Er.... sending the SWAT Squad in might just get you banned from the US instead then ?
And Toad/Carl clearly is the definitive '5 tons of Bull Plop' himself so may not need any more ! Before I was banned by this useless idiot I was told by another member (who had also been hassled by him unnecessarily too) that his 'main' problem was drink: If so that explains a lot...
Don't drink and drive (a keyboard) Carl ! (He will be reading all this for sure now...)
Great tip, Cheers OB !
More interesting comprehensive stuff Simon, cheers ! As you indicate -and the original concern - the main issue was that the OP may not be able to perform the Drive Cycle/s in his particular location and the ECU would (or could) then just 'Open Loop' on him and thus effectively ignore a new component... In practice we know it may depend on the specific component in question (eg. the GEMS ECU may be much happier to accept a new MAF than a new Lambda) and I suspect that is why LR suggest a 'general/universal procedure' when components are changed, depending on the particular engine (?):-
http://workshop-manuals.com/landrover/p38/17_emission_control/fault_diagnosis/page_363/
Not sure why they don't say 're-set the Adaptive Values etc with the T4/TestBook' though ! (Either it couldn't... or more probably LR stealers wanted £££/hrs Road Test fees ?....) Don't know if the OPs rig being NAS makes it different either.... ie. it may take longer to clear any Fault Codes just be revving it up whilst stationary for a while (?) All our pre-full OBD beasties seem (fairly) reluctant to flag Codes and then to erase them once cleared (eg. by faulty component replacement) if just left to their own devices though, that's a fact...
Again I do like your idea of simplifying (or simulating some/most of it) whilst stationary and will try it next time.
(Like many on here I have a way to reset Adaptive Values anyway but previously considered raising all 4 wheels.
-yes all 2 tons of it- up on blocks to hasten the adaptation process...)
That's a very interesting theory/approach LPGC/Simon ! When I have tried this (and monitored the Trims in real time) it certainly takes a long time for the Trims to settle down though - as these ECUs can be quite unco-operative ! Perhaps next time I will try it however....
Guessing you are familiar with this:
I agree that with some vehicles the ECU will learn to accept new Lambdas etc with just a fast tickover for about 20 minutes
No - a new MAF will not cause 'anything debilitating' but as others have indicated it takes a while for the ECU to get used to it and (eventually) effectively re-set the Adaptive Values to suit. In practice this means a range of different and representative 'Drive Cycles' (and at various speeds too - so that for instance being stationary in traffic will really slow down that process). MAFs are rather tetchy things (even on a GEMS rig like yours) and sealing with an o-ring will help indeed !
Lpgc wrote:
Dunno if you refer to my last post on this thread Dave, but I was talking about a different forum,
Yes, sorry LPGC - I was responding to GeorgeB's news (#17) that his info. had been removed from the other site - but then our posts crossed...
Totally agree with your sentiments though - once all the censoring starts all the good information and friendly atmosphere goes with it too !
And I am on also other forums too - and having a 'too cosy' relationship with certain vendors is definitely another 'kiss of death' for sure.....
Indeed lots of other 'enthusiasts' sites have been ruined by similar big-owner/big-vendor 'advertising' pressures.
What's that ?? Toad will edit and delete content he does not personally like - even the true ones -surely not ?? Too bad then that he manages to be a Total Fanny in both US and UK terms then...... and is possibly the most infantile mod. I have ever encountered...
Sadly RRNet stopped being a real enthusiast's site a while back - in fact effectively once they 'arranged' to take John Brabyn's Site and reject his philosophy and the three musketeers mentioned above decided to hijack it for their own particular (business) interests of course....
Well I expect Toad also told you he had 'received complaints' about your behaviour' (although he didn't of course) but only he is allowed to do 'jokes' (and he is thus the epitome of a hypocrite).... Don't think he would understand 'craic' if he fell in one either.....
You are both absolutely right that we P38 owners need a sense of humour: With some of these odd faults 'if you don't laugh you'll cry' !
I have definitely consdered this a number of times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc
Fair enough ! You may not like this much either but then that tends to leave the Height Sensors / Connectors...... which are the most 'resistance-sensitive' ones of course.... (and the movement of their cables could be causing the intermittent factor ?)
[On some of my other (non-P38) vehicles with 15+year old connectors I have removed quite a few recurrent gremlins by such 'hard wiring' of critical components where viable/possible, - particularly where those were exposed to heat/temperature/weather issues..]
Longer shots are the EAS ECU/Connectors or perhaps the height switch itself (?)
.
Sorry yes I realised that - I meant the Driver Pack connections inside the EAS box itself.....
The problem may not just be the pins - it can be weak/bad crimps too.... and the problem can be exacerbated by frequent manipulation of the M/F plugs
rayodunne wrote:
...... I always have this shady 70's gay porn scene pop into my head.....
Errr... thanks for that image (?); If/when I visit the other site in future it may help if I imagine it is just being run by the 'Village People' then ?...
Anyway, back on topic, I realised a while ago that the EAS Software gives us data that needs 'further interpretation', for example when the compressor seemed to want to operate (almost) forever it indicated the Pressure Switch as the culprit - but I eventually found it was actually the Driver Pack - and another time the connector plug for it had an intermittent connection...
