Leolito, I agree with you about the seat electrics - I rechecked the new one that I bought and the motors are wired differently. There are only two or three going into the new ones as opposed to two seperate cables and plugs going into the motors on my existing seats. I expect that these are to do with the memory options that are on my seats.

I know that the long, large fir tree fasteners are available but the small ones - nadda. However, I have bought these fasteners so hopefully they will work:

They may need to be painted a bit darker but I will wait to see what they look like when I compare them to the original colour ones.

Pierre3.

I decided that I would replace the foam rubber base in the drivers front seat, as the side squab thingy had got a bit worn down and didn't look quite right. I was very lucky to find a complete seat base, new old stock, for sale so I bought it fairly cheaply. It was out of a Vogue Anniversary or something like that, I think. Anyway, it had green leather whereas mine is Light Stone [or Lightstone], but as I was keeping my original leather I wasn't bothered about the new seat cover. My leather is in good nick so I didn't want to make it obvious that I had replaced the foam base.

It turned out to be an interesting job, and not very difficult. There are a few things that needed a bit of thought about. For instance, reading RAVE says go under the seat and unplug the electrical connectors. As I found out there is quite a difference between different seat bases. On the Vogue seat base, when I ordered it, I could see that it had the same set-up of motors as mine, with a mounting plate with the cable connectors clipped to it, but when I looked under my existing seat it turned out that mine has an outstation bolted to the base.

So the new seat base has only cable connectors and two yellow relays for the motors but mine has a full outstation box with many more connections, including the seat back controls. Therefore, I couldn't just remove my leather seat cover and put it onto the new seat base, I had to remove both foam rubber seat bases and then remove the leather from both and swap them around. The most difficult bit is getting all the hog rings out, but when I read up about replacing them a lot of people on different sites have used tie-wraps in place of metal hog rings. As I don't have either hog rings or hog ring pliers, which would have meant waiting for them to be delivered if I ordered them off the internet, I decided to use tie-wraps.

Being in the electrical trade for many years I have a large collection of various sized tie-wraps so I used fairly wide, heavy duty ones and I reckon that they are stronger than the original hog rings but are just as unobtrusive. When you now look at the seat you wouldn't know the difference and the seat is now much firmer than it was.

Another thing I learned was that, as there are a couple of electrical plugs that need to be connected that go into the vehicle wiring system, when you put the seat back in position there is no way you can get you hand in under the seat. For some reason LR decided to mount the outstation under the seat and face the plug connections facing backwards and with the plug clips, which you need to press down to release the plugs, facing upwards right under the seat. So to unplug them you need to unscrew the outstation so that you can turn it upside-down to unplug, but when you refit the seat you put it roughly in position and then put two wooden blocks, or any other support, and lift the back of the seat right up. Then you can get your hand under the seat to reconnect the plugs that are coming from the wiring loom in the car.

As there are three axles running across the seat base, from side to side, there is no room to work under the seat. On the Vogue seat base it is completely different as there is no outstation and therefore quite a bit of room to get your hand underneath.

The only other pain in the ass are the fir tree fasteners that hold the ABS plastic surrounds, valances, in position. I found that they are very difficult to remove and can't really be used again to refit the valances. As they are NLA [no longer available] one just has to look for alternatives. I used the plastic rivet things from a Landrover Defender roof lining which have a body that pushes into the hole and a cap that then pushes into the body, effectively causing the end of the body to spread and grip. But I do suspect that the fir tree fasteners are likely to be available somewhere for newer cars made by somebody else.

The end result is that you can't tell that the seat has been apart, everything works as it did before, but the base is now firmer with more shape than it was. There are a few posts elsewhere that suggest using the seat base from the passenger side seat but I did email a few breakers and the passenger seats that they all had were no better than my existing drivers seat so that wouldn't have been worth it. And, I believe that there are a couple of retrim companies willing to make on but for nowhere near what I bought my new, old stock seat base for. I paid £100 including delivery, whereas, if you could get one but they are NLA, a new one would cost around nearly £300 if I remember correctly. I'm not quite sure whether the motors are inter-changeable though as they appear to be wired a bit differently. I wonder whether this is to do with memory option that I have on my seats.

