They can go for a bath tomorrow then!

I don't know how much of the list I will get done before I go away, but I will hopefully get the heads and rocker gear on before I go, so I will put the rockers in a nice 10W40 marinade. How long should they soak for before putting them in the block?

I didn't get much done today, as I'm waiting on parts arriving still - so hopefully from tomorrow I can start getting things done again.

I did get the first coat of paint onto the rocker covers this evening, and had a delivery of the inlet manifold outlet pipe that goes to the top hose/radiator. The price from Island 4x4 and LR Direct is £50 plus - and I managed to win this one in an auction on eBay for £0.99 plus £6 shipping... not bad for brand new in the bag..

I've also ordered the LPG nozzles, and some more stainless steel bolts to reassemble the inlet manifold. So hopefully the ceramic grease turns up, so I can dot some of that on the threads. I'm happy with how it came out though.

Also the lower inlet manifold - I cut the rusty steel barb off and punched out the bit still in the manifold, before drilling it out a bit wider and then tapping it to 1/8 NPT thread, as I managed to find a 45degree elbow with 1/8 NPT thread on one end, and then a 8mm hose connection on the other - so that will hopefully make a nice replacement over the rusty barb that was there. I have some liquid thread sealant which should keep the coolant in nicely. Once the LPG nozzles are here, they will get drilled and fitted. then another clean to get rid of the swarf and then masked/painted. I've marked out nozzle locations which are closer to the petrol injector nozzles, but holding off drilling them until they are actually here.

A few more (probably boring by now!) pictures...

I had laid all the bits out ready to reassemble, and then decided to go with stainless bolts, and originally thought I'd fit it all and then just swap the bolts over, but would need to remove the throttle body to access one of them, so the decided I'd just be patient and wait!

My £7 buy... not bad since they are over £50 inc VAT from parts websites...

First coat of paint - will probably do 3 coats on these.

Oh, also took the masking off the front cover. Tomorrow will look at giving the inside a final wipe down, and then reinstalling the pump gears, relief valves and the new oil pressure switch.

If you are going to swap the hub, then you can fairly well change it yourself - a replacement hub is somewhere in the £200-300 range (haven't looked in awhile!).. or a bearing is about £80 - but as mentioned, you need a fairly decent press to get it out, getting it back in probably needs less force as it won't be rusted solid!

I think the hardest part of swapping the hub would be undoing the stake nut on the end of the driveshaft.

So, Update time...

Rocker shafts are still in the freezer, and I haven't yet had the chance to heat the pedestals. I'm wondering about giving the inside of the pedestals a light rub down with high grit paper to make sure they don't have anything which is catching, and then also giving the shafts a chamfer on the end with a grinding wheel. Or I could just be patient and wait for the new shafts to arrive which will hopefully just fit...

So, instead, today I've been cleaning rocker covers again - and now have them at a stage where I'm happy to call them clean enough. They will now get masked and painted. I've tried getting the oil filler tube out of the RH one, but it's stuck in there solid.. even an oil filter strap wrench wasn't moving it.. but hey, I'll just mask around it and be done with it.

So with that done, I turned my attention to the big shiny thing sitting in the garage, and decided it was time to make a start. The logical place was to get the cam installed, so got it out of it's protective bag where it's been the last 4 years!

And give it a rub down with some carb cleaner, and paper towel to remove the protective rust inibitor coating that was on there. Next I loosely (finger tight only) bolted the cam timing gear onto the front as per Ferryman's suggestion (thanks for that!) to aid with controlling the cam when fitting it to the block.

Next, it was put on the bench and cam lube smeared all over it - mounting surfaces and cam lobes

There is a load more lube left, so this will get dripped onto the lobes through the holes in the casting on the block, and also smeared on the tappets when they get installed to make sure it's nice and ready for when it gets installed and run in.

I didn't get any pictures of it actually going in as I had my hands full, but it went in nicely, and turns smoothly and freely.

I then took the gear off and fitted the new thrust plate, and bolts, and torqued them up to the required 25Nm. Then got the new timing chain and crank gear out and fitted them, along with the cam gear again and got the timing lined up

Then decided to get the ARP studs out and put them in the block. This was when I remembered/found again that there was no ARP lube included. The instructions only mention about lubing them when putting the washers and nuts on, so figured I would fit them to the block, at least to satisfy myself that they will all go in OK and without trouble.

