As far as I know when it comes to the Diesel vehicles.... The pump in the tank is just a lift pump to help supply fuel to the main injection pump which pressurizes it for the injectors.

The more I am reading, these guys don't actually have a clue... especially if they are charging £760 + VAT for the in - tank fuel pump swap by cutting the hole in the floor... I'd expect that sort of price (well closer to it...) if they had dropped the tank and done it properly.

But that aside for the moment - fuel quantity actuation is done inside the FIP, as your local garage have said... And as it keeps coming back to, but the garage seem to be discounting is that if the seals have been replaced and the pump timing not checked, then that will most likely give this kind of error.

Rather than type it out, I'll copy and paste a few bits from the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual for the Diesel section:

Fuel Temperature Sensor
A thermistor is also located inside the injection
pump. The fuel temperature sensor signal is used to
adjust the quantity of injected fuel, especially during
temperature extremes. The signal is also used to
back up the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor
(X126). If this sensor fails, the ECM (Z132) uses a
substitute value of 60C and only slight effects on
fuelling may possibly be noted.

Fuel Quantity Feedback Sensor
Located within the injection pump, this sensor sends
the ECM (Z132) information regarding the actual
quantity of fuel injected. Failure of the sensor or
corrupted signals will illuminate the warning lamp
and cause the engine to stall or not start. A second
check, a plausibility check against the needle lift
sensor, also takes place.

Fuel Quantity Actuator
Once again located within the injection pump, this is
a moving magnet actuator, failure of which will cause
the engine to stall or not start as the ECM (Z132) will
activate the Fuel Shut–Off Solenoid (K111).

Injection Timing
(Solenoid Valve Injection Timing
Device (K229))
This is another actuator within the injection pump.
The ECM (Z132) receives a signal from the needle
lift sensor and attempts to correct the injection timing
accordingly. If a change does not occur, then the
ECM (Z132) assumes a fault exists, activates the
warning lamp and reduces the quantity of injected
fuel.

Fuel Shut–Off Solenoid (K111)
The Fuel Shut–Off Solenoid (K111) shuts the engine
down if the ECM (Z132) detects a major fault.
Failure of the valve itself does not activate the
warning lamp, although if a short circuit occurs, the
engine will shut down.

So all of that is done in the FIP - and reading that, if the injection timing or the fuel quantity is out, then you will most likely get power problems. OK, the in tank pump may have been faulty aswell, but the issue to me lies in the FIP, and if they haven't checked or adjusted the top of the pump since the seals were done, then as far as I'm concerned, they are wasting their time, your time, and your money chasing around other things.

OK, so had more of a look and took the cover off the top of the power steering pump to see what the damage is there...

Pics first, and then my other thoughts...

So looking at it - it appears the pulley on the PS pump has come away from the centre piece which threads onto the pump shaft. I'm guessing this has then split/shredded the belt, where pieces of it have then gotten caught up in one of the idler pulleys and wrapped around the crank.

The mud shield on the crank had been pushed hard up against the front cover, but after removing the remains of the belt, I was able to lever this back into place. I've tried removing the centre of the crank pulley from the shaft, so I can get the pulley off, but no dice - it's solid on there, so looks like I'll have to change the whole pump. The pump itself feels like it turns pretty well, it's not seized and the bearing doesn't feel like it's failed - which is what I had first suspected.

Inside - well, as you can see, the bottom of the heater core has blown out. There weren't many other places it could have been from as the pipework from the engine bay is rubber up to the plastic of the heater core.

I've taken the cluster apart and it appears to be OK internally, but the HEVAC however has signs of coolant in the connector and a bit of corrosion, so that might be the cause of the glimmer of the backlight on the message centre, possibly a back-feed from the HEVAC connector - I'm going to reassemble the cluster later and try it outside of the vehicle tomorrow. Also will pull the BECM and check that, and attempt to mop up remaining coolant inside the footwell etc, so that can dry out. I have a spare Nissens Audi heater core here, so in theory I could get the dash/heater box out and the heater core replaced and that all refitted over the rest of the weekend - if my enthusiasm lasts that long - though I'm also considering a new set of blend motors, as my passenger side temp blend was throwing the occasional error last winter, so whilst it's apart and all that...