Pierre3.

Hi, yet another question !!

I need to do a job on the handbrake and therefore the propshaft guard and the rear propshaft connection to the rear diff has to come off. I have a UJ 9/16th extended socket [from a few years back for some reason], but I wonder if somebody can tell me the correct bolt length for the rear diff so that I can order new ones before I start. Also, if possible what length are the propshaft guard bolts ?

I looked through the RAVE manual but it doesn't give the sizes unfortunately. I just know that the head size of the guard bolts and the diff nuts all seem to be 3/8 BSF but maybe someone could confirm this, please ?

Pierre3.

Thanks Richard. Great advice, I will have a look inside the pollen filters tomorrow.

Pierre3.

Hi, thanks a lot for the very useful information.

So, a couple of things - I think that I might buy a new pressure cap as I don't know how old mine is. But it certainly explains the coolant on the ground behind the front wheel, so thanks to Richard for that information.

Aragorn - I have a new seat base that I am fitting to the drivers' front seat [well, it wouldn't be the drivers' rear seat, would it - dohhh], so I took out the seat today, and that gave me a better look at the carpet under the heater, and guess what - I can see coolant on the transmission tunnel carpet just above the footrest. So I am pretty sure that [a] the heater matrix is leaking, or the seals into it are, and [b] I need a new pressure cap.

I am 98% certain that the engine is sound, it's a diesel by the way, as there hasn't been any noticeable change in performance. Not a guarantee, I know, but there is no white smoke anywhere, the oil level hasn't changed, and the exhaust is nice and clean. I did fit a new water pump and thermostat last Autumn, and I fitted a new Direnza radiator about three months ago. My water temperature sits steadily at dead centre and never goes up above that. When I first got the vehicle 5 years ago the temperature never went above the blue section, which I thought was correct, even though there were mentions on the internet that this is a problem, and not a good thing. Then my water pump broke the end off !!

Leolito, I understand how your issue worked, but mine is definitely using or loosing the coolant. Definitely leaking into the cabin, so along with a weak pressure cap I can understand where all the coolant is going.

The biggest issue now is fixing the leaking matrix seals, if that is the problem. I could also do with sorting the blend motors which I think are a bit iffy, and [does this ever stop] I think that the passenger side heater fan may have stopped working. About 18 months ago it started making a noise as if a big leaf was stuck in the fan blades but it would stop if I switched the fans on and off a couple of times. But it would sometimes come back unexpectedly.

Pierre3.

Interesting information. Is there any reason why there would be coolant on the ground just behind the drivers' side front wheel ? If one didn't know otherwise one would think that coolant has dropped straight out of the bottom of the reservoir onto the ground, which of course it can't. I had a look into the body cavity beside the reservoir and it is all dry, from what I can see.

The coolant on the ground is kind of where the sunroof drain would possibly drain out, and there is nothing behind the front passenger side wheel. I can't see any reason for coolant to leak onto the ground right behind the wheel, so I don't know where it is coming from.

Pierre3.

Hi again !! I am a bit puzzled or, more correctly, a bit concerned about a loss of coolant from the P38. I have a feeling that I know what it is but I am hoping that someone, who has experienced it, might be able to sort of confirm my suspicion.

Now that the weather has got a bit cooler I have had the heaters on warm or hot, to give a bit of extra warmth in the vehicle. I have noticed that the coolant is now disappearing at about a quarter of a pint over a 50 mile shopping/going for coffee journey. This is in comparison to a journey to Scotland, two months ago, which was about 600 miles in total and didn't use any coolant.

So, basically, there didn't seem to be coolant loss when the heaters are not used, but now that they are used the coolant is disappearing.

The issue seems to only be on short, multiple journeys, and seemingly when the heaters are used. I strongly suspect that the carpet is a bit damp under the heater unit, inside the vehicle, and I am wondering if this could be caused by the famous rubber seals on the heater pipes from the engine into the cabin leaking ?

Pierre3.

Absolutely, but don't forget, Richard, that LR have to attach their special collectors edition label. You know the one, printed with gold leaf !!

Pierre3.