In other words even though your Driver Pack is new it could still have a corroded pin etc on the loom end connector. These plugs should have a plug/unplug spec. of 000s of insertions but the nasty conditions in that box can make the pins deteriorate quite rapidly too (?) Whilst i was fiddling about - also with a seemingly 'haunted' system - I seriously considered removing the plugs altogether and just soldering the wires together instead..)
Hi Jerwin and welcome ! Have to comment on the 8MPG of yours (OK, sorry, 8.1MPG..) as it is equivalent to one pint a mile
This is indeed bad, even for a 4.6 (unless you really are stationary/stopped most of the time); Have you done any diagnostics ?
Apologies, Gordon; Probably my fault as I did not explain my ‘Doctor/Disease’ comment well - but it was just intended as a criticism of the other site. Time was this had a flourishing ‘Diagnostics’ section of course, with regular/excellent contributions from Storey Wilson and Colin from BBS etc. The latter also offered a discount to members (but Toad/Carl scuppered all that due to the ‘disease’ - self-interest.- once he ‘misappropriated’ some P38 test equipment). I was actually a little surprised that this has now apparently spread to Doctor/Scotty.
All we want to do is keep our rigs on the road of course…… and if I do manage to get some BeCM Information from LR this will go straight to the real gent here, Marty !
GeorgeB wrote:
davew wrote:
Hmmm... sounds less like a Doctor and more like a Disease then ?
Ah, but a much loved disease in some circles!
Probably 'a matter of opinion' then George - and my opinion would only be changed if he now actually did what he said he would do !
And we all know that same circle includes the 'ever-reliable' Carl C. of course.....
The 'mystery' of the P38/BeCM will not be resolved by being anal (literally) !
Hmmm... sounds less like a Doctor and more like a Disease then ?
That's appalling, sorry to hear that Marty: Looks like a BeCM guru like you can get a good handle on the hardware/contents but it could still stall for firm/software reasons unfortunately
I will (try to !) open a dialogue with LR anyway and report back; A while back (when I was trying to develop a cheap SRS-resetting tool) I had a dialogue with some non-LR folks who indicated that LR sometimes sell proprietary protocol etc data to third parties. Obviously this is not much use if LR ask for £££ for BeCM secrets etc but as they have not made these for 15 years maybe they will be more 'understanding' now (but don't hold your breaths !)
Interesting discussion.... but again I would suspect the usual 'Reverse Engineering' problem here: Not just getting the Code off the chips but interpreting it accurately enough to modify it (?). Serious point though - is it worth us asking LR as a 'group of enthusiasts' etc for some (really) useful 'secret' BeCM info ? If their T4 is no longer about it would seem like a very reasonable request....
Well I certainly have to agree with your comments about French/Italian reliability; Many look great but some don't even qualify as 'cars' IMHO !
But, being more serious for a moment, it's not just about blown bulbs (which frankly we should notice anyway... eg. in the dark..) but I would only really consider the BeCM 'sophisticated' if it could be re-programmed to do something different and useful (if necessary) - and top of the list would be an (audible) engine temperature alarm, followed by a CKP failure indicator (although I realise the ECU would have to send that info. to the BeCM) ! ( Plus a few other driver-friendly things,,,)
There is really no reason why a truly sophisticated system could not for instance display more useful data than 'EAS Fault' and 'SRS Fault' /'Airbag fault' and the like... As I said earlier I know this is not meant to help the owner, it is intended to help the stealers..... Obviously (slightly) later full OBD compliance and CANBUS etc are certainly better and much more sophisticated.
Maybe I am too aware of (US) OBD developments but LR however clearly chose to keep the data available to owners to a minimum: There is enough intelligence in the BeCM to do more.. but it's 'a secret'. And we won't 'Save The Planet' by buying new cars just because our old ones have (££) 'secret systems'. After 10 years the manufacturers should make the code freely available/ /Rant Off - but better stop anyway before I start to talk about diesels/evils !!
_
Ferryman wrote:
Oh well, I thought I'd say something nice about the P38...
Ah, Ok, that's a different matter... Mechanically it is really solid; Electronically though it is like blancmange - or do I mean merigue...!?
Anyway I am sure that we all have our stories about our P38s but quite a few years back I was very impressed when I (accidentally) drove through 3' of water at speed (- thought it was a wet road not a flooded one....); About 20 yards of it - but the car hardly twitched.. excellent...!!
Somewhat later I realised just what would have happened if I had stopped in that 'stream' and the BeCM got wet !!
Oh and my other half will not even drive it - thanks to (too) many 'Key Code Lockout' episodes...
To be fair it will say 'FRONT INDICATOR BULB FAILURE' and the speeded-up click clack will indicated which side...
but perhaps the compromise here is to agree that the BeCM could be considered 'sophisticated' 20 years ago ?
On a more general point though I am quite serious that in these 'techy' days I do expect a car to tell me if there is
a problem - and just what that issue is (reasonably) specifically, not just (deliberately) flash up some "Check Engine"
light so I then have to go to the stealers to find out (and often at huge expense, of course) !
If it were not for BBS 'cracking their secret code' I really wonder many P38's would still exist ?
Maybe I am being too picky but if it told me exactly which bulb was gone (and the type of bulb) I might be impressed......
Unfortunately the BeCM remains 'State Of The Ark' to me !
EDIT: Come to think of it I also want it to provide me with Fault Codes without an external box....
even if that meant JLR could not charge me an arm/leg to read/reset them,,
as per their original intention !