Well how about a Deal (or Not) on this one ?: ebay item 292199609789

For £5K++ you get a bunch of ancient/priceless IT kit too....
Wonder what EKA number is in the Box/BECM....?
Not exactly a piece of history though IMHO.

Yes it would be best if the MOT folks mentioned the advisories before issuing the cert...

(I had one -not P38- where they listed the lights as the wrong colour although it was OEM; Resolved/removed at the following MOT)

If/when you sell just explain these 'bandages' to the potential new owners.... and it's easy to prove thanks to the EAS !

Good it's sorted now but what exactly are those wire loops added for (and 'best guess' OB) ?
Had a quick check on other fora but could not find anything..... intriguing....
Might be to stop someone 'borrowing' your Rod but I doubt it....

First one looks distinctly dodgy .... 50K miles my XXXX (probably) based on MOT history. Now showing 190K miles.....
'Odometer will be re-calibrated' my XXXX too ! Chancers.....

In fact I fitted that connector after doing that crawl a couple of times Gilbertd...
Yes, with an iffy EAS and, being a P38, it was quite an oily/mucky crawl, too !!

+1 to chopping those superlock wires; You could, of course fit a switch so you can connect/disconnect superlock at will - but as Gilbertd explained in the normal situation you can still superlock with the key (only), however if the battery then flattens (for various reasons) you then have a major entry problem.

(At one point I had a not-very-easy-to-get-to-unless-you-knew-where-it was waterproof 12V connector to charge the battery up if it was completely flat,
-again for those usual reasons- but even then the BECM can get upset when the battery is recharged and maybe disable the engine..... Mine's a '95)

First, thanks for the photos RutlandRover; When I crawl underneath it's still all just a foot or so away so it's always helpful to see the big picture.

Yes the Radius Arms are fine: it is just an optical illusion that makes one look bent; I have a photo of an (actually) bent one if you want to compare thanks to a hefty (~25mph Audi A6) wallop - and I needed a new diff./axle (The end of axle was only deflected by about 8mm: These things are tough.....)

Whoa ! Best Stretch Bolts/Stud rationale I ever read.... explains a lot, Cheers !
Thanks for the Recommended Reading List too !!
Edit: Just bought the 'Structures' book for a tenner.

Don't like stretch bolts much either, they actually make me think that my
Torque Wrench is 'pulling on a worm' too ....just at the point of becoming
a meal for said bird... Tweet ! >>> Snap !

Yes it's the blue cable, just add a length of wire to it (but I doubt it will make much difference but is worth a try)

Guessing you already read:
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/becm/alarm.html

It is still much more likely to be the iffy contacts on the battery so the fob is only getting 3 Volts not 6; See #11 (para 6) on:-

https://rangerovers.pub/topic/400-so-what-makes-the-fob-and-becm-flip-out-for-no-known-reason

"Today, I've prised off the battery cover and changed the batteries for brand new Panasonic ones. There is still no reaction from the car when the buttons are pressed. The antenna in the rear window is showing signs of deterioration but it still doesn't work when I put the fob right next to the receiver in the rear wing. Gilbertd suggested making a replacement antenna from a bit of wire about 8 inches or so long. Is there any more to this than unplugging the actual antenna and jamming the wire in the socket? If that doesn't work, does any one else have any suggestions? Is it possible to test if the receiver itself works? "

Well it could certainly still be your fob (eg the batteries/contacts) which is problematic of course... and If you have made a replacement antenna just as Gilbertd suggested and it does not really make any difference it tends to add to that suggestion. You can only really check the receiver is OK by hanging a 'scope on the output to the BECM (orange)

_

Immediately behind the binnacle (in fact mounted on the back of it) is the small speaker that emits the 'Beep-Beep-Beep' noise and also the indicators operation audible confirmation etc; Not known it to 'tick tick' at random but it is (fairly) easy to disconnect to check.....

Meant to add this link earlier for anyone unfamiliar with Gen 1/2/3 Receiver differences:

http://www.mez.co.uk/page12.html

See photos:

• Left is the original (useless) Gen. 1. item...

• Middle is the Gen. 2. (almost as useless) 'interim' one, available from 2004: The 'shielding' can around the RF chippery may have provided some limited protection against local higher-powered transmitters (and their harmonics) but it did not solve the more general problem....

• Right is the Gen. 3 offering (originally £170, went out of production then reappeared 4 years ago at £300); This has 'smarts' to distinguish between genuine RR fob signals and (any other 433) 'imposters'

With the Gen. 1 Rcvr. using virtually any car's plipper resulted in pulses being sent off from the receiver to the BECM, thus waking it up and (frequently) confusing the security/alarm within...

Incidentally there are folks selling used Gen 3's for less than £200 on e-bay but get a photo of the 'guts' first before parting with any money...
or else you may just be paying £200 for a 'misleading' round green sticker....!

Would have been useful to have either of those hand-held Analysers when I was investigating this myself... !