I did them up finger tight as the instructions said, but found that a couple of them were about half a turn out from being all the way in - so gently tightened them with an allen key in the top of the stud, and they all then seated fully. As the instructions said hand tight only, I then backed the studs back out a few turns with the allen key, and then re-did them back up again hand tight. This time they all went all they way in. I then checked with a steel ruler the height of the studs sticking out, again to satisfy the perfectionist in me that they all actually were all the way in. There were a couple that were about 1mm lower (58mm out of the block rather than 59mm - and no not any of the ones that needed the earlier 'tweak' to get all the way in either!) but I figured that isn't going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things, as I'd rather know they are screwed all the way in, than leave it out 1/4 turn to make it the same height - I tested the theory on one of them, and it just still felt loose - so did it back up hand tight again and left it!

And that is about progress for today...

The front cover had a second coat of paint on the front this morning, and the coverage it looking pretty good. I'm trying to decide if I put a 3rd coat on, or just leave it. I'm leaning towards just leaving it at the moment - it's hardly seen and 2 coats is going to give it a bit more protection against inevitable oil leaks/stains, and workshop track mud!

I'm about to go and unmask the rest of the plenum parts, and tomorrow I'll bolt them all back together with the new gaskets, and that can then get bubble-wrapped and set aside ready for later in the build. I will need to tidy the bolts up as the heads were a bit rusted, but maybe a quick spray once they are done up will tidy them up...

New oil pump gears are ready to fit, likewise the oil pressure relief valves have new O-rings ready to go on, and then they can be reinstalled and new front seal fitted. That would then see the front cover pretty much finished and ready to go on the engine.

The heads are ready to fit aswell, I just need to wait for the ARP lube to show up and then I'll get the head gaskets out, and start doing the scary torquing sequence...

So, the kind of order of things I see happening now...
Reassembling upper manifold parts/throttle body
Masking and painting rocker covers
Final cleaning/masking/painting sump
Fitting oil pump gears (and pack with vaseline) to front cover
Refit oil pressure bypass/relief valves with new O-rings. Fit new oil pressure switch, and front seal
Fit front cover to engine
Fit head gaskets/heads to engine once ARP lube arrives.
Reassemble rocker shafts once new shafts arrive/make current new ones work if the Bearmach ones aren't any better...
Add more lube to the cam/lobes/tappets and fit the tappets
Fit rocker gear when assembled, and shim appropriately for correct preload
Drill/Tap lower inlet manifold once LPG nozzles arrive (have been ordered now!)
Mask/Paint lower inlet manifold once nozzles are fitted
Clean petrol injectors, and fit new O-rings
Fit valley gasket, end seals, clamps
Fit lower manifold/fuel rail, and make mountings for the LPG injectors. Also scavenge the injectors from the RR and blank off the inlet hosework to allow it to still run on petrol, but give me the injectors to mount on the new engine.
Fit oil strainer, sump etc
Buy and fit new water pump
Maybe purchase ancilliary mounting brackets so these can be cleaned and installed on the new engine - again another thing that should make the swap quicker..

I'm sure there is more to add to the list, but I'm also hoping I can start ticking a few things off soon!!

The 'to buy' list is currently:
New water pump,
Spark plugs,
Cooling hoses
Ancillary mounting brackets
Possibly new starter motor
Possibly alternator - either refurbished, or one to refurbish myself
Crank pulley bolt/washer
Everything else I've forgotten...

Marty

Gilbertd wrote:

I got my studs from V8 Dev..... £120 plus the dreaded if I remember right (I know they came to around £140 all in). They recommended 70ft/lbs, done in 3 stages, too. For running in oil they suggested using the cheapest mineral 20W-50 I could find for the first 1,000 miles to let everything bed in nicely. After that, 10 or 15W, 50 or 60 fully synthetic and change it every 10,000. I've been running this stuff http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/engineoils/10w60-engine-oil/?521770981&0&cc5_253 in it for 36,000 miles now (yes, I really have done 36,000 miles in under 2 years) and it may be expensive (so I buy it when they have one of their 30% off deals on) and my motor seems to like it.

Bugger... makes my brand new 20 or 25L drum (can't remember what it was that I got) of 10W/40 at the workshop useless now... I had originally bought it for doing an oil change on the old girl, but since the block's been leaking - figured it can just deal with the oil that's in there, especially given the mileage it gets.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-Autobiography-4-6-V8/142172884430?

Not 100% sure on the colour, but it isn't gaudy like the purple Autobiography which is out there somewhere... It is GEMS though... but currently at £2.20...

