I've gutted lots of cats over the last few years, usually let my mates at the local tyre and exhaust place remove and refit the the cat section of exhaust, I do all the cutting gutting and welding leaving the guts in a bag for them.

I would instinctively think not necessary too, and such threats probably wouldn't worry me much if I was threatened, but this sort of situation seems to be becoming increasingly common on forums.

I once helped a few people on a Subaru Legacy forum who all had the same problem (never ran properly) with BRC systems fitted over 6 months despite many trips back to the installer, other BRC installers and Pete the BRC tech guy. At the time the forum users thanked me for my help but at the end I did a bit of summing up which one guy took exception to.. I implied that it couldn't reflect well on the installer or other BRC people that the owners had had to put up with BRC systems fitted so long that never ran properly and that the problem would be due to a combination of tech that wasn't really suited to the vehicle, how the tech was fitted and those involved's misunderstandings about what was going wrong and what would be necessary to sort the problems. I said that I could sort all the problems for £X by fitting spuds in the correct location with short pipe runs and fitting a different (none BRC) ECU and that if my fix didn't work first time round I wouldn't even charge for the repair. The guy who took exception said he was very happy with the service he'd received from his installer, other BRC installers and BRC tech's support guy Pete even though his car still didn't run properly, he tried painting a picture in which the BRC installers and tech support guy had somehow suffered bad luck but persisted with helping him with his problem. I painted a different picture in which I said I wouldn't expect any customer of mine to be happy in the same situation and in which the other guys didn't quite know their job well enough. He then threatened the forum and admin deleted the whole thread.

There's also a lot of bias on forums, particularly Toyota/Lexus forums, a certain done in a day installer in Wales seems to have just about all admins on forums about those vehicle marques in their pocket. They pay to sponsor one or two forums and then the admins are mates with admins on similar forums, all those admins prevent (on pain of a ban) any installer except the Welsh installer posting on forum (not that the Welsh firm ever do post) and even prevent forum members posting anything negative about them or doubting anything the installer says or does (again on pain of a ban). I've converted a lot of imported Nissans recently but getting into converting similar Toyota/Lexus vehicles through such forums is a problem because I'm not even allowed to discuss LPG on such forums. In an early post on one such forum I mentioned the Jap vehicles should have valve lube systems fitted but this didn't agree with what the Welsh installer said and admin deleted my post and threatened me with a ban.. which I eventually got. Lubes are still discussed on the same forum but admin says they're not necessary, I have customers who go on such forums who know they are necessary but don't dare contradict their forum admin because they'd end up getting a ban so there's lots of BS talked about lubes can't be necessary because LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol so valves can't get as hot as running on petrol so will last longer running on LPG lol. I suspect some admins get a free conversion or a big discount if they agree to keep plugging the Welsh firm.

Making users and posts anonymous would prevent any member saying "I wrote that 5 years ago but last year I became a paranoid recluse and don't want anything to identify me on the internet or I will sue" lol. Maybe more worrying for the owner of a site such as LPGforum is that there will be plenty mentions of firms etc in posts,the forum I linked to above just had it's first legal threat from a vehicle import firm after someone left a bad review claiming a vehicle they'd paid a deposit on and went to buy had been clocked. Someone suggested that the site could cover it's own back by adding a disclaimer to every post to the effect 'the views expressed by users are not necessarily the views of this forum', I don't know if that would prevent any legal comebacks and the owner didn't do that, instead he just deleted the content but at least he said he'd allow criticisms of firms and reviews if the critic substantiated points made with proof. The reviewed firm has had positive reviews on the same forum before and has no doubt gained some work from that, so if I were in the site owner's position I might have told them that if I was going to delete negative posts I'd also delete positive posts and any mention of them, either that or they could argue their side of the story on forum and drop the legal threats.

I'll offer my son's services to anyone who takes it over to help it meet legislation and switch platforms etc lol... It's OK I've asked him!
Someone like Richard probably wouldn't need the help though.

BrianH wrote:

Also Simon - Unless we have registered on there and posted 10 topics, or pay them £3 we can't read the post you linked to?

Bugger I forgot about that Bri! On ElgrandOC forum someone said they'd already tried personally contacting Morrisons and Asda to try to get them to increase number of filling stations selling LPG, they asked me if I could get some sort of petition going on 'That forum you go on Simon' (LPGforum). I originally said no because it'd never work as a thread but then thought Damian might be willing to send a PM to every member - for most of LPGForum's 6077 users old and new (of which I know a lot will no longer be interested) this would mean they'd get an emailed alert about the petition. Might be the last chance we get to even try to approach so many people who might be interested.

That would be great.

Kind of off subject - I just sent this email [below] to Damian (for benefit of others Damian is the LPGforum owner). Long shot but Richard would certainly be worth getting involved with this if LPG users are to give it a go.