Also going to start looking at new radio/nav units and options for that. I believe Sloth is going to come up this week at come point and have a look at the engine side with me - will most likely pop up to the workshop and grab the old PS pump to swap that back on, and also I'll probably grab my other set of heads from the old engine - so if there is HG issues with this, then I can overhaul the old heads with new valve seals, and probably re-lap the valves in aswell whilst I'm at it.

Fingers crossed I can get it all done, back together, MOT'd, and some trust back in it before I have to go to Bournemouth at the end of the month - otherwise it'll be a train trip to there too!

Yeah, it is just a bit of a confidence knock - when you've tried to do it all properly and it still doesn't work! It had been a pretty average week before that, so between that happening and then the delays to get home yesterday, just kinda topped off the whole week really.

The block is Top Hatted - it was a V8 Dev short engine when I built it. I did also fit head studs at the time.
The cap did do it's job, but obviously not quick enough before the heater core got to breaking point - there was a trail of coolant and the signs that the overflow from the header tank had been working overtime - so from that, it was definitely venting as it should. The cap also was genuine LR - and was fitted along with the new engine 18 odd months ago.

I'm somewhat surprised that none of the underbonnet hoses let go, or the radiator tank didn't pop. I'm about to go out and have a look at the power steering pump and see the state of it, but from the quick look I did on the heater hoses the other day, everything cooling-system wise under the bonnet actually looks intact.

I wouldn't like to say how long the engine was running without the pump turning or after the heater core let go - It feels like it was an eternity, but it was a hill up the offramp and there was still enough power to get my up that, and I don't remember hearing any nasty noises from under the bonnet before I turned it off - though as soon as I was stopped the key was off!

I'll get a few more pictures under the bonnet as I'm going to go out now and investigate a bit more, and then fire the laptop up and upload some of them.

I must admit I have had the thought over the last couple of days that maybe I'll just scrap it, buy something cheap and reliable, and be done with P38s... I've owned them for going on 14 years now, and never actually owned anything else.

But then I take another look at it, and it is a late model, vogue spec, with the Uber comfy Oxford leather, and the other accessories on it, and I know that if I did get rid of it, I'd miss it, and then would never find another one the same, coupled with the fact of how much I've spent on it over the years on maintenance, new engine and all that I figure I should just fix it up and keep it.

Then I wonder if I'll actually trust it again, even if I do fix it up... Like, do I get another new power steering pump, or just refit the old one? Do I strip the top end down and do the head gaskets anyway to be sure? I dunno.. I might need some positive vibes from the P38 community myself on some of that... It has properly been a shit week, topped off by the van coming to pick the gear up from the show last night getting there 3 ½ hours late - meaning my nice late afternoon finish and travel home turned into me not leaving the venue until 8pm, and getting him until gone 22:30!

With that rambling aside... I mustered the enthusiasm (it was lacking - my foot is pretty sore and a bit swollen from the burns - I'll put a gross picture up tomorrow! Thank goodness I was wearing closed steel toe shoes and not something more open and comfy for the drive) today, and started stripping out the interior in the driver's area to see how bad things are inside... So far...

• Coolant in the sill, around all the wiring looms, so have pulled them out and soaked up a load of it
• Footwell carpet and foam saturated with coolant, so cut this out to attempt to dry outside the vehicle
• Coolant appear to have sprayed up in the dash, and signs of it on/in HEVAC, stereo/nav unit (this is fried... But not the end of the world as I didn't like this unit anyway!), Drivers trim panels, and the instrument cluster
• BECM seemed to be ok the other night and I disconnected the battery once it was home, so I will probably pull that tomorrow to have a look inside it and check for coolant ingress.

The cause of this was the bottom/inlet feed to the heater matrix having gone bang in a big way. Pictures to follow tomorrow. In answer to the Audi core question, yes I've had an Audi core in there about the past 7 years, with no problems. BUT it was a cheap one, not one of the Nissens units I now use. Undecided if I will replace with a Nissens Audi unit, or back to LR version with O rings. Tempted to stick with Audi version as the pipework is nicer and better for my LPG setup.