You want to know what the scary bit is of the Holland & Holland... I clicked on 'View car' and it takes you to the dealers website, where is shows that not only was the price on the dealer site £6K less at £22500, but also that it was actually sold...

I think the 0.5 Oz should be fine... I've bought it now, so will see how I go... it's probably all that would have come in the box anyway if it was included..

I went for the same set of studs that Ferryman went for from V8 Tuner... £122 odd for the set. It's also the actual 20 bolt later set, for reasonable money compared to what eBay sellers or RPI want for them. I'm almost tempted to see what they go for in the USA and if they are cheaper, then pick up a couple of packs of them whilst I'm out there for future rebuilds...

The only advantage to the bigger set I guess is you can use the extras as exhaust studs on the downpipes..

I've had a look on eBay, and I can get a .5 Oz sachet of the lube for about £4.50 - so will order than now along with the ceramic grease for the other threads.. I don't have ATF at home at the moment, it's all at the workshop. So it will be easier in the long run to just get the ARP stuff and be done with it.

V8 Tuner who I bought the ARP studs from say that 70lb/ft is what they recommend for composite gaskets as final torque on the studs. They say to do up in 3 stages, leaving it to settle for 20/30 mins in between the stages. The ARP instructions I have with the kit say 80lb/ft.

Ahh, the joys of doing something like this yourself...every turn there is more to spend and it's all the little things that keep adding up... like the thought that I will need a crankshaft bolt/spacer, and for some stupid reason, the bolt is £15 on it's own. I could just re-use the one off my current engine, but it would be useful to have as the engine gets more assembled to then be able to turn it over by hand.

I was also thinking today that I've bought new engine mounts, so will need new nuts for them (RAVE says to replace them anyway - but if they are like any of the other nuts underneath they will come off in a state you wouldn't want to reuse them!), and also I'll probably need to use some special running in oil for the first 500 miles or so, and there was a couple of other things too... oh, yeah, starter motor is probably worth replacing as I doubt it's ever been done, and it's getting dripped on with coolant at the moment from one of the leaks the current engine has... likewise alternator bearing on the current one whines, so swapping that would probably be a good preventative thing too..

Think I'll almost need to make another list of all the extra things I'm going to need... at least one of the rocker covers is now clean, and the other is still soaking in some neat degreaser as the overnight soak in a solution of it with water only loosened the top layer of crud! Might try and get that cleaned today, and then at least I can say that all the current parts are all clean, at least...

There will be pictures later of today's progress..

Right, a bit of an update...

Rocker shafts in the freezer all morning, tried putting a pedestal on (haven't put them in the oven yet as been doing other things this morning) and still no go - binding on the end of the shaft.. so will try heating the rocker pedestals a bit later and see if that's enough to get them on, but I somehow doubt it.

ARP head studs didn't come with their 'if you don't use our specialist stuff then you will trash your engine' lube in the box... Looking at it again, it's an additional purchase... FFS... if it's that bloody critical, then why don't you include it... like Piper do with the cam lube... So, with that now being discovered... should I now source special ARP lube, or will something else do? I gather they say not to use motor oil as it's quite thick, but would a lighter weight oil suffice - like penetrating oil, or WD-40? As it's a LOT thinner then motor oil, but still rather slippery...

I've been doing a few bits in the garage today, and now about to ship a couple of BECM's back and things like that, so will update with pictures later in the day once I've got them off my phone and onto the laptop!

OK, will look at ceramic anti seize. I wondered about copper, and the fact it's another metal.. good to have confirmation on that though.

SS bolts in the kit are for sump, front cover, water pump, lower inlet manifold and exhaust manifold and rocker covers. All the more 'internal' engine bolts, eg cam thrust plate, oil pickup strainer and the likes I've ordered as LR parts and will be normal steel. I'll chuck the shafts in the freezer now whilst I go scrub the rocker covers in their degreaser bath. I should have though of that and put them in overnight.

What temperature is good to bake your rocker pedestals at? I didn't see cooking instructions on them ;-)

I'm going to get the micrometer out soon and compare the old ones with the new. If they measure up ok, then I might try chamfering the ends of the new shafts to see if it is a case of its just catching. It shouldn't affect the shaft at all as it's right at the end past the split pin, so not going to affect oil ways or anything like that.

Ceramic anti seize... might have to get that, as the bolt kit I bought for the engine is all A2 stainless. I'm guessing there's a difference between using ceramic anti seize and standard copper grease?

