Hmm, looks like it isn't likely to be that then. Will have to have a look over the wiring as the fault is obviously there somewhere, I'm starting to think its like something has come unplugged from the ecu given the amount of faults its showing and lack of diagnostics as well.
I've had an issue previously after some welding work was done (this is actually on a Disco 2 but its the same part used on the p38) where the inertia switch was tripped, this gave a few symptoms as follows
Failure to start (Cranks but not firing)
Hazard lights flashing when trying to start
Diagnostics fail to connect
Above was obviously sorted by resetting the swtich. However that was several months ago, Today I've driven the car around 35 miles and around a mile from the end of the journey pulled up at traffic lights. On pulling away car suddenly isn't running right (its been fine prior to that) Limped it the last mile or so and left it for a bit at that point.
Tried to start it a couple of hours later - LPG system is in protest mode (beeping) and engine clearly isn't running right. So out comes the Nano - which will not connect to the engine ecu no matter what I try (its been fine previously). So fire up the diagnostics for the LPG and find thats its complaining of several errors, some of which are probabbly from the original inertia switch incident, but 4 current ones are "petrol injector no signal on channels 2/4/5/6" which would explain the symptoms. live readings also show 0 for those 4 channels (2 and 4 would be the drivers side bank, 5/6 the front two on the passenger side bank)
My first thought was damaged wiring, but I think this unlikely as theres no obvious evidence of any damage, and for all 4 to fail like that seems unlikely. It also wouldn't explain the lack of diagnostic connection though the Nano either. I don't have anything unusual happening with the hazard lights on this occasion either.
I've checked Rave, but it has very little to say about the switch or how to test it. There seems to be 3 wires to it, does anyone know how the connections should be if checked on a multimeter or how it actually works? Or is it possible to bridge out connections to remove it as a possibility? If it was 2 or even 4 connections it would make more sense to me, but 3 doesn't give me much of a clue what it should be doing without another to compare it to?
Or does anyone have an idea of something common to both systems that could be causing the problem? Its a 2000 Thor 4.0 if it makes any difference. Obviously a lot of the bits differ between the p38 and the D2 but I'd imagine the basic engine electrics are fairly similar?
You could always split them into 2 trips if your not sure about it? I'd think the problem would be more one of the space available (I wouldn't want any above the level of the bottom of the windows just in case it slid about as I can't imagine the window would put up with that sort of impact)
I'd have thought as long as your applying it then washing it off with the hose you should be fine in any case. I've used it and would't have expected it to cause any issues really. I've used gunk once and really don't like it.
ATF does dissolve tarmac as I've seen the results of that being allowed to leak onto a tarmac drive. Screwfix do sell plastic sheets, you could drive the car over one of them and use that to cover the tarmac if you wanted to try and avoid too much marking of it. I can't see the degreaser doing much, but what you are removing with the degreaser just might.
Slowly sinking to me sounds more like you've got a small leak - like a pipe come adrift or joint come apart rather than a burst airbag. No answer other than to take a look really though.
Not sure what sizes/dimensions your working with, but I've used the P clips that LPG pipework is usually held with in that situation before. They don't last forever, but are metal with rubber covering and can be bolted or screwed into place. They are also available in many sizes which helps.
As you say not original, but at least its a bit thats hidden underneath in most circumstances.
It may be that they are ones off a different vehicle entirely, they look like what a few Ford vehicles use to me from the photos.
I think the pinout of some of the p38 systems is also somewhat odd as well as using difficult protocals and speeds as well (like some of them were specifically picked to make connection with 3rd party tools more difficult than necessary). I know the Nano uses different leads depending on the vehicle its used with to get around some of this.
Having dealt with a few of the Diagnostic tools, the Nano is a lot better than some other options out there (Renault Clip for example is awful to use and thats the dealer tool)
If you look on the last screen under utlilties it will show the applied unlock codes. If unlock 06 isn't filled in, you don't have a license for GEMS - or if you do, you haven't entered into the Nano.
https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/shop/browse - if you look here, it lists the various codes and the screenshots show against them which code is for which system. Alternatively goto https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/restricted and login with your assocated login, and it will show you there what codes you have (expand the bit with the nanocom id shown on the right hand side)
I have connected to a BECM on a p38 diesel and put in the EKA code, but only have P38 systems, Disco 2, Motronic/Thor and TD5 licenses on mine. Theres also different cables depending on the vehicle your dealing with, the green one is for the p38 but fairly sure you have that (think the blue one likely to work for the engine but maybe not much else on it)
At least you have a definite problem there, so you know your looking in the right place now.
Lpgc wrote:
Gilbertd, I should remember (but can't) who swapped the BMW diesel into their P38... Would they be able to shed some light on your problem?
It's Sloth on here that has done that conversion.
Lpgc wrote:
Gilbertd wrote:
Two person job though as it is a nice tight fit through the grommet in the bulkhead so you need one person inside and one outside to help it through.
I have to thread wires through tight bulkhead grommets often, usually by taping to something stiff like a long 5mm drill bit, bit of 6mm copper pipe or brake pipe. Just had a ball-ache doing it on a Porsche Cayenne turbo, mostly because I'd forgotten where the bulkhead grommets were.
