Morat wrote:
Whatever solution is promoted, I can guarantee it won't be something that allows us to re-use existing vehicles but requires new vehicles. This is the main problem facing LPG - it doesn't get the blessing of the SMMT because it doesn't involve accelerating the product lifecycle and the Government don't like it because it leads to reduced tax income.
These are two reasons I LOVE it.
Maybe the first few fires involving battery powered vehicles will put people off somewhat. Think a Zafira B situation but with added lithium batteries.
I would suspect the way they are looking towards is Hydrogen fuel cell in the hope they can obtain the Hydrogen from somewhere without outlaying massive amounts of energy - They are currently installing the first public filling station in the UK for it at the new Cobham services on the m25.
If you start playing with acetylene on those steering rods you will likely be replacing said rod. Blowtorch probably more appropriate.
I ended up replacing mine on the Disco as the fixed end was shot (after much fighting of what i was told was a separate part which didn't want to separate, only to find when looking at microcat that it wasn't a separate part at all)
Gilbertd wrote:
There's receipts in the folder for work done on the LPG system and for the price the whole system could have been replaced at least 3 times. The venturi on the OMVL mixer is a plastic insert so could have been blown out by one of the big backfires that has split the airbox into 3 pieces but someone has obviously thrown it away not realising what it was or what it was doing in the intake trunking. But it came from London, enough said. While there are cowboys everywhere there seems to be nothing but in London. Having looked through the previous MoTs, it's been tested at the same place for the last 4 years and each time has failed on a number of things that seem unlikely. I suspect they were just failing it, telling the owner it was going to cost X hundred to put it right, he just paid it and they issued a pass.
Theres a special breed of cowboys there I'd agree with you on that for sure.
Might be worth checking their other items sold to see if they sold the fan and other bits that appear to have gone walkies?
Morat wrote:
Some people are just a waste of breath. I've had the LPG conversation with people who seem to think I'm selling fuel magnets or magic beans. Frankly, if Simon can't talk the guy round to LPG he must be one stubborn mofo ;)
I'd hazard a guess there is some sort of issue with the Disco that Guy Salmon are refusing to fix and using the lpg as a Cop-out reason to do so blaming it for causing the issue. It shows you how stupid some people are when they ask why your waiting at the different looking pump and not using any of the others available.
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
you checked for air leaks by spraying carb cleaner around the manifold whilst idling?
Mine always started up and then idled at just over a 1000rpm and then settled down after about 30 secs or so. Idles fine now I've sorted injector.
I checked and cleaned everything on the top looking for the cause. Also found that my butterfly was sticking open a bit but it wasn't that.
Haven't had chance to do anything further as yet, but given that it now looks I might have to have a new radiator (not leaking, but started having high temp shown after driving through a load of long grass - had a look in the front and its full of grass seeds, but looks like the lower section is coated in oil as well as other crap, and appears to be buldging as well, need to get a proper look at it to tell for sure.).
I'll give the carb cleaner a try soon as i get chance.
Aragorn wrote:
What's the difference between internal and external?
Valve on an internal is in the centre of the tank (the hole in the donut shape). External is on the outside edge. At least i think thats what Simon is getting at?
Gilbertd wrote:
Normally the largest tank that will fit in a P38 wheelwell is a 90 litre, 4 hole, filled toroidal so it would be interesting to know what you actually have. I've not known any tank to not shut off with a clunk, I suppose how well soundproofed it is would make a difference to how loud it is. If they don't and the pump just slows down and stops, that normally is a sign that the level stop valve isn't working. Multi tank installations will often 'machine gun' when they are full as the valves will chatter as the pressure between tanks is equalising. I believe you have a Disco Brian and they are often fitted with twin tanks due to the lack of a wheelwell so that might explain why one of yours is noisy.
That tank should have a plate welded to it with the makers name, water capacity (the maximum that will fit in to fill it completely) and date of manufacture. There may be other information on the plate but the only other thing you would be expected to need to know is if it is a 0 or 30 degree tank as that will dictate what multivalve it requires.
Your correct in the Disco field, but that tank hasn't been filled up as yet. its the old underslung one on the Galaxy that machine guns. Its going with a big cylinder at the present time in the Disco as the sill tanks just didn't look like they'd have enough capacity. Though I think i should have gone a bit smaller than I did though as the 160 litre cylinder seems somewhat bigger now its in the boot!.
Ferryman wrote:
Don't know if has anything to do with it, but on older pumps there was a manometer that showed around 10 bar pressure on delivery.
Today with the digital numbers there is no pressuremeter present anymore, who says it still gives 10 bar pressure?
And does it vary from pump to pump?
It certainly varies, Still see alot of pumps that have the pressure gauge even the digital ones (theres not much else to notice when you stand there holding the fill button!)
Aragorn wrote:
Interesting!
I didnt really notice any clunking, the pump just seemed to stop, so perhaps there is some sort of issue with the tank?