Thinking I'll try to mount the cam tomorrow... I have the piper cam lube, and engine assembly lube, so think I'm good to go with that. New thrust plate and bolts ready for it too..

The rocker covers are soaking in a bath of degreaser overnight, and they will get a scrub in the morning, and wire brush over on the stubborn bits, before they can also be masked for painting.

Sump will then get a final scrub down, and masked for painting too.

Upper inlet manifold is being called done with painting now, so tomorrow's task will be mating it back with the throttle body and bolting it all up. Though, I am toying with the idea of getting some stainless steel flange head bolts to put it back together with - it's either that, or painting the heads of the original ones black to match as they're a bit rusty at the moment.

The real thing that's pissed me off tonight, is I was all ready to sit down and build the rocker shafts... to find the pedestals don't fit on the sodding rocker shafts do they...

Rockers fit on the old and new shafts, pedestals fit on the old shafts (which are scored, so don't want to reuse them) but pedestals won't fit on the new shafts. They are blue bag specials, and about 4 years old... but even so... it's a sodding steel rod with some holes in it... get it right... so another £36 lighter, I've ordered a pair of Bearmach ones from LR Direct... I think I will hit the roof if they don't fit..

no10chris wrote:

Cheers marty, it refuses to unlock with the key which is what I thought was strange. Will see if my stepfathers diagnostic will allow me to enter the eka, will check the sticker when I'm there, if not is it becm to you ?

If it refuses, then if the BECM comes to me then I can unlock it, and get it ready to refit, yes. It should then return to being unlocked and just unlock everything when it comes back... however, I'm a bit pressed for time as I'm due to go away for 6 weeks from around the 16th - and might have some other work on this week.. I could just fit it in to unlock and send back, but would have to be fairly quick in getting sent to me unfortunately.

Well, I haven't got at much done as I had hoped as the last few days I've been elbows deep in other people's RR's swapping heater boxes, O-rings or heater cores... also been sealing plenums and swapping cooling system hoses - so haven't really had a lot of time to get anything else done of my own!

That being said, most mornings I've been trying to do a coat of paint on parts, so that way they can then sit inside in the warmth all day and dry. So far the throttle body has had 3 coats of paint, and is now all back together again. Picture of that to follow... Pricing up the rocker gear (springs, pedestals, washers etc) was silly expensive - so for £20 from eBay I bought 2 sets of rocker gear, which have now been stripped and the old shafts, pins, and rockers have been discarded. The pedestals, springs, and washers have all been cleaned, and have one more dunking in parts cleaner to go before they will be in a position to rebuild on the new rocker shafts, and with the new steel rockers. With any luck that will be this evening's task in front of the TV!

Lower inlet manifold hasn't had anything more done to it yet. I need to order LPG nozzles, and then drill/tap manifold (have you got a picture of your one Richard so I can take a look?). I also need to decide if I cut that nozzle off and then drill/tap a hole and fit a brass one... I'm leaning towards doing it as the steel one isn't going to get less rusty! After that's all done then it will get masked and painted too.

Nick was up yesterday for us to do his heater box/core/replumbing the whole cooling system.. but he kindly gave me a hand to unwrap the new engine, mount it on the engine stand adapter and lift it into place...

I know, pics or it didn't happen, so here's some eye candy...

The front cover got masked up the other night in front of the TV, ready for painting:

And then sprayed on the front yesterday morning, and the back side this morning. Other parts of inlet have had 2 coats on the bottom, and a third on the top this morning:

This afternoon's task list is to do a final wash on the rocker parts, and let them dry, Also to finish cleaning the first rocker cover and get stuck into cleaning the second one aswell.

I might look at installing the cam in the engine - but I also have to finish reassembling and bench testing a BECM that I've cloned this morning from a drowned one that was sent to me... so will see how I get on!

Oh, and yes the pistons on the new engine are all pocketed... It was something listed on the V8 dev website, but I wasn't expecting it to come with them, as I figured it was a copy/paste from the 4.6 performance engine, rather than the standard one that I ordered. Would allow me to run a more aggressive cam, but think the Torquemax will be fine for what I use the RR for...

If the software on the BECM (shown on the sticker on top of the fuse box) is 36 or above then it should accept the EKA via the diagnostics port.

