Thanks very much Brian - a detailed pic, highlighted like that is really useful. Makes a lot more sense now - I had been wondering about the exact nature of the coolant channels through the heads and manifold, and now I know!

I've been reading and googling and there's a "worm hole" opening up here..... I've seen a comment about 'doing the cylinder head gaskets while you're that far into it'. Especially as I'd certainly plan to do the rocker cover gaskets. I'll take some more pics myself, but in looking at the car this morning there were a couple of bits where I did begin to wonder if the LH/NS head gasket was suspect.

I've never taken a cylinder head off, but there's a first time for everything. I'll take and post some more pics for advice though before commiting to something like that.

Another mile on my pilgrimage to the font of P38 knowledge...!

My offering today is that I managed to replace the transfer box oil all by myself! 2.2L out - looking pretty black I may say; 2.3 odd L in. No great drama there - except that it initially drained faster than I expected, and missed the collecting bowl..! More floor cleaning.

Then to examine the coolant leak. Pulled the inspection plate off - a little 'grimy' but as it's possibly been there for 20 years, I wouldn't say it was excessive.

Certainly no sign of water or corrosion in there.

The core plugs on the OS of the block look pretty good too.

This is the worst one - on the NS - most exposed to road spray, but you can see the one next to it, which is more sheltered, is pretty good.

So I'm assuming the ones inside the bellhousing are going to be OK, and the leak isn't coming from there (yay!).

I cleaned the area up and because I'd had the engine running a little to power up the EAS compressor, I could then see a little pink leak trace down the outside of the bellhousing.

Very hard to get a look in behind the top of the engine - all this really tells me is that this rocker gasket is leaking...

Maybe more signs of dried up, pink coolant here. The green line is my best guesstimate for the path of the leak - which I hope points to the valley gasket...?

Off to delve into the WSM with a stiff drink.

oh... and my EAS collet/O ring re-seating didn't work....

Thanks very much Gd,
I did in fact use an approved crochet hook! I also trimmed a smidge off the pipe, smoothed the end and stuck it back in - but I did just have to re-use the O rings. They were new in at Christmas anyway when I rebuilt the block with an X8R kit. I'll see how it goes tomorrow. The collet itslf is maybe past its best, but fingers crossed.

I tried to have a good look for the source or path of the coolant, but it's hard to get a clear view. Because the engine sits at an angle in the car, I thought a gasket for the water pump might have gone, and the leak was just running down to the lip of the engine sump, but I can't see any sign of that. I'll get back underneath tomorrow and have another good look, and remove that inspection plate and see what it's like in there.

Neither the valley gasket, or core plugs sound like things to fill me with joy, but a gasket sounds a lot better than dropping the gearbox out... I assume that would be needed to tackle the core plugs? It would be a shame if it was something like that, as the car has only done 78,000 miles.

Hey ho. Let's see what tomorrow brings.

Ah well, definitely another uppy/downy day today.... and that was just the EAS!

On the up side, I got the gearbox refilled. I'd made a mistake somewhere here about how much AFT came out. I think I got about 5.9L out of it, and about 6.1L in - happy enough with that, though 'note to self', park car with exhausts to the door next time I do that.

In the 'new tradition' I also dismantled the old filter - nothing too scary in there. Some small gritty stuff, but no chunks. Once settled, the drained oil had the usual fine metallic paste in it, but I believe that's nothing much to worry about.

Then on the down side, I heard a hissing from the EAS box area, sprayed on some soapy water and noticed that this pipe/collet was leaking :-( I pulled it out, reseated the O rings and tidied up the pipe end. Haven't tried it yet - that's a job for tomorrow.

And now the biggest downer - I posted a similar pic above - but I investigated these drops while I was under the car. This is very definitely coolant not ATF, and quite a quick leak too. If it's wiped away, the drops reappear pretty quickly.

It 'looks' like it's coming from the bellhousing. Is there anywhere in there for a coolant pipe or seal to leak? Or, it could be coming from elsewhere and just running down there. I put a little over a litre of coolant into the expansion tank to bring it up to level.