Haven't looked under the bonnet again or taken the cover off the power steering pump to see what's failed on that. Maybe tomorrow. But some of the remains of the belt isn't pretty...

Hopefully will get around to copying the pics off the phone and onto my server so I can upload here tomorrow too.

Tell them to leave it alone for the moment and let you consider your options, would be my recommendation.

I haven't looked at the part number as I've just got home, but if Dave says it's the part that needs to be removed to swap the seals and fix the leak... And that adjusting that will adjust the pump, which needs to be done after doing the seals (I think from the bits I have read, people normally scratch a line across the parts, so they line them up again properly)... But yet they are saying they haven't touched the part... But the leak is fixed... Something isn't ringing true about any of this.

Telling them to hold off ordering expensive parts that may not (and probably won't) fox the problem is within your rights to, especially if you haven't given them carter blanche to fix the problem "whatever the cost"

It sounds more and more like someone who knows P38s has to go and have a look at it, rather than letting these idiots waste any more of your time and money.

Sorry if that's a bit blunter than I usually am, but I've had a shit day and been kicked around by people myself this afternoon, which has meant I've got home about 4 hours later than I should have!

I didn't get a lot of choice as to where I stopped. As I said, there was no hard shoulder by the time I realised what had happened. Then the coolant hose or matrix let go, and I could've even see out the windscreen at 70mph. I saw somewhere to pull off and it was an onramp, and didn't fancy being at the bottom of that, so next safe place was the offramp I chose. I almost switched the engine off as I got to the off ramp, but it was pretty steep and single lane, so couldn't stop on it safely, so had to have power to get to the top. I saw the little side street turn off at the top of it and took that and shut down.

The stretch of the A419 I was on is also nice and straight and people always scream down there at a lot more than 70. If there had even been a soft grass verge I probably would have taken a punt on that, but there was the steel barrier, and didn't really want to be even partly hanging into the live lane.

Rutland Rover... I'm not sure what let go in the dash. I'm guessing the end tank on the heater core has split or a hose came off. Obviously just the weakest point of the system. A load of coolant also got dumped out of the header tank overflow, so that did its job.. there was a nice trail where I had pulled over and puddle underneath.

I haven't had time to look at anything. After I disconnected the battery and secured the vehicle at home, I got my foot in some cold water for a bit and went to bed. It was gone 03:30 by then and I was up at 08:30 to sort out my travel today as I had to be there for mid day, to be ready for a matinee show. I'm here until tomorrow evening, and then I'll see how I feel on Friday, but I might take the knee panel off and see what's happened in the dash. If I can't be bothered, then it can wait until the weekend.

I'm with RAC as it's about the only useful thing I can put my Tesco points towards... Even then it's still about £65/year to make up the difference.

I'll be considering other options... But ultimately RAC contracted the recovery out and it was down to when he was available after his previous drop off. You'd think middle of the night would be quieter and quicker for a response but I also guess they have less operators working then.

Pictures to follow, but had my first experience in nearly 14 years of P38 ownership of turning up back at home on the back of a recovery truck last night...

Driving home from work last night and get a "whump" sound and then alternator light come on... Immediately know the drive belt has failed ( it had been looking a bit worn and actually had a new one turn up with some other bits yesterday whilst I was out!), But the cause appears to be something else.

No hard shoulder where I am, and doing 70mph, with now no power steering in the middle of the night.

As I'm looking for a place to pull over safely "pop" in the dash as something catastrophically fails, and suddenly I've got hit coolant pissing all over my foot, and steam everywhere obstructing my view.btemp gauge in the red, you name it... A few choice curse words going on...

Managed to pull off safely into a side road after exiting dual carriageway and called the RAC at 11pm... " We'll be with you soon, but it could be up to 90 minutes". Called back after 85 minutes. "recovery is on the way but he won't be there until between 2am and 3am"

Finally recovered at 2:30am, home just after 3am... Now waiting on a train the Cheltenham as I've got 2 shows to do today, one tomorrow, and then load the show out and train home. Friday will start looking into the damage and see what I'm up against.

