Latest on this on LPGforum..

OnTheFenceDev posted
'Just to let you guys know that I also contacted Damian about taking on the hosting, maintenance and support of the forum - it certainly is too good a resource to let it die.

My primary connection with the world of LPG is that I developed the FillLPG Android application (not the website, just the app) - and am currently planning a new release which will include an iOS version.

Anyway - I'm not an installer, but I am an IT professional so I'm willing and able to take the site on from a technical standpoint. What I would not be able to do is moderate the site - I have neither the time nor the insight to do so.

The offer is there but if someone else is better suited to take it on then I'm happy to stand back'.

I keep getting calls from claims companies who'd have me claim the fees I've paid Barclays for this 'enhanced' or whatever account. I've never used their travel insurance or mobile phone insurance but I have used the RAC a few times. I haven't taken any claims firms up on it because I went into the agreement with eyes open, I;m not a 'claims culture' type person anyway, and I did wonder if Barclays might close my account (which I use a lot for business) if I claimed which would be quite a hassle... But if I find there was small print which said the RAC cover was limited I might take them up on it. The first RAC guy was OK, we didn't fall out or anything but I got the full impression he didn't really believe the problems with the car and would in any case rather fob me off so he could get onto another job. He also told me we were on the top of Bodmin Moor so it was all downhill to Newquay when actually there were still the steepest hills to go up. If we'd gone with my suggestion in the first place or if it really was all downhill from there to Newquay my engine probably wouldn't be shafted now... but I know there are different ways of looking at it.

That's interesting Bri, I'll look into this thanks but I suspect you're right again on it being due to being covered through the bank.

Very easy access now, it's only when it gets overgrown that access gets bad but I generally cut it back every year using a petrol brush cutter. This year just after I'd cut it back a council hedge-trimmer tractor came past cutting hedges along Mill Lane, I flagged him down and asked if he'd come down the drive and cut the spruce way back if I paid him, he cut the trees, spruce and everything really way back. Every year I have around half a dozen large American RV's, half a dozen vehicle transporters and a few limos come down and this year it's been particularly easy for them. Just done a Hummer limo that had more ground clearance than most limo's but 'normal' limos don't have a problem either.

Yeh was more fun than that Bri.
It arrived 11pm last night.

A very easy way to get perfect atomisation, new injectors better emissions, lower running costs and easy fuel mapping is to convert to LPG ;-)
If you really want more power, realistically you're looking at changing engine hardware parts and have to bear in mind that engine power mods usually involve compromises i.e. more power at the top end at the expense of torque at the bottom end.

Been back down Cornwall and the Elgrand got loaded on an AA recovery truck yesterday. It can take 48 hours for an unaccompanied vehicle to get home, I'm back home but the Elgrand isn't here yet. No rush, I still don't have an engine to put in it.

As Gilbertd implied, if your ECU is old enough to be not fully sequential then switching one channel (would expect cyl 1 or cyl 5 in LPG software) back to petrol has the potential to switch the whole bank back to petrol... It shouldn't happen but can happen and is more likely to happen when a recent version of software is used with an older ECU, the ECU may not properly support all the features the software seems to offer. For similar reasons it can happen if 'anticipate the injection sequence' is ticked in software Could also potentially happen if the engine is already struggling to idle properly on one bank and you switch a cylinder back to petrol on the other bank if on the other bank the injection sequence has incorrect routing (i.e. LPG injector channel numbers don't match petrol injector channel numbers) such as when an installer has hard wired an injection sequence advance.

I did miss the fact it's a Disco 1, and as you've said this will mean it runs batch fired injectors.
This will mean the installer is less likely to have hard-wired an injection sequence advance if they did correctly set injection type as group in software / but it they incorrectly set injection type as sequential they might still have tried it. Most of the other aspects I mentioned above are still relevant with the engine being batch fired, in fact type of injectors fitted is more critical on a batch fired engine because of the shorter (but twice as often) injection pulses , also affects the shape of the map (usually a greater difference in multiplier between idle and high loads).

On the older AEB systems it's usually possible to get good results setting sequential injection type when the engine runs group injection - when the rpm wire is used some of the old AEB LPG ECUs just read the total pulse time of the front petrol injector on each cylinder bank between X ignition pulses and then they will actually drive all the LPG injectors sequentially (just spaces each cylinder dose of fuel according to rpm) even on a group petrol injection engine. It shouldn't be set like that really but good results can be had... it means LPG injectors last longer (only doing half as many pulses) and don't have to be as quick to open/close than if the correct (group) setting is used (can get away with less decent injectors - which is why some installers found that setting sequential on a group engine got better results than setting group). Setting sequential on a group engine still opens up all the ways that the installer might play around with injection sequence such as hard-wiring an injection sequence advance.

If it's always been OK and now it isn't then it won't be calibration that's the problem unless the ECU has forgotten calibration settings (by which point the ECU is more or less broken really), it will be due to a hardware problem with either the LPG system or the vehicle (lambdas usually).

