The tank tapers at the front so with the front lowered there's plenty of space between the top of the tank and the underside if the car. I did the fuel lines on the SE I used to have (return line had rusted through) with the EAS on high and a jack under the towbar to stop it lowering. Filler hose is just a big thick hose with a hose clip but like any hose that has been in place for 20 years, it'll have stuck but once freed off comes off easily enough.

If you've not got the GEMS licence it doesn't matter for this purpose. When you switch it on, you select P38, then GEMS so it is set to talk to a GEMS car. It won't connect to the engine but it will connect to all the other systems and it will only show systems that a GEMS will have. With ignition off, go to BeCM, Utilities, type the EKA into the box and hit the button. It will think about it for a couple of seconds then the other doors should unlock (unless both front doors are already unlocked), you'll get a message to say the code has been sent and it will be possible to start it. You can check the microswitches from the BeCM, Inputs page but from the fact that he can enter the EKA sometimes suggests that either the CDL switch or the keyswitch is intermittent so it may appear to be working when you check it but won't work all the time.

5W-40? A bit thin, I run 10W-60 in mine.......

Yes it is, it resets everything so when you subsequently lock with the key it will allow you to unlock, and turn off the immobiliser, with the key.

A couple of further thoughts on Frank's problem. As pressing a button on the fob while the BeCM is asleep, doesn't wake it up means the receiver isn't passing any information to the BeCM. That could be because the fob isn't transmitting a signal or the receiver isn't receiving one. I've sent Frank a known good receiver to try but I would suspect, as the fob is held together with a tie wrap, that someone has already been in there to try to fix it and it isn't transmitting. I did wonder if the fob had been taken apart and the key blade fitted into a random fob from a different car. That wouldn't sync as the lockset bar code programmed into it would be for a different car and not match the lockset bar code programmed into the BeCM. But, if that was the case, it would still transmit a signal, which would still be received by the receiver so would still wake up the BeCM. You can wake up the BeCM with the fob from a completely different make of car or virtually any other 433 MHz low power device (which is what causes the battery going flat due to RF interference problem). So, it is still a toss up between a duff receiver or no transmission from the fob. If the former, trying my spare receiver should make it work, if the latter then the fob can be sent away and repaired.

Just been outside and tried it with mine to be absolutely sure my recollection was correct. My car and Frank's are both 98 models so should have identical firmware and react the same.

My car had been locked with the fob, so I unlocked it with the key.
Only the drivers door unlocked and when I tried to start it I got the Engine Immobilised, Press Remote or Enter Keycode message.
So I entered the EKA using the key in the door latch. All doors unlocked and I was able to start the car.
Switched it off and locked it with the key. Waited for the alarm LED to stop flashing quickly so it had set itself and unlocked it with the key, same thing, only the drivers door unlocked and when I tried to start it found that it was immobilised.
This time, instead of entering the EKA using the key in the door, I plugged the Nanocom in and entered it with that. That unlocked all the doors and allowed me to start the car.
Switched it off again and locked it with the key. Waited for the alarm to set itself and unlocked it with the key. This time, all doors unlocked and the immobiliser was turned off so I could start it without having to enter the EKA again either with the key or the Nanocom.

So that is what the Nano can do that the key can't. It will always remain in a state that it was in originally, locked with the fob but unlocked with the key so will need the EKA. Once the EKA has been entered directly from the Nanocom it resets everything so the next time it was locked with the key it remembers it was locked with the key so can be unlocked with the key and won't ask for the EKA.

Turning off Passive Immobilisation is a bonus so it won't need to be locked and unlocked with the key if it isn't started within 30 seconds of unlocking it.

Morat wrote:

Fair enough, I've never done it on a P38. But I bet those bolts aren't going to be just spinning out!

I've dropped a tank twice and both times the bolts/nuts have come undone without any problem. They are big (17 or 19mm) so not fiddly little things that are going to round off as soon as you put any grunt on them. RAVE tells you to disconnect the filler neck but you only need to do that if you are taking the tank right out, no need if you are just lowering it down to get to the pump..

Dropping the tank isn't difficult, 5 bolts (or 2 bolts and 3 nuts if you want to be pedantic) and a trolley jack. A lot safer than cutting holes in the bodywork next to a plastic tank full of petrol.

You are quite welcome to try my spare receiver although I suspect your fob isn't transmitting a signal even though the LED is lighting. The fact that it is held together with a tie wrap means someone has had a go at it before. I'm about to reply to your PM anyway.

