stepper motor movement, adjust speed of change of stepper position for rpm, AD converters to read TPS, lambda and much less commonly reducer temp, DA converter for programmable simulation of lambda voltage, serial link to in-cab AEB fuel changeover switch, etc. Not many guts in them but they do a lot for the money and to fully replicate the functionality yourself you'd need to not only make it but program it and maybe write another program for the laptop to adjust it's settings. There are even cheaper controllers (Bingo is one) that have all the basic functionality without the ability to set range of stepper movement or stepper position during over-run, or in fact any sort of connection with a laptop. I've never had problem connecting to an AEB175 using any version of Windows, I have seen some 175's in incorrect branded cases though, e.g. had to connect to a Millenium using Leonado software lol..
Simon
Orangebean wrote:
super4 wrote:
But here is a question for you- if that vacuum lead is broken does it affect the running ? It has been broken for much of the cars life and running problems have only recently happened
No- cruise control has its own vacuum pump and is completely self contained. Won't affect running in the slightest..
Got me scratching my head now! I have no P38 here to check on at the moment but I was under the impression cruise control on them was plumbed to manifold vacuum? Sure I've heard and corrected vacuum hissing from broken cruise control vac pipe at the firewall end of passenger side engine bay in the past, correcting cruise control function in some cases, and the other end of that pipe went to the manifold..
Orangebean wrote:
Simon- if I can just jump into super's thread and ask a quick question re the 2 banks thing?
You say:
"On an older system setting 2 cylinder banks can affect a bit more than just allowing the twiddle factor for bank 2"
What else can it affect?
I've just replumbed the LP side on mine (Zavoli Zeta S, AEB2856C, Matrix injectors) to achieve an equal pipe run to each of my Matrix injectors- previously had 1 pipe at 600mm long and 1 at 300mm long from the splitter.
Pinj numbers are now out of balance, as you'd expect, so need to rebalance, but what else will be affected?
Ta
Now back to super!
Early AEB systems are not truly sequential, they base fuelling for all LPG injectors on only the blue petrol injector wires (normally front cylinder / same channel as gas injector A and E for banks 1 and 2). Really early systems didn't even have bank trim facility. Later AEB systems are truly sequential (just about anyway!). Some not truly sequential systems can still see firing order, earlier ones can't. Where they can't see firing order firing order is presumed but changing number of banks can change presumed firing order... But since gas injector ABCD still equate to petrol cut wires blu red grn yel, if teh system supports sequential cylinder changeover (which isn't the same as the system being truly sequential) even if gas injector firing order is changed it might still switch between fuels without engine hesitation.
Customer here now, I'll recheck I've replied properly later!
You definitely need to get it running right on petrol before you do anything with the LPG.
If the lambda wires are connected (and they by no means have to be connected) the readings should fluctuate regardless of what fuel you're running on if the engine is running as it should.
This line doesn't over-ride 'running right on petrol first' - I didn't realise you'd adjusted any settings yet. If it previously ran OK on LPG (and we assume LPG calibration really was OK) and the only setting you changed was reference pressure from 1.1 to 1.5 bar (and you haven't run autocal) it might be a good idea to change ref pressure back to 1.1, or calibration on LPG will be richer than before. On an older system setting 2 cylinder banks can affect a bit more than just allowing the twiddle factor for bank 2 but since the thread is probably confusing enough already I'll just say it is necessary to set 2 banks, even if there is the chance of doing so effecting how it runs on gas a little.
Simon
Nice pics Super4.
A bit of clarification on my last post...
I wasn't implying the vehicle will be running 25% rich or lean if actual pressure is different to reference pressure.
Calibration can still be perfect it software (reference) pressure is set to a different pressure than actual pressure, just that behind the scenes the ECU will be applying a more positive or more negative pressure compensation than it would if actual and reference pressures were exactly the same. I added more info on this too , explaining why installers sometimes have good reason for setting reference pressure different to actual pressure.
The info/pic more recently brought to light on Zavoli reducers (MUST having to be set at 1.2 / 1.5bat respectively for N / S reducers) agrees with what I said about Zavoli reducers, unlike the majority of reducers, being far less pressure stable if the allen key adjuster is adjusted to outside of 1.2 / 1.5bar.
The LPG ECU doesn't look directly to lambda readings at all during autocal. Autocal asks you to run the engine on petrol at a set rpm and keep your foot steady on the accelerator even if rpm changes over the whole process of autocal. Under these conditions it first runs the engine on petrol and monitors pinj, then switches to gas and monitors pinj while it adjusts ALL of the numbers in the map (every box in the map) by the same percentage until pinjs when running on petrol and when running on LPG in the ONE box that autocal used as the basis are same.