I would agree with you, that long travel of the brake pedal would generally indicate softness in the system, so either air or a change of brake fluid. My brake pedal is firm with a short travel, but when the engine is off and with the ignition only on, the pump runs every time the pedal is pressed, which, from what I have read, and from Richards' advice, is almost certainly a dying accumulator.

So hand in pocket time, but, at the same time, as Richard says earlier, there is little point in buying a replacement pump, however cheap it is, because I don't get the Three Amigo's so my pump is almost certainly working fine.

It is still a pain that a replacement accumulator is around £120, but if you buy the original one, Landrover made, from Rimmers it is around £400, I think. Mad money.

Pierre3.

I do think that I need to fit a new accumulator, based on Richards description. I certainly don't have any Amigo's let alone three of them, but as I posted to Richard earlier, when I checked my brake pedal operation the pump starts and runs for about three or four seconds every time that it is pressed. Based on what Richard says above my accumulator is probably looking to go into permanent retirement.

Pierre3.

Leolito - I had a look about and, oooops, the answer was in the forum all along !!! To wit - "You'll know if the pump's not working as you won't have any power brakes. Accumulator failure is normally signalled by the 3 amigos (ABS/ TC/ Brake lights) flashing at you when pushing the brake pedal".

Ah-ha, the ghostly appearance of the Three Amigos !

Pierre3.

Thanks, Richard. Good to know that.

Incidentally, what are the signs that the accumulator may be on the way out ?

Pierre3.

Well, this is a good point - I don't think that, legally, you are supposed to drive the vehicle without a current test. Certainly, car insurance here states that, but is it reasonable to expect you not to be able to use a car if you are waiting three months for a test and it's because of the system. But, I suspect that it would depend on circumstances and plods opinion.

If you have a serious accident and your test had expired I have a feeling that you would be in trouble despite having a test booked. I think that, legally, it's the same as the UK, you can only drive to a test centre. But if you get stopped here, say in a random check, and you have the booking on your phone you will almost certainly just be let go with a warning. But if you run somebody over then that could be a completely different kettle of fish.

I'm sorry about this but the schematic doesn't make it very clear. I did look at my own RAVE manual and I am still a bit puzzled by the description. I thought that the handbrake lever is above the gearbox so I can't quite figure out, from the manual, how to get at the underside of the body where the handbrake goes through. Again, sorry that the question is a bit thick but I could do with sorting the whole handbrake thing without taking it to my garage guy.

Pierre3.

Richard, the problem with testing in parts of Ireland are exactly as you say. it's a stupid, stupid network that only allows the franchised operator to decide how many centres to open, it would appear to regardless of how many people want a test.

The way it is supposed to work is that you get a test on the anniversary of the first registration of the vehicle. You don't need a test for the first four years, then it is every two years until the vehicle is 10 years old, and after that, annually.

The problem now is that there are far more people living around the local [to me] test centre than probably was envisaged but nothing has been done to increase capacity. That's one of the problems with handing the system to a foreign company, trying to make them invest to provide an efficient service. Obviously, the question then is - why not remove the franchise ? I believe the answer is because there are too many vested interests in Irish politics and industry. So it's a case of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" and being offered jobs at management/board level when the politicians have to leave office.

If, for example, my vehicle is due a test on the anniversary of its' first registration, let's say June 1st, then I need to be trying to book that test at the earliest allowed date of the beginning of February to get a test date near when the current test date expires. If I leave it until a month before expiry then I won't get a date until at least three months later. In theory you could keep doing this until eventually you completely miss a year, as your dates are continually running three or four months behind.

One of the issues, so I have been led to believe and I can't verify this, is that young fella's with their souped-up VW Golfs, Subaru's, etc. etc. book a test way in advance, to allow them to drive their cars, and then two weeks before the test is due they re-schedule a new test a further three months down the road, and so on until the police catch up with them. And the reason they are doing it is because their boy-racers won't pass the test due to too dark window tinting, too low suspension, too loud exhaustion, and failing emissions test due to being chipped. Certainly, I know for sure that anyone with a straight through exhaust system fitted will fail on noise issues.