Whats the purpose of stopping short?
I've had 3 cars on lpg (4th is having its kit fitted as time allows at the minute). One of them would make a single clunk when it was full, one barely makes an audible sound on most occasions, the other will make a noise that sounds somewhere like a brick in the washing machine on the spin cycle when it feels like it (usually the same pumps will cause that to happen, other times it will act perfectly normally)
The purpose of stopping short is to allow for expansion space - they are supposed to fill to 80% capacity, The angle of the tank (or the car) can have some effect on this. Your certificate says 95 litre tank, but can you see anything on the actual tank itself (could be wrong cert, tank may have been changed etc).
Its possible that the shut off float arm has been adjusted to allow more by someone previous to yourself.
And no the gauges aren't particularly good, though a new gauge with decent wiring and an adjustable ecu should allow you to set something meaningful up. Two of mine have worked, the 3rd one is a bit random (usually reads full, but sometimes will go right from the red to full over about 10 seconds). I'd replace the level sender if it wasn't corroded in place and ontop of an underslung tank so a pain to access.
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
Homemade rig chucked in the bin now. Only cost pennies. Video or the one I copied here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUUgR94drxg
Don't bother with a car battery. I just used a 9v square battery and it worked fine.
With manifold off, you can't see if an injector is leaking. You'll need to remove the whole fuel rail and injector assembly. Take each injector one by one and test. 2 of mine were letting fluid through before the battery was clicked on. I could even blow through them which means they were stuck open and leaking petrol in even when on lpg.
I really blasted the dodgy injectors with carb cleaner and let them sit for a few minutes. Then I clicked them on and off whilst spraying more cleaner through the rig. Got them freed off and they stopped letting fluid through when closed and I couldn't blow through anymore either. You'll see when it's clean cause it will spray through like a mist rather than like water through a shower head.
If you're doing it, check ohmage also. Should be 14.5 +/- 7 and you'll need a new seal kit. No point going all the way in and not changing them.
http://mrinjectoruk.co.uk/Bosch-0280155-0280156-injector-seal-kit-28-V8-P1501225.aspx
The kit includes new injector filters which i'm told most people don't bother with. However, I did but they're a pain in the arse to get out.
"I've fixed it" means I have indeed fixed it. (I hope) lol. I did coils, leads and spark plugs too. Reason being, I was on a mission to cure the fault so I just bought everything that it could possibly be. Didn't need the rest of the stuff as it turned out to be duff injectors but I fitted the rest of the gear anyway since i'd already bought it. Spark plugs had seen better days so i'm pleased I did them.
Hope some of that helps.
Some of it does yes thanks, I've had problems which I'd thought i'd fixed with crimping up the leads (which have only done about 2500 miles from the original replacement) which seemed to get rid of the problem for a few days, followed by the airflow sensor when problems returned (that was definitely faulty given the noticable difference on performance with a new Bosch one and the more normal fuel trims after swapping it) but the problem still persists of what feels a bit like a misfire around 2000 rpm once warmed up (fine when cold).
The manifold is coming off shortly to fit the lpg nozzles and do the wiring, so hopefully can look at that at the same time (or may discover the cause of the problem when already in there, as the car has been on lpg previously, some remenments of that install remained when i first got it, I think all of them are now gone though don't know what state any wiring repairs might be in for the original injector cuts)
I've ordered the seal kit already but hope it doesn't come to pulling the injectors out!
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
oil looks fresh that's all. Had CO tester on at MOT. No probs there.
On another note, I've just been cleaning the injectors on my homemade rig. I knew that I probably had one dodgy one and I do. It's sticking open and letting fluid through without being clicked on and off with the battery. No probs as I bought 1 spare injector. The bad news is, there's 2 dodgy injectors doing the same thing. doh!!!!! Any ideas on a repair or am I up the creek???????
**Never mind. I've fixed it.
I'm half wondering if i've got the same issue - your homemade rig if you still have it could you show a pic of it? I'm not sure if you can see the injectors once the top manifold is off to see if they are leaking or not.
Was I've fixed it meaning cleaning sorted it btw or something else?
Orangebean wrote:
Now that has to be the nastiest atrocity of a P38 that I've seen for a long time!
Funniest thing is that the bidding is up to £1500 already. There are some huge optimists out there.
Whats more surprising is that there were 9 different people mad enough to put a bid on it. Though of course its eBay, and nothings sold till the money changes hands!
super4 wrote:
Probably on the wrong topic but earlier this year I saw that Orangebean and Gilbertd were working on the same LPG problem/equipment that I have on my 98/99 P38 - ie Alisei N type Zavoli has same numbers on as your pic you published and after changing spark plugs and coil pack runs nicely on petrol but won't switch to gas. I think now that the poor running was the start of a gas problem. Since I am stuck in Spain a long way from people in UK who fitted the system do you think I should get a diagnostic lead interface and copy of the software for my Windows XP laptop ? Could you please point me in the right direction, pref cheap or free as not much money here!!