During autocal, the only reason rpm will fall/rise and/or engine load fall/rise will be due to if there is a different mixture when switching between fuels, however, autocal repeats the process a few times and as it nears correct calibration for the one map box it refers to, engine rpm and load will stay nearer to the same when the switch of fuels occurs, so by the time it reaches it's last comparison rpm and load won't shift when it switches fuels at all - So even though the box on the map that is applied during the early stages of autocal may shift, towards the end of autocalas long as the operator keeps his foot steady on the accelerator, the box that is the basis for the process won't change.
At this point autocal has hopefully set your map so that at least the box on the map that applied to rpm and pinj during the autocal conditions (fast idle maybe 2500rpm maybe 3.5ms pinj) is set properly. This is where it gets a bit more involved and refers to the shortfall in autocal's abilities... Before you ran autocal you will have entered type of injectors in settings, the type of injectors you selected set the default numbers in the map before you even ran autocal and the transition of those numbers across (rather up and down) the boxes in the map is what we refer to as the map 'shape'. Since autocal raises/lowers every figure in the map by the same percentage, autocal doesn't change the shape of the default map. The shortfall with the default map revolves around the fact that at best it's shape could only ever be an average map, where average means best attempt at suiting the average vehicle...but this default shape probably won't suit even one specific model of vehicle. So ultimately having ran autocal the user must then still change the map manually to make the shape of the map suit the specific vehicle... After running autocal, you should still do manual tuning.
TBH I don't even run autocal's anymore except on systems that demand that it is run before allowing normal operation (BRC and ESGI two such examples). It can be quicker to manually select all the numbers in the map and adjust all of the numbers in the map by a percentage (or even not a percentage, I prefer to work with linear changes because in my experience default maps have numbers too low with too great a map slope). 2500Rpm with lower than idle pinj isn't really a much seen real world operating condition, so if I change all numbers in the map by a percentage or figure at all... I might do my first ever switch to gas on a new install under similar conditions to prevent the engine stalling due to a system that at first contains only air but I'm unlikely to get as much insight into how much of the map will look from these conditions - which pretty much says it all as to the value of autocal on a lot of vehicles. P38's / injected Rover V8's are such low demand that you'd probably get away with just running an autocal, but still the results of just adjusting pressure reference and running autocal without doing any further adjustments might mean trims/mixture is less correct than when you started out.
SImon
Gov might have a point if they say 'Youre running your cars a bit cheaper, you can afford to pay more for domestic electricity now, and transport is good for the economy, especially now it's green, etc etc'.. But I largely agree with your point on this, as in people won't stomach raised domestic or industrial leccy prices even if transport costs are offset by it. Still, you won;t be charging a future electric car with 300 mile range from a 240v 13 amp socket and any special socket wired to your house to charge an electric car could very easily be fitted with it's own meter... sorted as easily as that. Domestic and industrial leccy the same price as now, car charging leccy to include 70% duty?
Yes a 2.0tdi has more bottom end torque, but I don't think it's fully fair to say this is 'accessible power' because the power band of diesels is generally much shorter than that on a petrol and inside/outside that power band equates to the engine making all/nothing power. The petrol has a wider power band and at least will make power at 5000rpm, furthermore that power band comes in and goes out more progressively. To really push both cars you'd need to do a similar number of gear changes, it is perhaps no coincidence that 6 speed gearboxes became more sought after as diesel engine power bands got more all/nothing... but you could probably get away with fewer gear changes if instead of the 2L TD you had a 3L petrol n/a which might cost a very similar amount to run. It's also not fair to compare what's wanted for road cars to what's wanted for race cars but the point about an n/a petrol of same size and same bhp as a td diesel generally being capable of going faster around a track probably does say something about what type of engine is more flexible in terms of power bands, and throttle response is surely another aspect of nice drive-ability?
Depends on what we call very recently. It doesn't seem long ago that diesels didn't have turbos, now we have lots of run of the mill factory petrol turbos such as 1.0 Ford Ecoboost engines fitted in Fiesta's etc and not designed to be high performance... but would certainly show up a 1.0 turbo diesel.
Agreed on short trips no good for diesels. Ignoring for the moment the other points on stink and noise, lack of long journeys damages diesel dpf's and egr's. That very low rpm torque diesels are so good also implies serious engine vibration on diesels with less than 5 cylinders, which is why they need dmf's, but is also the reason they break dmf's much more regularly than petrols, and dmf's are rather expensive... In the comparison between the 2L TD and the 3L petrol above, not much guessing on which would be more likely to need a dpf, dmf, egr. Like you say, stop start driving in diesels can be a false economy. Until recently I though Adblue was something necessary to brake down the crp in chemical toilets. Just reminded myself of my mate who has some unusual greetings such as (first ever sentence to a stranger) 'Have you had a sht this morning?' and (to old mates) 'Long time no see, are you still driving that old sh*tty toilet around?' I can imagine what he'd say to anyone pouring adblue into a car he didn't like lol.
Simon