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The only place for a coil spring is up Zebedee's arse
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Didn't bother watching the clip OldShep but (and hopefully this is the last time I say this...) it is not about ME answering questions it is about the Politicians replying and responding to CC with something other than lies and/or platitudes and/or empty promises.....

(As for Piers there is somebody who really should 'grow up' of course)

Yes romanrob, apt mixed metaphors too ! I suppose when the insults started I wondered if these same remarks had been made about their daughters (and/or grandaughters) if a 'scuffle' might ensue; Happy to get back on track and Reduce My (Invective) Emissions too if it helps the discussion !

Fair points Bolt; But I suspect, as you mentioned a while back, that as yet none of us have (or can face) 'the answers'; I genuinely wonder what we have done for our Children's Children's futures.... and they wonder too of course (and so we really should expect their wrath to an extent). It is not just ICE either of course... (better stop there before I start on plastics !!)

  • Long story Short but I have lost count of the number of times I have told (young) folks how much more sensible it is to keep cars on the road than "just buy a new one" and most of them understand. In one case I convinced a bunch of local kids that by repairing one of mine (head gasket) and thus re-cycling it I had 'in fact' done the same as if their folks had re-cycled a million Baked Bean tins.....

-Anyway, yes indeed, let's just 'agree to disagree' - if it helps - so you get the drinks in and I will get some crisps (chips !) ;

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Politicians can't do much if they're not in power and they won't get in power or stay in power if they do things people don't want them to do.

Winston Churchill said "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" and people agreed.
The Green Party could say "The day after we get in power we will legislate to make running ice cars illegal" and not many would agree.

People see one of the above situations as worth it regardless of cost and effect on quality of life, they see the other situation as pissing into the wind if the rest of the world isn't going to do the same... And for the most part they are correct on both points. Can't really blame a politician for not having a policy that even you apparently don't support and you apparently don't support it because you could have got rid of your ice car already. You must realise it would be hypocritical to e.g. write a letter to your local politician saying you want him to push for banning ice cars while you still run an ice car?

If you turned up at school handing books out in a P38 you could attempt to justify it by telling kids you've recycled it and it costs more in terms of energy/emissions to build a new electric car but they could ask why you didn't turn up on your bike or on the bus. If you won that argument they might all aspire to buy old ice cars when they're old enough lol. So in 2030 like in 2019 grown up kids don't vote for a politician who wants to scrap ice cars, by this point our emissions as a country are even more negligible in total world emissions than they were in 2019 (rising emissions from e.g. India) so it'd be even more like pissing into the wind. Are you partly at fault for grown up kids attitudes because you turned up at their school in a P38? True that it's worse to build a new car than keep an old one running and I don't want to be without a car or have a car that won't tow my boat 350 miles without having to wait an age for recharging... so I think I'll run my old ice cars as long as possible and apparently with your blessing. Greta wouldn't agree so if she does become a politician she won't get my vote.

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Politicians can do quite a lot whether in power or not (via Parliament of course) but come the pending Revolution oops, Election... at least in the UK there is unlikely to be any single Party with an overall Majority... and in part that is due to Brexit (obviously) but, and more broadly, a realisation that there has been too much 'shortermism' (and you might be surprised how many are aware of the folly of that too).

Not sure that what Chrchill said 70 years ago compared to what the Greens might say is partlicularly useful..... although BoJo does like to quote Aristotle of course....

As for the old cars/ICE issues etc the Vehicle Manufacturers and Oil Lobbies etc were behind the dire 'scrappage' schemes of course; If you take a trip to any scrapyard you will see a plethora of (relatively) recent cars of course and many were not just 'written off' in accidents either (and that does not take much these days...)

May be mistaken but I don't think I have seen any EV with a tow ball.... pehaps that's the answer though, they need to tow huge battery packs to increase their range ?!

The schools on my list are all within walking distance; Don't be too offended Lpgc but i don't think Greta would expect your vote either...
but she may be impressed that you have a boat....

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Mostly agreed wahey!