You probably shouldn't be at the point of attempting to calibrate yet but If you do try to calibrate....

If it's Etagas it will take forever to calibrate unless you drive it to keep rpms within the certain ranges until all the range boxes are learned. It would be no good trying to hold rpms in the range boxes while not driving as there wouldn't be enough engine load and all the learning/autocal done would be wrong.

Since you say you have the ability to switch individual cylinders back to petrol it would seem you have a sequential system.

If you have a sequential system don't try to get ginj = pinj, do try to get pinj to remain close to unchanged when you switch between fuels.

It doesn't much matter on a P38 if ginj is 1.2 or 1.5 or even 0.8 x pinj at idle. The at idle multiplier should depend on spec of components fitted and pressure settings... If you have Matrix injectors I might expect multiplier of 1.1 at idle falling to 1 at flat out loads, if you have some of the worst performing Tartarini injectors fitted I might expect mutliplier of 1.2 at idle to 1 at high loads, these figures are only so close (1.1 / 1.2) because the P38 idles with 4ms pinj anyway (and 4 x 1.2 = 4.8 which is an easy minimum pulse duration for nearly any LPG injector). But really, knowing how half of P38s were/are setup by installers of the day I might expect anything between 0.7 and 1.7... but it should still work OK.

You should never see ginj remain the same multiple of pinj across the load range, ginj should become a lower multiple of pinj as load increases (at anything much above low loads at least) and for best results from any components you have fitted ginj should be close to pinj at high loads when at the same time mixture at high loads is correct. Or calibration is wrong, or you have a pressure sensor problem.

Popping from the exhaust could have various causes including implications from an overall too lean or too rich mixture or a dodgy ignition system, but if you only get popping from the exhaust when you switch a specific cylinder back to petrol it could be that your gas injector plugs are on the wrong gas injectors... and in that case they might even have been put on the wrong injectors intentionally by an installer who was trying to hardwire an 'advanced injection sequence' (on something as simple as a P38 this would usually have been because they'd fitted a setup with incorrect combination of nozzle size and pressure).

@Dhadara, what did you calibrate to .45? The best way to see how well an engine is running on a certain fuel is to check inlet manifold vacuum readings at the same time as ensuring lambda is correct, a happy engine will draw more vacuum, there shouldn't be any difference between petrol vacuum and LPG vacuum. You can get more vacuum with a rich mixture but remember we covered correct mixture with lambda and we're looking for most vacuum with correct mixture.

I did register with the auction site in the PM but it eventually sold for too much really. Would have been well worth it as a repairable Elgrand or maybe even just for parts if I were to dismantle it and sell parts but I don't have the time... I might just buy an engine to fit in mine and let someone else profit from dismantling while I'm doing LPG stuff.

Became a member of AA with all the bells and whistles today. Clarified that they'll pick up a vehicle and deliver to where I say in the event I'm on holiday with the caravan and don't want to come home with the vehicle lol... £14 a month and can cancel with a months notice ;-) Plan is to nip to Cornwall on Wednesday and have a bit of a break in the caravan for a few days, will probably leave the caravan there when I come home and nip down again before the end of summer... but the Elgrand will be home soon lol.

@Giilbertd Did you hear from Richard?

I've gutted lots of cats over the last few years, usually let my mates at the local tyre and exhaust place remove and refit the the cat section of exhaust, I do all the cutting gutting and welding leaving the guts in a bag for them.

I would instinctively think not necessary too, and such threats probably wouldn't worry me much if I was threatened, but this sort of situation seems to be becoming increasingly common on forums.

I once helped a few people on a Subaru Legacy forum who all had the same problem (never ran properly) with BRC systems fitted over 6 months despite many trips back to the installer, other BRC installers and Pete the BRC tech guy. At the time the forum users thanked me for my help but at the end I did a bit of summing up which one guy took exception to.. I implied that it couldn't reflect well on the installer or other BRC people that the owners had had to put up with BRC systems fitted so long that never ran properly and that the problem would be due to a combination of tech that wasn't really suited to the vehicle, how the tech was fitted and those involved's misunderstandings about what was going wrong and what would be necessary to sort the problems. I said that I could sort all the problems for £X by fitting spuds in the correct location with short pipe runs and fitting a different (none BRC) ECU and that if my fix didn't work first time round I wouldn't even charge for the repair. The guy who took exception said he was very happy with the service he'd received from his installer, other BRC installers and BRC tech's support guy Pete even though his car still didn't run properly, he tried painting a picture in which the BRC installers and tech support guy had somehow suffered bad luck but persisted with helping him with his problem. I painted a different picture in which I said I wouldn't expect any customer of mine to be happy in the same situation and in which the other guys didn't quite know their job well enough. He then threatened the forum and admin deleted the whole thread.