You should always be able to open the drivers door with the key if it's superlocked, as it's mechanical linkage in the latch which moves with the key. Some of them can be pretty stiff though,

I'd be trying to do EKA from the OBD port first as that would be the nice and easy solution

Gilbertd wrote:

My engine came from V8 Dev with no heads on it but the crank, oil pump and cam installed. The cam had plenty of lube on it that they'd put on. I filled it with oil by pouring it over the cam before the valley gasket went on. Once the heads were on, but no sparkplugs in, I just spun it over on the starter while watching the oil pressure light. It went out within a couple of full turns.....

Good to know - I don't have the front cover/oil pump on at the moment, as I'm supplying/fitting those. I have new oil pump gears to fit and will pack them with lube/vaseline before fitting the front cover. I'll make sure that the plugs are out and fuel pump relay are removed before spinning it over on the starter to prime the oil system. Given the inlet manifold situation on the Thor, covering the rocker covers, is it worth me doing that, before even putting the rocker covers, upper inlet manifold on? or just fit the rocker covers, inlet manifold, and spin it over to get oil up there and keep an eye on the oil pressure light?

If it were GEMS, then it would be easy enough to leave the RH rocker cover off to get a visual indication, but a bit more difficult with a bunch of bananas in the way!

no10chris wrote:

Yes, I did mean the cam, once started you need to run at around 1500-2000 for 20 mins to bed it in and harden the journals.
Did you get new pistons or use existing?

As I mentioned - it's a full rebuilt short engine from V8 Developments - so it's come to me including top hat linered block, crank, rods, pistons etc. I don't know what they do to rebuild them, but I would expect that they are new pistons, rings etc. or at least fully cleaned and check pistons if they are re-used.

I got Piper cam lube with the cam, but have bought a bottle of Torco MPZ Engine Assembly lube - so will make sure there is an extra dose on the cam lobes, before it get started. Piper cam sheet says I think 2500 rpm for 20mins as break in, but will revise the instructions when I go to fire it up for the first time.

Do you have to spin it over without the plugs, or is it just easier to pull the fuse/plugs on ignition coils and spin it on the starter so it can't spark and fire up?

I'll check, but I would expect that the bottom end should all be lubed and ready from when it was built at v8 Dev?

If you mean the cam shaft, then it came with can lube and it will be getting a healthy dose of it for sure. I've bought some extra engine assembly lube aswell, so I will be able to go over everything before sealing it up!

It is pretty rusty, yes - in the picture, that's after I've cleaned it up a bit with a wire wheel... If I were to swap it, then I would probably first try to pull it out, which is probably nearly impossible.... and if that didn't work, then I was thinking I'd just cut it off and then tap the hole that's there, and then thread in a brass replacement of the correct diameter (I think it's supposed to be 8mm). Vac... The port on the end if pretty tiny - so I need to see if it's big enough for the hose to go on it to the sensor. The vap run on my current manifold is 6mm I think, and the sensor might be 4mm (it's definitely smaller) so think I'll have to drill at least one port anyway - but it's not a big deal.

I'm a bit peeved at the workshop that did my heads, as they took the liberty of charging a pretty penny when I said for them to do what was needed to get them in usable condition again. But hey, for that kind of money you expect them to be sparkling and clean throughout.... well, no... I went to change the valve stem seals and the valve springs today, now I've got the valve spring compressor. Found a load of muck in and around the top of the valves/stem seals, and also around the bottom where the valves had been lapped in.. Not the most impressed... next time, I'll definitely be doing the valve lapping, and cleaning myself... I only told them to do it this time as I was going away for work for 3 weeks just before I dropped them off, so wouldn't have had time... and they were a bit heavy to sneak into my luggage to take with me!

Today the short engine turned up, so checked it over, but it's not unpacked yet, as I want to finish off a few bits of painting of other parts before I do, in case there's any spray or stuff about - don't want that in a nice, new engine!

I got the first coat on the undersides of the upper manifold parts today, so hopefully tomorrow, I can get the second coat on the top the parts and it can be drying whilst I go and swap a heater box for another owner.

Throttle body has had 3 coats, and is now un-masked, ready for me to put the springs and bits back on, which I might try and do tomorrow evening when I get home.

Front cover needs masking up, ready to paint, and then the rocker pedestals, springs, washers etc need a clean - as with the other rocker cover, and the first one needs finishing on the cleaning, before it is also masked for painting. I've also got another sump - which came to me nice and clean, so this can be masked aswell when I get a chance!

Going to try and fit the camshaft to the block tomorrow, and then get it mounted on the engine stand I think. I've heard it can be easier to mount the camshaft with the block sitting on it's end, so might do that whilst it's on the pallet, before attaching the engine stand mount and lifting it up.