Do you have power on the White/Blue wire from the inertia switch? That's the wire going from there to the fuel pump so you could jumper 12V directly to there. Is the pump drawing any current? Sometimes you can hear it but not always.

Cut a hole in the floor? On a Vogue 50? What next, go faster stripes on the H&H? If you are going to do it, do it properly and drop the tank.

It's just a DC pulse, not RF at all. On my car I don't think the coil was removed rather it was never there in the first place as it appears to have been a base model when it came from the production line and went to LR Special Vehicles to be finished. It has the base model manual cloth seats (but with seat heaters), it has no cruise control, didn't have a trip computer (although it does now), it was supplied with no radio and the base spec speaker system (no mid range in the doors, only the 6.5 inch speaker), no wood on the door panels (although again I have swapped the door panels for ones with wood and mid range speakers), the 16x7 inch wheels on 235/70x16 tyres as fitted to a base model diesel and not the 8 inch wide ones on virtually every other car. But it then had the split climate control (rather than the manual system that a base model would have), the front fog lights, the headlamp wash/wipe and other 'useful' options added at Special Vehicles.

Anyway, we are deviating from the topic at hand, Frank's problem, so lets keep it back on track.

davew wrote:

Ok, that is all in LR-speak but it seems to be saying that you (ok, Frank...) has to insert the key into the ignition (which is recognised via RFID), and then the fob sends the RF signal to the BeCM via the receiver etc etc to remove the "Disabled" condition (?).

My main question then is if the key is not first recognised via the RFID/coil system, will (just) pressing the fob button be the same ?
Or, and repeating this in another way, will the BeCM wake up (and also remove immobilsation) if the key is not actually in the ignition ?

In a word, yes. If passive immobilisation has kicked in (due to the delay between unlocking the car and starting the engine), then another press of the unlock button on the fob turns the immobilisation off. The key doesn't need to be anywhere near the ignition at all, it can be anywhere as long as it is in range so the receiver picks up the signal. My car, despite being a 98 but being built to a custom spec for plod, doesn't have the coil and until I turned off passive immobilisation, I got into the habit of pressing unlock before I put the key in the ignition just in case I'd left it too long before trying to start it. This is what has to be done on every early car without the coil, hence the message "Engine Immobilised, Press Remote or Enter Code".

I'll say it again, RFID is NOT used at all. It is the magnetic field generated by the coil. If you read what the document you quoted says, it is quite clear. The key is not recognised at all, as soon as you put the key in the ignition, the switch in the base of the lock (the same one that when it sticks will tell you the key is inserted when it isn't) tells the BeCM you have put the key in. That causes a pulse to be sent to the coil and the magnetic field generated by the coil causes the fob to transmit. This is the automated version of pressing the fob button, generating a coded radio signal that is received by the receiver, passed through to the BeCM and used to turn off the immobiliser as long as the fob and the BeCM are in sync.

Not really, I can just read detached contact diagrams and look it up......

No dave, the only confusion here is being added by you. Syncing the fob is done using the key in the door on all model years. If you had read the ETM for a 99 model, you would see that this is the case and RFID is NOT used and the coil is there to turn off passive immobilisation as I described earlier. The only difference between pre and post 97 model cars is that not all of the early cars had the coil fitted.

See the relevant ETM page

What did I do today? Took it out, drove it around and took a picture of another milestone on the odometer (and yes, that is miles.....). If I'd have filled up with LPG at 388800.0 and not at 388799.9, I'd even have had the trip meter showing all the 8s too.

Grey/White and Grey/Green, 12V one way round sends it up, the other way round sends it down.

In that case either the fob isn't transmitting or the receiver isn't receiving a signal from it. I've got a known good receiver I can send you to try if you think it might help.

Had a look at your VIN and the S reg is correct. Haven't checked it on Microcat yet (as the laptop with it on is also loaded with my sat nav update software and I lent it to my daughter) but from the serial number it is a 98 model car and the number would put it towards the end of production for a 98. My car is an early production 98 model and was built in November 97 but not registered until March 1998. Model year production started around October the previous year so I would suspect yours was built around September 98. So it has a registration number relevant to the year as S reg runs from 1st August 1998 until 28 Feb 1999.