Mind you, if you walked to school and kids asked you what sort of car you run it wouldn't make much difference that you chose to walk that day ;-)

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Well at their school I could always finish the "Long Story Short" I mentioned above:

Some of these kids mentioned it ('a million Baked Bean tins' etc) to their parents who disputed it.... this developed into a further statement I made whereby I indicated that over the years "I had estimated that - and with a view to Global Warming - by repairing/restoring/rescuing all my old cars over the years i was most probably personally responsible for saving the life of a baby Polar Bear" !!

Whilst this clearly struck a chord with the kids their parents were definitely less impressed (and often like to mention it when they see me fiddling with one of my cars on my drive (eg. "Isn't that what garages are for Dave ?" ... "Saving a baby Polar Bear Dave" ?)....

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I have a boat!
It's diesel powered... but hey :)

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Pmsl Dave! The only bit that surprised me there was that your comments struck a chord with the kids...
Just for fun.. They may be pretending to watch you fix cars but really hanging around your gate to make use of your internet lol.

Morat wrote:

I have a boat!
It's diesel powered... but hey :)

Run it on red diesel ;-)

Bet yours works, mine with it's old 2 stroke engine still doesn't :-( But I prefer an engine to an electric motor and battery and want to be able to tell people I've done my bit for polar bears, so I'll repair the engine instead of fitting an electric motor. Or buy a bigger boat ;-)

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well what a load of ....... ,how have you's managed to be manipulated by someone that simply can't be honest with you ,and state exactly what he drives . he says that refurbished vehicles are a savior to the environment and then uses it against you (our vehicles are 20 years old , saved from the scrap heap) yes we all could buy new but why ?
maybe davew can explain where all the money is going and how it is being used to save the world (administration costs?) or how the pacific islands are stating that they are sinking into the ocean when in fact they have increased in size by 70+ha nearly 200 acres or how one scientist can can make false statements about the great barrier reef , saying that an area had 80% permanent bleaching when in fact it was 40% of which 30% would recover within 3 to 4 months, the other scientist that worked on the same issue that stood up and corrected his college was SACKED (unfair dismissal case , 1.2 million dollars compensation, yes he won)
maybe davew can explain why someone that speaks out is attacked and belittled because they don't believe or have a different views, it's like religion you are a believer or not .it will be interesting to sit back and watch exactly what these kids do in 20 years time when they have to deal with the disposal of solar cells li battereys and the like ,. a problem they created for them selves, i could go on but why, no one is going to change whot they do, no child will walk to school or tell the teacher to turn of the air conditioner or the heater . they only showed up because it was a day of school , do it on a Saturday and count the numbers
where did greta get the idea to crap in a plastic bag and dispose of it in the ocean, Iceland i guess, they just put it in a plastic bag throw it on the beach and watch the tide wash it away . good luck pushing it up the hill, thats the contents off the plastic bag!!

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"maybe mad-as can explain why someone that speaks out is attacked and belittled because they do believe or have different views".....?
Did you actually read what I wrote (or what you wrote for that matter) ? Just staggered in from the pub and needed a rant did we ?

Ok, I thought we were ‘back on track’ but apparently not mad-as……and first no - it is really not 'like Religion' either !
Accordingly: WTF does MY lifestyle and/or religion etc etc actually have to do with YOU; As previously stated: "WTF does that prove" ??
‘Thanks' for your load of rude rambling and incoherent rubbish and personal insults “mad-as”: Like the Bible, If you don’t like it don’t read it !

Some light reading for you when you sober up:
And do feel free to contact the authors and ask then what they drive, because clearly that's really the most important issue here !
(Oh and if they won;t tell you don't accuse them of being dishonest either !)

JULY 2019
“The scientific consensus that humans are causing global warming is likely to have passed 99%, according to the lead author of the most authoritative study on the subject, and could rise further after separate research that clears up some of the remaining doubts.

Three studies published in Nature and Nature Geoscience use extensive historical data to show there has never been a period in the last 2,000 years when temperature changes have been as fast and extensive as in recent decades.