So, off to open a bottle of wine and study the workshop manual......

(Defender behaved itself today...!)

Dropped another 4.5L of ATF out of my gearbox after letting it sit for another week... think that's about 9L that's come out now. I think I'll need to go any buy another 5L of ATF before I fill it tomorrow.

Meanwhile, in another part of the car.... I think I saw a post recently about the availability of Marty/Sloth's RF key fob filters, but they're showing as 'out of stock' on the website. Can anyone remember that post, or know what the latest is? I have the trim panel off, so I thought I might as well 'future proof' the car and fit one.

Thanks gents - I'll speak to the insurance company first and see what they say. It hadn't occurred to me that a 'manufacturing issue' like the bonding might be covered.

I took mine out a couple of months ago - still out!

As David says, the post trims and door rubbers are the thing. There's a good video somewhere that I watched first - on one of the other forums, but accessible to non-members. It might have been landyzone... which I joined once, but left quickly because of the high proportion of (apparently) 5 year old contributors!

Anyway, the video is pretty good, and highlights leaving the rear pillar trims and clips in until last, to give you room to work; and I think fully reclining the front seats to allow the lining to lie down on top of them.

Even when it's completely loose, it's still not the easiest thing to get out of the back of the car. You'll need a fair bit of space behind the vehicle to pull it out.

Hey guys,

I have some windscreen woes - which I'd put up earlier on the thread where I try and loosely document progress/issues: P38 ups and downs

But I now have more specific questions about windscreen removal/refit and I thought it would be better to put them here for others' future reference.

Basically, my original windscreen has unbonded itself down the passenger side and a little way along the top. I have removed all the trims and the windscreen itself is completely 'exposed'. However, no-one in my town wants to come and do a 'homer'. I spoke to a guy at one of the bigger chains today, and they get sacked if anyone finds out....

I'm also an idiot - I'm morally against the principle and waste of just putting a stone through it and calling my insurance company. Hell, part of the rationale of running a 20 y/o car is to keep as much of it as possible - even the windscreen. Even if I do all this, and then get a stone chip/crack next month, I'll girn, but my conscience would be clean.

The workshop manual has some detailed instructions on windscreen removal/replacement (how to prep the old sealant, bead widths and location etc etc) so I'm leaning towards doing this myself. I have a wire saw; I have two or three suction handles; the car is under cover in a garage so there's no weather stress, and so on. I have access to a more-or-less willing assistant.... Someone, somewhere linked to a neat looking 90' blade on a handle, with a pull chain, which looks like it would make a neater job than a wire saw, and I'd be tempted to get one of them to avoid the potential for murdering the trim along the inside bottom of the windscreen (unless this comes out?).

Which leads me to the questions - has anyone done this themselves and got any learning points they picked up?

Does that soft-looking interior trim (front of dash/bottom of windscreen) come out?

On replacement would you just rest the screen on the two tabs highlighted in the pic below, and just lay it down backwards into place?

How heavy is this thing?

Anything else I haven't thought of?

Finally - my instinct is to do this 'properly' i.e. to remove it, and replace, that way you know it's all good. However, it's clearly an awkward job and much of the original bonding - let's say 75% - seems OK. Obviously I've no way of knowing how long it will stay that way, but it could be a long time. Is there any mileage in just thoroughly cleaning up what's there, and running an additional bead of sealant alongside the lengths where the original has failed?

Many thanks!

I like the concept behind this thread! I know I've had lots of these over the years with my various LR vehicles or others I've worked on - but unless it was 'yesterday' then I tend to try and push them away into the darker recesses of memory.

In general (more Defender-related) I've been really impressed by the lengths the designers went to to ensure maximum opportunties for aluminium vs steel catalytic corrosion, by sandwiching different metals together, in as many places as possible, and avoiding any form of physical barrier. Brilliant!

PS I'm not a great fan of the propshaft fixings either - even with the special tool.