Only a few faults will stop it attempting to switch to gas - Solenoid coils will usually cause it to cut out on switching if they have failed, though not always. It could be a failing sensor (temp sensor being one), or a wire thats either broken off or been unplugged/not plugged in properly.
Diagnosics software can eliminate some of the guesswork on that score, so getting hold of a lead would be a good idea, though checking the connections would be a good first step as well. If you can get to both solenoid coils then checking their resistance on a multimeter won't do any harm, to get a meaningful reading you may find it easier to disconnect them first. At the same time inspect any of the wires running to the tank if you can just in case there is damage to the cable.
Orangebean wrote:
Here's what the early XYZ units look like, full of cr@p and opened up!
I can't imagine much contact cleaner will find its way into those microswitches if just squirted through the vent hole so think you were lucky there BrianH
It did get around half a can of it in there! Its been ok since, but i'm expecting it to play up again hence getting hold of a replacement
BrianH wrote:
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
BrianH wrote:
It might be worth a shot with some contact cleaner first - Mine decided to play up in such a way that the car wouldn't start, but seemed to show all gears except 3/2/1 (blank on those). Thats on a Disco 2 though so may behave slightly differently, though its the same switch as far as I can tell.
I took it off and sprayed it with contact cleaner down the hole that the wires go into (mostly as it was stuck in a place it couldn't stay in for long) and its been fine since, though i have got another switch since then just in case (as it prevented it starting).
Cheers, but for the tenner at the scrapyard, i'd rather be safe and go with the new one rather than take the old one off the car, open it up, potentially break something in the process and then be stuck with no car to get anywhere.
Not suggesting taking it apart - I've seen photos of the insides of them and that doesn't look like a good idea to me. Though if you can pick up one thats ok that cheaply it would be a good idea. IF it works!
This stuff or similar (any halfway decent factors or car parts store should have something similar)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CarPlan-WBS400-Bright-Spark-400ml/dp/B00499DFP0/
Mine started playing up on starting - it wouldn't crank, suspected it was either the starter motor beginning to die or the alarm playing up. Till it decided to not start at all at 9pm on the Friday before the last bank holiday weekend. Once it decided to do it consistantly it was much easier to troubleshoot!.
Getting the spare one wouldn't be a bad idea either way though.
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
BrianH wrote:
It might be worth a shot with some contact cleaner first - Mine decided to play up in such a way that the car wouldn't start, but seemed to show all gears except 3/2/1 (blank on those). Thats on a Disco 2 though so may behave slightly differently, though its the same switch as far as I can tell.
I took it off and sprayed it with contact cleaner down the hole that the wires go into (mostly as it was stuck in a place it couldn't stay in for long) and its been fine since, though i have got another switch since then just in case (as it prevented it starting).
Cheers, but for the tenner at the scrapyard, i'd rather be safe and go with the new one rather than take the old one off the car, open it up, potentially break something in the process and then be stuck with no car to get anywhere.
Not suggesting taking it apart - I've seen photos of the insides of them and that doesn't look like a good idea to me. Though if you can pick up one thats ok that cheaply it would be a good idea. IF it works!
It might be worth a shot with some contact cleaner first - Mine decided to play up in such a way that the car wouldn't start, but seemed to show all gears except 3/2/1 (blank on those). Thats on a Disco 2 though so may behave slightly differently, though its the same switch as far as I can tell.
I took it off and sprayed it with contact cleaner down the hole that the wires go into (mostly as it was stuck in a place it couldn't stay in for long) and its been fine since, though i have got another switch since then just in case (as it prevented it starting).
Orangebean wrote:
I'm scratching my head trying to make sense of this, so, thinking out loud, just talking engine ECM for now...
As measured temperature goes up, resistance and voltage drop. As voltage "seen" by ECm is lower then ECM will give a diagnostics temperature as higher than actual. Schoolboy maths on the ratios between "is" volts and "should be" volts comes back with the sort of diagnostics temps that I've been getting.
Time to take the bloody sensor out I think. I'll check resistance of cables, but as there are errors on both sides (BECM and ECM) and the two sides of the sensor have their own separate earths it has to be the sensor. Doesn't explain why the temp gauge is under-reading, but if one thermistor is the wrong value, then it's possible the other is too.
Have to let the thing cool down before I can pull the alternator. Boy this car's hard work...
If your chasing air locks its possible you might have air stuck round where the sensor sits? So taking it out might help bleeding the air out anyway?
Gilbertd wrote:
BrianH wrote:
N22 is quite nice compared to some other parts of London - Harlesden or Thornton Heath for example!
N22 is Harlesden which is why I said that one but I agree on Thornton Heath, and quite a few other areas that are just as bad......
Looks more like Wood Green? Nw10 is Harlesden. Though neither is recommended!
N22 is quite nice compared to some other parts of London - Harlesden or Thornton Heath for example!