It had previously been thought that similarly dramatic peaks and troughs might have occurred in the past, including in periods dubbed the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Climate Anomaly. But the three studies use reconstructions based on 700 proxy records of temperature change, such as trees, ice and sediment, from all continents that indicate none of these shifts took place in more than half the globe at any one time.

The Little Ice Age, for example, reached its extreme point in the 15th century in the Pacific Ocean, the 17th century in Europe and the 19th century elsewhere, says one of the studies. This localisation is markedly different from the trend since the late 20th century when records are being broken year after year over almost the entire globe, including this summer’s European heatwave.

Major temperature shifts in the distant past are also likely to have been primarily caused by volcanic eruptions, according to another of the studies, which helps to explain the strong global fluctuations in the first half of the 18th century as the world started to move from a volcanically cooled era to a climate warmed by human emissions. This has become particularly pronounced since the late 20th century, when temperature rises over two decades or longer have been the most rapid in the past two millennia, notes the third.

The authors say this highlights how unusual warming has become in recent years as a result of industrial emissions.
“There is no doubt left – as has been shown extensively in many other studies addressing many different aspects of the climate system using different methods and data sets,” said Stefan Brönnimann, from the University of Bern and the Pages 2K consortium of climate scientists.

Commenting on the study, other scientists said it was an important breakthrough in the “fingerprinting” task of proving how human responsibility has changed the climate in ways not seen in the past.
“This paper should finally stop climate change deniers claiming that the recent observed coherent global warming is part of a natural climate cycle. This paper shows the truly stark difference between regional and localised changes in climate of the past and the truly global effect of anthropogenic greenhouse emissions,” said Mark Maslin, professor of climatology at University College London.

Previous studies have shown near unanimity among climate scientists that human factors – car exhausts, factory chimneys, forest clearance and other sources of greenhouse gases – are responsible for the exceptional level of global warming.

A 2013 study in Environmental Research Letters found 97% of climate scientists agreed with this link in 12,000 academic papers that contained the words “global warming” or “global climate change” from 1991 to 2011. Last week, that paper hit 1m downloads, making it the most accessed paper ever among the 80+ journals published by the Institute of Physics, according to the authors.

The pushback has been political rather than scientific. In the US, the rightwing thinktank the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) is reportedly putting pressure on Nasa to remove a reference to the 97% study from its webpage. The CEI has received event funding from the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers and Charles Koch Institute, which have much to lose from a transition to a low-carbon economy.

But among academics who study the climate, the convergence of opinion is probably strengthening, according to John Cook, the lead author of the original consensus paper and a follow-up study on the “consensus about consensus” that looked at a range of similar estimates by other academics.

He said that at the end of his 20-year study period there was more agreement than at the beginning: “There was 99% scientific consensus in 2011 that humans are causing global warming.” With ever stronger research since then and increasing heatwaves and extreme weather, Cook believes this is likely to have risen further and is now working on an update.

“As expertise in climate science increases, so too does agreement with human-caused global warming,” Cook wrote on the Skeptical Science blog. “The good news is public understanding of the scientific consensus is increasing. The bad news is there is still a lot of work to do yet as climate deniers continue to persistently attack the scientific consensus.”

PPS: Know all about this too but don't misleadingly misquote it:
https://www.coralcoe.org.au/for-managers/coral-bleaching-and-the-great-barrier-reef
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11852-017-0531-7

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

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Meanwhile back on Earth.....

In fact many conversations with neighbours arise from my 'tinkering with my toys' on the drive Lgpc; Quite a lot start up as the type we all know about :: "My garage (usually main stealer) told me when the car was being serviced that the whuffle-flutter was knarled and so the flonge plate needs replacing"...... You know the rest. Not sure what it is like where you live but it seems there are less 'tinkerers' than there used to be. Some of my neighbours can't even do a '5-minute job' - replace a basic bulb or a windscreen wiper etc - but will happily drive 5 miles to Halfords so they can do it....