Thanks for the replies guys, all good learning for me at the moment. For example, the idea of the cooler pipes leaking just hadn't occurred to me yet. Now I know it's something to look for.

In terms of seals wearing - I know mileage wouldn't be a definitive barrier to this, but the car has only done 78k miles. So I'd hope that it might be something 'easier' at this stage. I guess 20 y/o pipes could still age and leak....

If the pipes need replaced is that an easy job? From looking at the diagrams, they seem quite long and convoluted?

Thanks GD - I mainly asked because I have several standard, 35amp, 4-pin relays kicking about already. I can just swap one in easily enough.

However, just to better understand this overall - I believed that swapping relays had no 'down side', with the exception that there would be no diagnostics available.

Would pulling Fuse 44 deliver the same objective (no self-levelling) while still allowing diagnostics?

Thanks.

Just a quick little bump - does the 4 pin relay that replaces the timer need to have any particular rating? Will a standard 35amp do the job?

Mine settles overnight, I think because the RHR bag is leaking a little, and its normal parking spot is a little uneven. To help me diagnose this further I think I will swap out the timer relay for a few days to see what happens, but I did see one reference somewhere to a 40amp relay...?

Thanks muchly.

^^ thanks for that. I'll post when I get round to that.

These show the pollen filter - sealed scuttle, seal 'sealed', housing in place

Leaky looking gearbox sump...

The leak itself isn't small, and is 'red'. (and that's an earlier P38 leak below/left which I'd cleaned up previously)

Apart from the gearbox sump, there's a bit of 'red stuff' on the bellhousing. Any ideas about this?

Just as I edited the pic to highlight the drips, it occurred to me that I didn't touch the drips to see if they were oily or watery/coolant.... the stuff on the floor is definitely oil/ATF

Well, it has been pretty cold up here until recently. This weekend had a spring feel about it, so time to crack on!

I have some pics, but I'm doing this on the ipad, so that's beyond my tech know-how....

Over Xmas I had rebuilt the EAS valve block and tried to do the compressor. Valve block went Ok, the compressor was a previous 'refurb' one, and the grub screw which holds the piston in place had rounded. Got a good refurb ordered and fitted - but I hadn't run the car for weeks until yesterday, with the battery out and on a trickle charge.

Plugged in the battery, turned her on, and there were a few anxious moments waiting for the springs to fill - but dopey forgot all the doors need to be closed! Once I remembered that, up she came. Seems good.

After that I got the refurbed sunroof in. I think it's more or less OK, but maybe the new seal hasn't compressed enough yet. If the sunroof is tilted open, there's still a bit of effort involved in pulling it down flush with the roof - the seal seems just a bit big. It's a genuine LR seal, for whatever that's worth these days. But, worst case scenario, it fills the hole so I could still drive the car!

I also cleaned up the scuttle panel and sealed the pollen filter covers into place - I don't think they were leaking anyway, but they certainly won't be now!

Still haven't managed to find a windscreen guy to pull the screen off and reseal - and that's a pain, as it's holding other stuff up now.

Today, I drained the gearbox oil, pulled the sump off and replaced the filter, O rings and gasket. I haven't refilled it yet, I ran out of time, but we'll be good to go on that some time soon. While the car's been sitting there, it has leaked quite a bit. Some of it was around the sump drain plug, but there's more escaping around the front of the bellhousing. I have pics, but like I say, they'll need to wait till I'm on the desktop.

Got about 4.3L of ATF out of the box - that sound about right? Stone cold, and hadn't moved more than 10 yards in a month.

Hey - that's encouraging! I still haven't fitted my 'refurbed' sunroof back onto the car - it's just been too cold up here, but we've been above freezing for a few days, so maybe this weekend.

I can see that you looked at this thread anyway, but I think you've highlighted another example of the same sunroof/frame weakness. It might help someone else in future to tie them together.
https://rangerovers.pub/topic/2263-sunroof-woes-what-solvent?page=1#pid31556

I took some pictures as I was going along with the refurb but I've yet to bring the thread to a close.