If the above really is true, and I do believe it may be, then that alone would be taking up test slots that a genuine motorist would use. Also the possibility that these young fellows are doing this was shown when I decided, three weeks ago, just for the fun of it, to see if I could reschedule my test from February 23 2024 to a nearer date, and lo-and-behold I was given a date two weeks ahead although at 9:30 at night. Which I took.

You can request to be on a waiting list to be called to a cancellation but in practice I have not found that it works very well. You could get a phone call to say that a cancellation has come up in three hours time, and you then have to get your car ready for te test, i.e. check all fuels and liquids, check lights, check tyre pressures, and empty everything out of the car, including the boot. It's just more hassle than its worth, sometimes.

Anyway, thanks for the schematic on the handbrake lever tightening process.

I looked at the schematic, and this may sound a bit stupid, but is the adjust made to the handbrake cable on the brake drum ?

Pierre3.

Again, very many thanks to all you guys, for contributing. It is a great learning experience, and I am very appreciative of the wealth of information.

I would have to agree with Aragorn about excessive forces used by testers - when I went out to my vehicle, after the test last week, the handbrake was pulled up to the last when it was parked up. I pull the brake up to the second "click" which holds the vehicle perfectly well, but after the test I had to use both hands to release the handbrake. This is the kind of thing that really jerks me off, being particularly brutal for no good reason but to see if they can break something and then say "There - it failed because such and such broke".

Dave3d - Yes, I know exactly what you mean about trying to release the "Park" brake when it's on a hill. I do my best to remember to put the handbrake on first, in any automatic, before putting the vehicle in "P", simply because of the shock to the gearbox when you pull it out of "P" and you get a loud bang as it releases !!! To be honest, I never pull the gear selector into reverse or drive when going in the opposite direction, to stop the vehicle. I am so concerned about getting "Gearbox problem" on the dashboard that I really do treat it with kid gloves, probably more than necessary but I just think that if I give everything a really, really easy life then it will last longer. That doesn't always bear fruit !

I think that I might replace the brake shoes, as suggested. I have no idea when the brake drum was last opened so, as mentioned, there could easily be oil or grease in there. At least if I replace the shoes then the drum should be as good as it can be. One question I would ask though is, where and how do you tighten the handbrake cable under the handbrake lever ? I have looked about for information but everything seems to be about replacing the brake shoes and not tightening the cable. I am assuming that there is some adjustment under the centre console somewhere ?

Lastly, in reference to Nigels' post about getting tests in the UK and France, the problem in Ireland is that there are a limited number of test centres because it has all been franchised out to a Spanish outfit called Aplus. There are only three centres within 20 miles of where I live in Dublin and they are usually booked up for 3 or 4 months in advance. I once complained to a government transport minister but his dumbass reply was that he was satisfied that there are enough testing stations based on the number of cars in the country. What a load of bo***x when you have to wait 4 months to get a test !! And at €54 and €28 for a retest.

So, thanks for everyone's input, it is all really useful.

Pierre3.

This turned out to be quite an interesting discussion. I do agree with the mention that pulling the gearbox out of "P" when it is on a hill isn't the best sensation, and I think that from now on I will use the handbrake when parking up. I had never actually given any consideration to how the gearbox "P" works so I also haven't given any consideration about how the vehicle was being held. Silly really, but I suppose that it is a habit going back nearly thirty years !!!

Pierre3.

Hi Richard, thanks for your invaluable comments.

I haven't ordered the ABS pump yet, so I may as well hold off for the time being. Currently, everything connected to the ABS does operate as it should. I have no problem with the "3 Amigos" so I may just take the old motor back for a retest and see what happens then It is just so soul-destroying to have to go through all these arguments to get through the test, every year.

It's interesting to read your comment on the handbrake versus the park position in the gearbox. I am on my eighth automatic vehicle and I very rarely have ever used the handbrake. I use the handbrake occasionally if I am stuck in traffic and not going anywhere, or at traffic lights if they are slow, but apart from that I never use the handbrake, only the park position in the transmission. Generally, on an incline, I would keep my foot on the footbrake but sometimes I might use the handbrake, but I very, very rarely pull up the handbrake when I leave it parked. I have left it in Edinburgh, on one of the roads up to Prince's Street, for a couple of days just left in park. But, having said all that, I take your advice seriously and consider using the handbrake more often.