Hi Damian,

Before LPGforum closes (if it does close), would it be possible to send a PM to all users to inform them about a petition to fuel retailers that will hopefully steer them to sell LPG at more sites than currently? Someone suggested this to me on another forum and I have just started an email address lpgpetition@yahoo.com for this purpose. I haven't yet come up with a format that people should use when sending an email but on the other forum I suggested the format should include name, town, wording to the effect they want to join the petition, something about having to drive X miles to buy fuel, if they are aware of others in the same situation.

Due to this https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/lpg-forum.9598/#post-98324 (see last few posts).

Just to let everyone know...

It's doubtful I'll be taking over LPGForum. Damian has said he's had a few offers besides my offer and would rather not let it go to someone with commercial interests... which I can fully understand and agree with.

I'd rather not be involved really because involvement would come with claims of biasing the forum to favour myself, so I'd be shooting myself in at least one foot by taking it on even if I was only paying bills and letting others do all the moderation etc. But rather that than see it and all it's content disappear... I have a vested interest in LPGforum continuing due to the content I and my customers have put on, if nobody else is going to save it and I have a chance to but don't I'd be shooting myself in both feet!

It may end up going to nobody because Damian has concerns about his responsibilities with new data laws and hints at thinking he could get in trouble for passing it on as it is, he's hardly likely to get involved with making changes himself before passing it on. If I were involved (and part of my reasoning for my offer to Damian) I would get my son involved to sort the forum out, he's well placed to do that.

The best outcome from my point of view (and perhaps from most LPG users point of view) would be if someone else took it on who doesn't have any commercial interests (other than perhaps advertising none LPG stuff), someone who allows as much free speech as Damian would be good..

Years ago one of my mates did a carpentry course, the teacher was using a circular or band saw to cut sheets of wood whilst giving a bit of a talk on it. Must have been distracted because whilst talking he fed the wood in a bit far and cut about an inch into the bit between his thumb and finger but didn't even notice until the youths said 'Errr your thumb mate', then he nearly fainted. Apparently that was a good lesson lol.

Had a look at the link in your PM, yeh I might register with the scrap vehicle auction site and bid on the Elgrand you linked to.

I had another crack at this before I went away, still failed but nearly got there!

Cut the concentric pipes at the same point, tapped the inner pipe, made a grub screw to fit and screwed it in until it's head was about 7mm inside, filled the inner pipe above the grub with braze, cut open a piece of aluminium pipe, knocked it flat, cut a circular disk from it to fit not quite to the edges of the outer pipe, held the pipe with cut end up and placed the disk in the middle before brazing it on.

If I hadn't overheated and slightly melted the top of the outer pipe in the process I reckon this would have worked. But it's not gonna work now because with a blown engine there's nothing to turn the compressor lol.

I once hired the biggest trailer Swillington Trailer Hire had and pulled a BMW750 back from Paignton Devon using a Volvo V70... I'd expect the ML with same trailer and Elgrand on top (Elgrand about 2000kg) to be a far better match than that even though the ML is a ML320 7 seater and likely to have towing capacity at the lower end of those mentioned. Pretty sure the trailer hire boss would let me take it for this purpose and I'd manage it OK. Was a bit of an adventure collecting the BMW750 from Paignton, I blindly followed satnav which took me down single track roads with double hairpins and even a little river ford in the early hours... Had to get out the car, socks and shoes off, wade into the water to check depth and grip, then at the other side of the ford a long wet steep hill with the V70 front wheels scrabbling for grip all the way up... and this was before I'd got the 750 on the trailer. For the return trip I made sure I came back on major roads and still stopped at Exeter services to shift the 750 on the trailer for better weight balance.

I get RAC through my bank but as said above RAC won't cover the caravan.. and even if they did they'd know I haven't shifted the car since my last dealings with them. Haven't asked around to see who has personal AA cover yet, son might have but he's just started his new job and probably wouldn't want to nip down to Cornwall. Don't mind waiting a couple of weeks before collecting the car and/or caravan, if there's a scheme like AA or Green Flag that becomes valid within a couple of weeks (of signing up) and covers the caravan I might as well just make myself a member? Might leave the caravan in Newquay longer than the car even if cover would get it back but would still want that sort of cover in case similar happens again.

If I use a recovery service then whatever else I decide I need to get back down in another car with another driver, or if recovery man knows I have 2 cars there he'll know I couldn't have driven both cars down, son and stepson aren't insured to drive the ML or Elgrand and don't really look old enough to be. So I should go back down with one of them in one of their cars.. but then if I get down there and a recovery firm refuse to shift anything I won't even be able to pull the caravan back. Wonder what questions might be asked and if RAC / Greenflag / AA share info?

Didn't get chance to get online yesterday, came home in the hire car and had all the packing to do before setting off.

Thanks for replies and for even contemplating this, especially to Gilbert for 'If I get stuck'.

Been suggested that I join Green Flag, go back to Newquay in another car (maybe the ML), tell them my Elgrand just broke and I'd like the Elgrand and caravan shifting to South Elmsall please! Thoughts on this or the same with AA? Bit naughty though....