It was supposed to be an easy week commuting from home for a change!

First sign is the power steering pump (which was new a few years ago) is shot - the pulley is flapping about, so guessing the bearing in there decided it was unhappy, and shredded the belt, but will update as I find out what's happened.

Needless to say with the overheat, I'm looking at a top end rebuild at least.

Hi Mazz,

Glad you found the forum! And again thanks to Dave for lending an ear and some of his expertise - I know you've done a load of bits on your DSE, so figured you'd be a bit more use than me!

If the garage aren't getting anywhere, and they keep mucking about over the next couple of weeks, then I am due to be working down in Bournemouth at the end of the month, and can look at taking a trip over to them in Portsmouth on one of the days I'm down that way. I think I have a couple of days where I am doing shows in the evening, but will have some time during the day. My Nanocom is also unlocked for DSE vehicles, so I can connect up to the engine ECU and look at the readings.

Thanks Hoppy for posting up the info about the timing an modulation - I haven't adjusted a FIP before, or done nearly anything with the Diesel vehicles, but with that info and my Nanocom, I am sure I can work it out...

Keep us informed if the garage have made progress - but if they haven't, then I'm happy to try and get over there to look at it myself, but it won't be until the end of the month unfortunately.

Marty

Morat wrote:

It's longer than mine but there's honestly a lot of stuff there that you could knock off in pretty short order.

If you want to compare....

1. Viscous Coupling (arrived yesterday)
2. Nasty scratch/dent above rear left wheel arch. This needs proper surgery and probably a replacement door. Super annoying as she had great bodywork when I bought her.
3. CD player just shows "Error"
4. Sat Nav doesn't get a signal
5. I think the mid speaker in the driver's door card is dead

She's drivable but I don't want to put any more miles on her until the viscous is replaced or it'll just wear out the front tyres even more and damage the UJs and diff at the front. I'm tempted to DIY but not that tempted. I'll need a prop tool and probably a gear puller.

3/4 probably mean "Android head unit" but that'll have to wait.
5 Yeah I should do that. One day.

I'd probably get a few more propshaft nuts... at least a couple of the new ones i put on at the back were already starting to round... even with the propshaft nut tool! The access to the nuts at the back is a PITA because of the angle it comes off at. You'll probably get another use out of them anyway, and they aren't done up stupid tight - but up to you... They're 3/8 UNF and an be had on the likes of eBay in packs of 10, probably cheaper than what a LR place would sell them to you!

I think the issue is actually on the front panel board, as that is where the dimming is done - there's a transistor and zener diode from memory just to the RHS of the display (as you look at it from the back - so the -ve side of the screen as you have marked)

I need to have a look at one of the face panel PCB's I have here to be 100% sure though - I'll try and confirm at some point... but if my theory is correct, then the issue is most likely on the face panel you have - so you could swap that with one from one of the AWR5051 units you've got, and just do the screen connector on that.

I'm still pretty certain the fault will be one of the through board connections on the face panel board. I've seen it a couple of times before - once it was the dimming wire, and once it was possibly the switched +ve feed. I'll try and update once I've had a chance to probe one of the boards here - but I'd say that it's entirely possible that the one you have there is repairable too, but swapping it for another one is probably just as much work...

Yes, it appears that it is just the firmware which is different across the model years.

Glad you got home alright Morat!

Let me know how you get on with the rear prop shaft and the VC - sorry there didn't seem to be one there which is OK... probably explains why people were happy to send me 3 TC's at a time as part of a job lot... because they were pretty much junk otherwise!!

I was going to message you to make sure you had got back OK - but promptly been busy working on a RF filter backlog for a few people who had emailed the website about them, and finishing a HEVAC for another owner - so it's been somewhat of a busy week... I haven't even unpacked the tools from the car yet!

Thanks for lending a hand (and a foot... or 2 by the end of the bleed procedure) with my brakes - it's a big check mark off my list of things for the MOT this year!