Pierre3.

Hi guys, very many thanks to everybody here, I would like to thank individually but that would just be silly 😁 !!

As Richard says - "Don't you just love stupid testers". Indeed we do, particularly as these people can cause our vehicles to be off the road totally unnecessarily. Like the guy here was insistent that the handbrake with reduced efficiency was a "Fail - Dangerous" fault despite the vehicle being automatic, thereby almost making a handbrake redundant. I agree that it has to work, but in this instance a bit of common sense should have been applied because a "Fail - Dangerous" fault means that it is actually an offense to then drive the car home from the test station. To my mind it should have just been a retest fault.

Aragorn, I have read through the NCT directive manual and unfortunately there is no particular guidance on how to deal with permanent four wheel drive vehicles. It does state that if the vehicle can't be tested in the normal way then it has to be tested by using a Tapley meter or similar but, because the vehicle is booked in at an office you can't discuss the test with any of the testers beforehand. So you have to hand in the keys and a bit later the one of many testers comes out and takes the vehicle to the garage. You, the driver, don't get to interact with any testers until they return the vehicle, at which stage they give you the pass or fail certificate.

I have the opportunity to pick up a complete ABS pump for £200, from a low mileage P38, so I might just take a gamble, buy it, and hope that it solves the ABS problem. A guy here in Ireland, who has a very good reputation with P38's [he's English anyway !!!], did suggest that, without looking at the vehicle that the pump could be on its way out.

I think that I might replace my ABS pump before I get too critical of the NCT testers. I would hate to lambast the fellow only to find that the ABS pump actually isn't performing correctly, and then look like a know-it-all knobhead. At least if I have changed the pump and it is performing in a proper manner then I would feel on firmer ground.

Pierre3.

Thanks for the very useful information, guys.

Something that occurs to me in relation to the system - I checked the operation of the ABS pump this morning, using the following proceedure:
[1] Switch on ignition, but don't start engine:
[2] Press brake pedal - I can hear the ABS pump start up - keep pedal held down - pump stops. Release brake pedal.
[3] Press brake pedal again, immediately - ABS pump starts again - keep pedal held down - pump stops. Release brake pedal.

This happens each time the brake pedal is pressed. The pump runs for a couple of seconds each time, before cutting out. I can hear the brakes on the back of the car coming on and off.

I am thinking that the ABS pump may be on its way out as I have read that the brake pedal should be able to be pressed down 3 or 4 times before the pump starts up. Does this sound correct ?

Pierre3.

Hi, I have looked through the archives to see what information is about, on how I can check my ABS brake system. Basically, the tester at my local NCT test centre , in Ireland, has failed my P38 initially on the ABS not working, and then secondly on the handbrake not having sufficient brake force.

So, the image is of the brake test arrangement as used by my local, and only test centre in Dublin [north], which they insist has been updated to be able to test permanent for-wheel drives.

On my last test, a couple of days ago my P38 failed the ABS test until, after 40 minutes of heated discussions, got the tester to drive the vehicle on the road outside, after which he came back, and with very bad grace, accepted that the ABS "seemed" to be working OK. But then, like a Monty Python sketch, he told me that the vehicle still failed the test because the handbrake had insufficient force - "so there" !

I can accept, to some degree, that the handbrake may not be as good as perhaps it could, maybe it needs tightening up at the adjuster screw on the drum, but the brake is able to hold the vehicle, on the second "click" of the brake lever, on a slight hill even when putting light pressure on the throttle to increase the engine revs. The vehicle doesn't move forward, but, again, I accept that this is not a 100% test of the efficiency of the handbrake. I will try to adjust it tighter this weekend.

So my two main questions are firstly, - how can I physically test the ABS system, and how would I know if the ABS pump is not putting as much pressure out as it should ? Is this possible, that the pump pressure is being reduced by age and use, or does the pump either work or not work, thereby needing replacement.

The second question is - what is the best way to test the handbrake, allowing for the fact that I am doing this outside my house and not in a garage ?

Hopefully, the forum may have some updated advice on this issue.

Oierre3.