I have to do similar bits at work (not car related, IT in this case) and have found that plastic plumbing pipe works very well. The best stuff is either the tiny pipe used for postmix in Pubs (the soft drinks guns) or the pipe they use for the Beer gases, the later being stiff enough to pass through void spaces where you can't get access to both sides of the hole you need to use. Postmix pipe being much smaller would work well for going through bulkheads for LPG control panel wires.
Are they Britpart bulbs your using? I've only known bulbs to blow frequently if they are poor quality ones or getting damaged in some way.
Is it just one side or both?
Birmingham autogas had a few of the Autogas branded tanks in their yard back when they started removing those, They will also do the tank etc as a ready to hook up skid unit. I think the price they were talking about was around the £6k figure for a unit ready to go when I asked out of curiosity. (plus the gas to fill it obviously).
You'd need to have something for it to sit on, and a suitable electricity supply. But I think you are likely to find that Calor or Flogas would want the same in any case.
You'd also want some way of either charging for the gas on a card etc if your not planning on it being an attended setup.
That said, most of MFG's pumps look like they are well past their best anyway
Trouble is, what are they going to do with the ones they offer on Morrisons sites that they also own?
As said, charging 30p more a litre for the same product would make it not commercially viable, but if you think thats a good business model, you'd believe anything.
I can't see the attraction of charging a car at a petrol station - maybe if you were stuck, but its hardly the kind of place you want to spend more than half an hour at the very most at. Particually most of MFG's forecourts if they are anything like the one nearest to me (which I've used around 4 times this year, whereas the Shell across town gets most of my visits through the week).
ac6 wrote:
Thanks Brian, I hadn't seen they have a similar disclaimer on an exhaust... I guess just protecting themselves.
I'm a big fan of Island, prices are always fair and dispatch times very good.
Yeah, I have a multipoint LPG install on my Thor.Looks like it is a labeling error on the nanocom itself, as you say after conversion those numbers would be way out!
Thanks for checking your MAF readings. Interesting that yours are at a similar value. I can't say the car runs poorly other than sometimes at idle, only on LPG with the AC on - the revs dip every now and then.
Now the engine has had a refresh, the LPG system is next on my list.
Errors P0175 and P0172 seem to be closely linked to a failing MAF though. I might just buy one just to try it. I'm not sure how long the current MAF has been installed, but there are some numbers on it that could suggest a 2017 build date, so potentially not that old.Thanks Richard. I guessed at the new thermostat causing it. It's slightly hotter than I'd have preferred, as it's always nice to have a little more tolerance, but I'll just keep an eye on it for now.
Rechecked mine today, and idle once warm is showing 16/17 on Nano, 2500 rpm showing around 67 if thats any help to you. Obviously can vary depending where you are/ambient temp etc but that should give some idea of values.
Its probabbly a case that they have had some of those items returned before and had grief off the buyers over them would be my guess. I'd suspect a fully warmed up engine might be closer to what your seeing. I'd have taken it out this evening, but It was throwing it down with rain, and I discovered this weekend that the wiper blades have had it (not that they do that good a job clearing the screen when they are in good condtion anyway). I did try last night but discovered the lost codes on the nano, and by the time I'd put them back in and got round to it was getting a bit late to go out and take it upto 2500rpm!
Its possible either injectors or vapouriser is in need of some TLC - injectors more likely to show problems at idle as thats where the fuelling needs to be more precise anyway. Also a leaky vapouriser might be more noticable at idle. If the same codes don't appear on petrol, then you know its got to be down to the LPG side really.
I've seen the same disclaimer on other bits on Island - that one came up searching for LPG on their site.
I've checked mine quickly this evening (Engine not fully warmed up with these figures) and seeing between 30-35 at idle, and 80 at 2500rpm if thats any help on the Nanocom. Having now sorted out the unlock codes that had vanished from it having applied an update, I will check again next time I actually drive it somewhere and let you know if the warmed up figures are different. That said, yours don't look very far out to me, though mine is a Disco 2 rather than p38.
Island seem to do that - the MAF doesn't have any contact with anything on the LPG side of things. When I replaced my MAF I think it came from Euro car parts. (the original one that came with the car was a noname one that clearly wasn't working properly) Having checked now, they currently show £251 for one. I'm sure I didn't pay anywhere near that.
Picking another example
https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/exhaust-genuine-wcd501690-suitable-p-35570.html
How can an exhaust be unsuitable for LPG?
I'd guess this is what your looking at?
https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/mass-airflow-sensor-9902-bosch-mhk100800g-p-4032.html
The backfire comment is sort of fair enough if you were talking about a badly maintained single point system. But you'd be unlikely to install such a system on a Thor engine anyway (and that MAF is only for the Thor type). The Thor intake really isn't ideal for single point anyway, though at least its not a plastic manifold like a lot of other cars of that time.
I wouldn't personally worry about it, Island don't make the MAF they only buy it from Bosch who actually make it, and its the same as you'd buy elsewhere. You want the genuine Bosch one in any case, the Thor is known to be picky on that.
Cheapest I can find for a bosch one is ebay at £90 currently.
Multiplication by 3.6 should convert from g/s to Kg/Hr, which would suggest those figures are very wrong. I can check what the 4.0 in the Disco shows on Nanocom if you want something to compare to just in case its a labelling error?