Frank, so it sounds like the S reg plate that is on it is a personal plate that someone has put on it and not the original. If you want to PM me the VIN, I can put it into Microcat which should give the registration number it was first registered with.

But, that still doesn't help you with getting the fob to work so you no longer have to use the EKA. The method of syncing the fob in the door lock works on all cars right up to the end of production, the later cars don't sync the fob it merely turns off passive immobilisation automatically. If the fob batteries have been changed then it will need to be synced. It uses a rolling code so will have lost sync when the old batteries were removed. First you need to check if the fob is transmitting and if the receiver is receiving. Sit in the car somewhere dark and look at the LED next to the gear lever, it will be glowing dimly. Wait 2 minutes and it will go out completely, signifying that the BeCM has gone to sleep. While watching the LED next to the gear lever, press a button on the fob. If the LED doesn't come back on dimly, the receiver is not getting the signal from the fob either because it isn't transmitting anything or the receiver isn't receiving it (but, as you've already replaced it, it is unlikely you've suffered 2 faulty ones).

If the LED comes back on dimly, then the fob is transmitting a code, the receiver is receiving it, it is just that the code is wrong. Now it may be that it is wrong because the two components have lost sync, in which case they need to be synced, or, someone has swapped the fob (and probably locks) for one from a different car. In which case it won't be possible to sync as the code in the fob doesn't match the code programmed into the BeCM. If the latter, then it is possible to change the lockset bar code programmed into the BeCM but that can only be done by a specialist such as Marty (and possibly Sloth?) who would need the fob (to read the fob code) and the BeCM (to programme with the correct code).

However, with a 99 car, then it definitely will be possible to enter the EKA with a Nanocom and, hopefully, once it has been entered, you won't need to enter it every time if you lock with the key. However, be cautious, the fact that it doesn't always take the EKA suggests that the microswitches in the latch are starting to get worn so don't always respond as they should so it could still leave you locked out one day.

davew wrote:

(And I am sure it must be mentioned elsewhere but I do wish LR had written that "passive immobilisation" is simply
just a fancy name for having an RF pick-up coil aroud the ignition barrel..... ie 'passive' is basically a misnomer too !

But it isn't. It is passive in as much as the immobiliser kicks in if you unlock the door but don't start the engine within a set time so it is passive as it doesn't require any input from the driver, it is merely timed. There's a number of ways the locking and immobilisation works.

If you unlock the car on the fob, the immobiliser is turned off and the doors unlocked but if you don't open a door within 30 seconds, the car will lock itself again and set the immobiliser. It assumes you pressed the button by accident and this prevents you unlocking the car with your key in your pocket and walking away leaving it unlocked.

If you unlock the car with the fob, open a door but don't start the engine within 30 seconds, one of two things will happen. If passive immobilisation is enabled on an early car, the immobiliser kicks in after 30 seconds and when you do eventually try to start the car the dash will display Press Remote or Enter Code. At this point you need to either press the unlock button on the fob again or enter the EKA code to turn the immobiliser off before it will let you start the car (there is a third option which is to get out of the car, close the doors, lock it with the fob, unlock it again with the fob and start it within 30 seconds).

On the later cars when you turn the ignition on, the coil around the ignition sends a magnetic pulse which is picked up by the large surface mount Inductor on the end of the fob PCB which causes the fob to automatically transmit the unlock code. This is picked up by the receiver mounted under the RH rear parcel shelf just the same as when you unlocked it. So it isn't an RF pick-up coil at all, it is there purely to generate a magnetic field. You can see it operate as the LED on the fob will flash when you turn the key in the ignition.

If passive immobilisation is turned off in the BeCM, then you can unlock the car and as long as you open a door within 30 seconds, it doesn't matter how long you wait before trying to start the car, the immobiliser was turned off when you unlocked it and it doesn't turn back on. In that case, you will never get the Press Remote of Enter Code message on an early car and the fob will not transmit when in the ignition on a later one.

I wouldn't believe that guide, both methods are wrong. The first method is a little more complicated than that and the second method does not synchronise an out of sync fob, it is merely the normal operation if passive immobilisation is enabled. It stops you being asked to press Unlock or enter the EKA if you unlocked the car but didn't start it immediately so the passive immobilisation kicked in and immobilised it again.

I'd rather do heater O rings any day compared with exhaust manifold gaskets. On a RHD, the very back bolt on the RH manifold is a real pain to get to so I would assume the LH one is similar for you.