There's also a lot of bias on forums, particularly Toyota/Lexus forums, a certain done in a day installer in Wales seems to have just about all admins on forums about those vehicle marques in their pocket. They pay to sponsor one or two forums and then the admins are mates with admins on similar forums, all those admins prevent (on pain of a ban) any installer except the Welsh installer posting on forum (not that the Welsh firm ever do post) and even prevent forum members posting anything negative about them or doubting anything the installer says or does (again on pain of a ban). I've converted a lot of imported Nissans recently but getting into converting similar Toyota/Lexus vehicles through such forums is a problem because I'm not even allowed to discuss LPG on such forums. In an early post on one such forum I mentioned the Jap vehicles should have valve lube systems fitted but this didn't agree with what the Welsh installer said and admin deleted my post and threatened me with a ban.. which I eventually got. Lubes are still discussed on the same forum but admin says they're not necessary, I have customers who go on such forums who know they are necessary but don't dare contradict their forum admin because they'd end up getting a ban so there's lots of BS talked about lubes can't be necessary because LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol so valves can't get as hot as running on petrol so will last longer running on LPG lol. I suspect some admins get a free conversion or a big discount if they agree to keep plugging the Welsh firm.

Making users and posts anonymous would prevent any member saying "I wrote that 5 years ago but last year I became a paranoid recluse and don't want anything to identify me on the internet or I will sue" lol. Maybe more worrying for the owner of a site such as LPGforum is that there will be plenty mentions of firms etc in posts,the forum I linked to above just had it's first legal threat from a vehicle import firm after someone left a bad review claiming a vehicle they'd paid a deposit on and went to buy had been clocked. Someone suggested that the site could cover it's own back by adding a disclaimer to every post to the effect 'the views expressed by users are not necessarily the views of this forum', I don't know if that would prevent any legal comebacks and the owner didn't do that, instead he just deleted the content but at least he said he'd allow criticisms of firms and reviews if the critic substantiated points made with proof. The reviewed firm has had positive reviews on the same forum before and has no doubt gained some work from that, so if I were in the site owner's position I might have told them that if I was going to delete negative posts I'd also delete positive posts and any mention of them, either that or they could argue their side of the story on forum and drop the legal threats.

I'll offer my son's services to anyone who takes it over to help it meet legislation and switch platforms etc lol... It's OK I've asked him!
Someone like Richard probably wouldn't need the help though.

BrianH wrote:

Also Simon - Unless we have registered on there and posted 10 topics, or pay them £3 we can't read the post you linked to?

Bugger I forgot about that Bri! On ElgrandOC forum someone said they'd already tried personally contacting Morrisons and Asda to try to get them to increase number of filling stations selling LPG, they asked me if I could get some sort of petition going on 'That forum you go on Simon' (LPGforum). I originally said no because it'd never work as a thread but then thought Damian might be willing to send a PM to every member - for most of LPGForum's 6077 users old and new (of which I know a lot will no longer be interested) this would mean they'd get an emailed alert about the petition. Might be the last chance we get to even try to approach so many people who might be interested.

That would be great.

Kind of off subject - I just sent this email [below] to Damian (for benefit of others Damian is the LPGforum owner). Long shot but Richard would certainly be worth getting involved with this if LPG users are to give it a go.

Hi Damian,

Before LPGforum closes (if it does close), would it be possible to send a PM to all users to inform them about a petition to fuel retailers that will hopefully steer them to sell LPG at more sites than currently? Someone suggested this to me on another forum and I have just started an email address lpgpetition@yahoo.com for this purpose. I haven't yet come up with a format that people should use when sending an email but on the other forum I suggested the format should include name, town, wording to the effect they want to join the petition, something about having to drive X miles to buy fuel, if they are aware of others in the same situation.

Due to this https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/lpg-forum.9598/#post-98324 (see last few posts).

Just to let everyone know...

It's doubtful I'll be taking over LPGForum. Damian has said he's had a few offers besides my offer and would rather not let it go to someone with commercial interests... which I can fully understand and agree with.

I'd rather not be involved really because involvement would come with claims of biasing the forum to favour myself, so I'd be shooting myself in at least one foot by taking it on even if I was only paying bills and letting others do all the moderation etc. But rather that than see it and all it's content disappear... I have a vested interest in LPGforum continuing due to the content I and my customers have put on, if nobody else is going to save it and I have a chance to but don't I'd be shooting myself in both feet!

It may end up going to nobody because Damian has concerns about his responsibilities with new data laws and hints at thinking he could get in trouble for passing it on as it is, he's hardly likely to get involved with making changes himself before passing it on. If I were involved (and part of my reasoning for my offer to Damian) I would get my son involved to sort the forum out, he's well placed to do that.

The best outcome from my point of view (and perhaps from most LPG users point of view) would be if someone else took it on who doesn't have any commercial interests (other than perhaps advertising none LPG stuff), someone who allows as much free speech as Damian would be good..

Years ago one of my mates did a carpentry course, the teacher was using a circular or band saw to cut sheets of wood whilst giving a bit of a talk on it. Must have been distracted because whilst talking he fed the wood in a bit far and cut about an inch into the bit between his thumb and finger but didn't even notice until the youths said 'Errr your thumb mate', then he nearly fainted. Apparently that was a good lesson lol.