For info. from my own experiences there seem to be two main types of RF interference that cause the Rcvr./BECM combo to play up (albeit inconsistently):

One is a steady (and powerful) RF signal (of any high frequency) which swamps the front end of the Gen. 1 and renders it 'uncooperative'

• In one case it was a VHF Credit Card Authorisation system in a Petrol Station (and I was parked close to the dipole used for this system): The RF was present all the time (ie. not just when authorising) so there must have been a constant Carrier present too (?).

• In another case, again VHF, I was next to a railway station - and it seems some of these have a private communication system for signalling station-to-station.

The other cases were mainly where there are lots of other cars (ie. 433 fobs) around, such as in a busy multi-storey car park. I never worked out exactly how many (presumed) 'entry attempts' it took to upset the BECM though. (At that time I even considered fitting a counter to the system but never got around to it.)

In fact I tried various attenuation, screening and/or passive filters on my Gen 1. to make it all more 'selective' and it improved the situation but only slightly. Still could not bring myself to pay £300 for RR's Gen 3. 'solution' to their dire design though..... Even their Gen 2. only puts the Rcvr. chip in a can (and that did not work for them either) !

The other thing that I could not quite understand is why this was not (apparently) a bigger problem in the US (Obviously it is 315Mhz there but FCC rules allow for much greater RF powers galore). I started to wonder if there had been some kind of Class Action involved so the later generation Rcvrs. were provided FOC..?

When I was investigating the problem with my Gen 1 Rcvr. I decided that if you just stopped/ locked the car (with the fob) it may be fine, ie. it would unlock straight away - but if I was away for a while and there were lots of other (433Mhz) RF signals present (such as in a large/full car park....) over a period of time it - the BECM - seemed to count these signals as re-entry attempts and then (after some largish number of these other signals) simply deny my RR RF fob unlock signals altogether..... and the best way to check this of course is to lock and then unlock immediately at those same locations where you noted this problem.

As previously stated the Gen 1. Rcvr. is so 'wideband' all kinds of RF signals could sometimes do this (if powerful enough) not just 433Mhz....
but I never resolved this issue entirely even after doing the usual 'modifications' such as changing the attenuation on the window antenna etc.

I would be very interested what you can see with your Spectrum Analyser: I just used a 'scope on the feed for Rcvr. to BECM and could often
see all kinds of RF stuff being picked up by my Gen 1. (and not just those 433 weather-stations and door-bells etc either !)

Yes there do seem to be all kinds of such 'fibbers' on e-bay these days: Who are this bunch ?
(ie. shame and name: Hope the engine is OK, though !)

Fair enough OB, but I did say temporarily.... !

Frankly a couple of times I have considered not taking my P38 on long trips but just hiring something else instead...
as it would certainly make a holiday trip (much) less stressful - so just enjoy the break from the P38 heartache !!

Incidentally I have known K-Seal to work with smaller leaks like yours

Assuming it is the HG -and so you will at some point strip it all down to replace it- have you (seriously) considered using K-Seal temporarily OB ?

I have to admit that when I went through all this ( and all the associated hassle and inconvenience of course ) I eventually gave up and resorted to e-bay and used a " 12V RF relay 2CH " (at about a tenner with two fobs.....)

Although it meant I would have to carry an additional fob around at least I could use it for two really irritating p38 'features' so I can now, and with the press of a button:
1) Cut off the power to that garbage LR Gen 1 Rcvr. (and remove bogus RF BECM wake-ups and lock-outs etc)
2) Cut off power to the EAS relay whilst parked (and remove those BECM wake-ups and its 'overnight bag dance')

After all the lock-outs and flat batteries etc I really could not bring myself to buy a £300 LR rip-off Gen 3 Rcvr. due to their really dire original design/s !

Now also considering a 4CH device (eg. see ebay item 371891099809) so I can just flash my lights (and/or indicators) remotely too.....
(Note that this cheap Chinese RF/433 stuff often has quite a range and so may affect other Gen 1 Rcvrs. so must be used wisely !)

gordonjcp wrote:

So have we got an idea what sort of header the key receiver is looking for? Sounds like the sort of thing an "aftermarket" box could be created for.

Unfortunately it's not really the header that is the most significant part but the (proprietary) rolling code immediately behind it that counts !

Orangebean wrote:

I'd think that high-powered "wideband" RF noise can still overwhelm the receiver. Maybe it's smart enough to think it's being attacked and lock itself down? Doubt it though.

I put a 'scope on the back of my own (Ist Gen) Rcvr. once and was amazed at how much RF stuff it picked up, from frequent random bursts to very infrequent and slow pulses: It was basically acting as though it was a wideband Rcvr ! Some of this impinging RF (if powerful enough) will probably swamp the front end of the Rcvr. too. But the main problem I suspect is the BECM seems to behave as though it counts RF pulses etc (from any/all sources) and then may 'get difficult' beyond a certain number of what it perceives as multiple attempts to communicate.... Didn't establish exactly how many bogus pulses it took to upset the BECM like this but it may have been a lot (20+ ?) which can happen in some places in a few hours of course. (Note for this 'test' I basically stood next by the car continually operating a non-LR but 433Mhz 'plipper' -for some time- until the " Key Code" lockout showed up - and it didn't always do this either... aka 'a non-conclusive experiment' !)