Not a P38 but there may be P38 owners who could profit out of this at my expense!

While using my Nissan Elgrand to tow my large caravan from near Doncaster Yorkshire to Newquay Cornwall I felt a drop in engine power coming up a hill on the A30 20 miles from Newquay. I immediately suspected the very common (to Elgrand) blocked cat problem - there are 4 cats in total, two at each side of the V6, the front cats break up and clog the entrance to the rear cats, the usual preventative measure is to decore the rear cats which I've done for plenty of customers but not on my own Elgrand!. I pulled into a layby and checked things over... oil clean, had a few codes pointing to cam sensors, pulled the cam sensors and cleaned them up, phoned the 'Elgrand guru' who still reckoned it'd only be a cam sensor (which I doubted). Connected LPG software and found bank 1 was running with 30% less fuelling than bank 2 so I suspected the problem would mostly be affecting bank 1 (since both lambda's flicked and since bank 1 therefore was pulling 30% less air than bank 2). Tried driving again but the problem remained. Stopped in another layby and called the RAC out, like the guru the RAC man also doubted it'd be blocked cats, he also advised me that only my car was covered so if I wanted recovering they'd have to call in one of their subcontractors who would shift the caravan to Newquay for me for £500! I insisted we did something about the cats so he loaned me a hammer and chissel and I knocked a hole in the downpipe on bank 1 before the rear cats... found it full of cat debris. Knocked another large hole further up the exhaust. Set off again and the car pulled much better, RAC man (who had been following) left me to it but another 2 miles down the road and the problem recurred only this time with overheating and the oil was black. Called RAC man again, another bloke came out, this bloke gave me the number to his mates garage who recovered the car and caravan to Newquay for £150+VAT and got me onto the camp site. Next day I borrowed step son-in-laws car to go into town and buy some tools and oil from Halfrauds, I disconnected bank 2's second cat and tried driving the car very noisily up a steep hill away from the campsite. Made it 100 yards and the engine seized! Reverse rolled all the way back to the camp site.

Hired a Zafira which I can drop off in Doncaster so this will get us home but not the caravan (no towbar) and not the Elgrand. Plan now is that I'll have to hire a car trailer to come back for the Elgrand with my Merc ML and then come back again in the ML for the caravan. I can store both the caravan and car here for £20 per week and may try to arrange things so we get a few days 'holiday' each trip, but that's 2 x 700 mile round trips and potential time out from work I haven't arranged things around.

I wonder if any capable vehicle (i.e. P38) owners would like to make a few bob by shifting my Elgrand from Newquay to South Elmsall W.Yorks? Timescale - Well, plan A is that I come back for the Elgrand first leaving the caravan here the longest so I can get 2 extra 'holidays' out of it rather than just the 1 if I pick the caravan up first. This may change if I arrange for someone else to shift the Elgrand (could maybe get both at the same time). I can leave both here until November but don't want to leave either here that long and would suit me better if I get the Elgrand back first so I can drop another engine in it if only I wasn't so busy at work. I'm fairly tied up at work until September and it may take me that long to source another engine anyway.

While on the subject, if you need to drill through deeply lacquered wood it pays to be careful, the lacquer can crack.

Varnish = lacquer?

I wouldn't want LPGforum's continued existence to be a negative for this forum but don't see how it would.
A wide range of vehicles and LPG systems are discussed on LPGforum, it's probably unlikely that someone with a different make vehicle would Google 'LPG problem' and click on a link that contained 'RangeRover / P38' wording. It would be good to bring LPGforum clicks/posts back up to old levels - before it became very difficult for people to become members.

Only kidding mate... The moment you realise the 'engine problem' sound is coming from the speakers lol.

I'll be up for getting involved and taking it on if possible, I'm in Cornwall on holiday at the moment but will look into it on my return. If I did, who'd be up for being a moderator?

Hello Police I just heard gunshots. Ahh no it's OK my mate said it was just on the telly lol...

Watched the vid but speakers on this laptop are crap and my hearing isn't great these days (DJing ear abuse now taking it's toll!).. Couldn't hear much at all so nothing to add except does it still do it running on petrol? I think I mentioned LPG reducers can hum earlier on thread.

Enjoyed reading this, it almost puts a James Bond slant on diagnostics! Always been interested in radio but never been into it at anything like your level. I usually expect to see spectrum analysers in cars right next to the graphic equaliser ;-)

I believe that boilers that use a wireless link to thermostat usually have a wired thermostat option too. But then whether you chose to fit a wired stat or work on the car instead would depend on whether a wired stat would disable the bursts, necessary wiring route, cost of stat and wiring, whether you'd rather work on the car or boiler, if you think it better to upgrade the car's electronics so the same won't happen outside other houses.

Wireless stat here too but never had a problem with P38s in the yard - different frequency?