Happy rovering over the summer!

Ah, maybe it's the 12V which is PWM controlled via the components to the other side of the HEVAC bulb.

As an aside.... the face panels are compatible between the different HEVAC models.. AFAIK the software bit that is different is on the main control board - the face panel will work with any of them. So if you have a working front panel from another model, then you could just swap that over and have the later control board with a different working front panel.

Hope this helps someone in the future...

OK, the HEVAC display bulb is driven differently - it is actually -ve switched via a pwm signal from the instrument cluster.

From memory it comes in on an Orange wire, and if that wire is connected to ground, the display should light at full brightness. Normally it will dim when you adjust the cluster lighting level with the dimmer switch on the indicator stalk, hence being controlled differently to the rest of the panel lights, which are switched by +12V on the Red/White wire (along with the other switches etc).

In theory (and again from memory)... with the HEVAC screen bulb disconnected, you would see 12V at the side closest to the center of the HEVAC permanently, and the -ve side of the bulb is controlled via a couple of components a transistor and diode? maybe?

If you are getting 12V to the lamp, but nothing on the other side with the orange wire grounded, then there are a few places that I have seen issues.. once or twice I've seen a fault in the components that drive the -ve side of the lamp, but most of the time it's a bad through-board connection over near where the ribbon cable comes onto the front panel. I've managed to repair pretty much all of the iffy front panels I've had on my bench though, so it shouldn't be a write-off for the whole unit just yet :)

Hope this helps,
Marty

Fingers crossed it was just the UJ giving up the ghost with the loading on it from cornering, that the VC would usually take up...

I'll have a look under in the morning before we go anywhere and see... if it's just the prop then I'll whip it off and you can run in 2wd mode up to the workshop :)

Likewise... Tempting... But haven't the space or time :(

I'd probably keep moving the gearshift and wondering why it doesn't go anywhere though... Too used to the auto now lol

If your blower(s) are running on full speed all the time, without being controlled by the HEVAC, then chances are the speed controller transistors in the blower motor itself have failed and they're driving the blower at full pelt.

That would be my first guess anyway.

I've been with Admiral since I bought the RR. I declared it as having LPG but never been asked about it being on a register etc.

That was 7 1/2 years ago though!

In short, yes the Nanocom will be able to resync a different engine ECU to the BECM.

However, as Sloth says you would also need to change the BECM setting from Auto to Manual, and a load of looms etc would need to be swapped too, to allow for the manual box and clutch pedal etc.

But as far as the diagnostic side of things - yes, a Nanocom will do all that.

I bought one of the generic O-ring kits from eBay a few year ago as the Thor part numbers are a mess and I couldn't figure then out.

That and I resented the idea of paying £6 or £7 each for a couple of O-rings in the hope they were the right ones.

I found that the various size kit didn't have exact size replacements, but there were ones close enough ( I went a touch smaller, so the stretched over the RR fittings a bit more where I needed to). Since doing the condenser a couple of years ago (the last time the system was empty, vacuumed, refilled etc) it's been fine and leak free. Had the AC on the other day and it was still getting nice and cold, so I obviously haven't lost too much gas!

I'm sure that when I took mine to be regassed (ok a couple of years ago now, so my memory might be a bit hazy) the guy who did mine filled it without the engine/compressor running.

He used to work for BMW but did bits on his own now, and had all the kit to refill AC properly.

He nitrogen checked for leaks, and then vacuumed the system down, followed by a fill of the correct weight of r134a and oil, and then I started it up and he checked the operation. Compressor kicked in straight away and nice cold air.

I might be wrong on the running engine whilst filling, but I don't recall there being any issues or "ooohh this bit isn't triggering so we can't do it".

I am amazed at what shit some places come out with... I remember taking mine into a specialist place for adaptive values to be reset on the engine ECU to be called 4 hours later to be told that they didn't know what they wanted me to do... Their diagnostics was out for repair and they weren't allowed to touch my engine because it had LPG on it.

Get that certification, Sloth, and the we can do an AC camp! ;)