As for your boats Lpgc/Morat I had a think about it and decided to ask 'Extinction Rebellion' to research it further, such as introducing mandatory Emissions Tests ..... In fact, come to think of it, there are some of my neighbours with petrol strimmers and the like that are pretty good at making clouds of smoke too..... might report them to the eco-warriors too.... !

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DaveW, I think you have to accept that when the threads go quiet it is not because you have persuaded people of your point of view.

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Morat: And I think you 'have to accept' that i was not actually trying to do that (but then again you have not read my PMs either....)

And just what 'point of view' exactly do you mean ? That it is OK to pick on some young swedish kid or that it is actually all about what i drive myself ?
-We did not really get far into CC because folks were simply too keen to 'purge' negatively and personally, and that is not going to persuade anyone either: You actually had a reasonable crack at it -#154- but were rather inconclusive; Why not read what all the experts are saying and then decide (because what you wrote so far was woefully 'unpersuasive' !)

In case you did not realise I am really unconcerned by what you think about my views - and how little you have actually 'added' to the 'debate' - but, and for for the last time, it is NOT ABOUT ME !! ... It seems the the world is full of people who will say 'you are wrong' and then fail miserably with their attempts to prove that....

Read some of the links, do some proper research and then try to come back with something meaningful and constructive (and not personal) !

There is really no point in taking 'pops' at me just because you actually don't have the answers to what the experts are saying....
(and, as even you will have noted, I'll retaliate ! )

Anyway, your awareness starts here ! ........

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

You see I sincerely believe (other than due to all the unecessary insults) 'it goes quiet' because folks actually don't have the answers to these particular kind of independent, science-based facts....and we are not going to change/save the planet with a few vague anecdotes.....
and even the kids know that now too; History will refer to this as the 'Trump Tweet Bounce' !

(And incidentally Morat I fully realise you will read all this, lean back in your chair. and state
"see how easy it is for me to wind Dave up with one of my 'clever' one-liners ?" !)

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No Dave, people go quiet because they are pissed off with your rantings. We are all aware of Climate Change, we are all aware that politicians will try to offer platitudes to keep the more vocal quiet, we are all aware that the emissions from motor vehicles have such a minuscule effect on climate change compared with other sources of greenhouse gases, we are also aware that even if a tiny country like the UK stopped all greenhouse gas emissions it would have absolutely no effect whatsoever.

I think the only thing we can do now to bring this to a close is to stop feeding the troll......

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Come on guys, I've got a fuelling/ mapping problem on my P38 and all you guys can talk about is climate change :o) give it a rest... help me fix-my-mix and you will have done your bit for the environment

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Is she a bit smoky? :)

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smelly, rather than smoky, and the new exhaust/ cats and o2 sensors don't seem to have helped much

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Richard would that be the 'rantings' where I keep having to repeat myself or is that the 'rantings' where people insulted me, or both ???
Either way even if they were p'd off they should still show more courtesy..... however nasty or passive agressive their remarks have been !

Anyway, back on topic

in your reply you say 'we' would that be all of rrpub or _all of the world _or just a selected few ?? I ask because there are some who may beg to differ with this

"....we are all aware that the emissions from motor vehicles have such a minuscule effect on climate change compared with other sources of greenhouse gases, we are also aware that even if a tiny country like the UK stopped all greenhouse gas emissions it would have absolutely no effect whatsoever........"

Notably:

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/car-emissions-global-warming
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions

On that basis I can, for example, assure you I have suggested that folks don't buy Chinese stuff !

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I might have a Chinese tonight lol.

On topic is ;'zero carbon emissions from the uk by 2030 :-('. Which would have to involve getting rid of all our ice cars by then...
And Romanrob's got a fuelling problem...

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Votes to ban the troll? I'm bored of him now. His noise to signal ratio is off the chart.

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Lpgc wrote:

I might have a Chinese tonight lol.

On topic is ;'zero carbon emissions from the uk by 2030 :-('. Which would have to involve getting rid of all our ice cars by then...
And Romanrob's got a fuelling problem...

I think hes currently thinking along the lines of a petrol injector issue of some sort, at least based on the post in the other thread.