Looking forward to being 'as dry as the Sahara' myself.

I've just fitted a new, genuine seal around mine (but it's been too damn cold to put it on the car yet.)

I think I follow what you're saying - that water would slip down between the seal and the body, when the roof is closed, and then run 'inboard' along the glass?

I think that's unlikely tbh. On the sides of the sunroof, a water drip would need to make its way past the sides of the frame bonded to the glass - it would drip onto the tray first. And, if the car was parked level, the water would be tyring to flow uphill.

On the front of the sunroof, there's a metal strengthening bar - I think it would do the same as the side frame - force any water to drip down into the tray.

The only place I can maybe see it is at the back, where the bonded frame is at its thinnest, but even then, there's quite a curve on the glass, and I think it's more likely the water would run down to the sides.

I'm guessing, but I think if you put anything else into the seal, it might make the motor work harder to seat the sunroof, maybe stressing another part of the assembly?

Is this a problem that's got worse recently? If so, given the temps it is more likely to be condensation.

Hi Gd - the information I have from the V5s is that the first owner was in Ripon; 2nd in Durham; and I'm the 3rd. Not to say they didn't keep the car by the marina, or the 2nd cottage in Cornwall, but I don't think so. I suspect the underside rust is just from being that little bit further north = roads salted more often. Though again, at ca 72k when I got it, it hasn't seen as many miles as others.

The fact that my original sunroof, and the one that came from the breaker were exactly the same suggests to me that this is just a more generic issue

Harv, I reckon it's thin metal, with only minimal protection. Then, if you imagine driving along a main road here during the 'salty roads' season, you'll be driving through a cloud of salty spray. Some of this must make it onto the sunroof, and underneath the seal, where it doesn't drain well.

Added to that, it's probably a little warmer up there sometimes, either sunshine, or heat from the car. So I reckon there's a pretty toxic combination of factors contributing to this.

I suppose, if it's repainted, and I put a bead of mastic inside the new seal, that mine should now be good for another 5 or 10 years and that ought to be enough.

Just to close this off....

RIP Old sunroof - sorry I brought you to this:

Back to the 'new one' - I tried heat on the back of the frame, and it only made a marginal difference if any in terms of softening the bonding. But to be honest I was probably too gentle with it - I didn't want another glass to split into tiny cubes.

So I was still at it, hacking away, a millimetre at a time and getting frustrated and shouty. My wife upstairs heard me, came down and we both had a go at it. I was still getting grumpy, so I was banished to the outside garage. 20 minutes later she came out with a sunroof frame...!

It turns out, where I was thinking about what suitable things I might have in my toolbox - she was thinking 'kitchen implements' and did the job with a bread knife and an old carving knife..... So you can have heat, and solvents, but "Mk 1 Wife" is the thing to use..!!

Two frames, one sunroof:

Having had the difficult bit done for me, this is what's exposed - you can see why the glass and the frame parted company.

The adhesive was still very firmly attached to the glass, but only bonded to rust around the frame. I think the only reason the leading edge was still attached so strongly is that the strengthening channel on the leading edge doesn't rust, and the bonding sticks to that really strongly.

Ho hum - brushed down and painted with the rust converter. Painted tomorrow.

Having done all this, I'll bond and clamp it and hope for the best - but I think Chris is right when he says if it isn't leaking, don't go here.

Thanks Dave,

I'm still drinking my coffee and googling for solutions. Seems like the rusty sunroof frame/glass bonding issue is quite a common issue in many older cars. Found it on Fiat and old Rover forums amongst others.

Heat has been used to split them apparently. I've no worries about acetone or meths affecting paintwork or whatever as the glass is off the car, and in my downstairs 'workshop'

I did find our very own Marty talking about this issue on 'the other side'. He said he'd split the assembly into its component parts and repaired it.

So current plan is to try the heat gun and some plastic wedges... wish me luck!