Looks good,
Yes - as you've found, the steering wheel controls need programming - which is good as you can map them to whatever you like - eg on mine I've swapped the seek and volume ones over (the diagrams on the wheel have worn off already) as I'm left handed and always went to control the volume with my left.
12V live is usually red, and switched is yellow, so swapping those around should sort the rest of it out.
How did the attenuators go with the audio level to the DSP amp?
I found this:
Ok, the seller is in Germany - but lists it as working on the 2.5 P38..
More interestingly though than waiting from Germany, there's a Bosch part number listed: 2467010003
Which brings up things like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E36-E38-E34-E39-2-5-TD-TDS-DIESEL-BOSCH-FUEL-PUMP-REPAIR-KIT-GASKET-/222079579960?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOSCH-Repair-Kit-2467010003-/302361719195?
and a whole host of others too...
Looks like the Bosch part number is the best to search by :)
I already have a funny feeling that if your DSP amp stops working, then you'll be coming down anyway... probably for me to put something more reliable in it's place...
Disconnecting the sub feed would the the easiest way to tell, yes.
My best guess, is that the output possibly has a low pass filter on it in the head unit, which is then fed to the amplifier. Since the subwoofer has it's own amplifier in it, again, my best guess is that the DSP amp does the audio control of the subwoofer signal, in relation to what the head unit is telling it to do when the subwoofer control is changed.
OR it might be the output from the head unit IS full range, and the DSP amplifier then has the low pass filter in it, and then manipulates the level to send back out to the sub amp.
OR it could be that the 2 wires do nothing, and the subwoofer derived the bass signal from the left/right that it is fed, and then manipulates the volume and sends that to the sub amp - as suggested on the other forum.
I've never actually had the (dis?)pleasure of having a working DSP amp in front of me to test and see how the various signals are mixed/filtered etc. As I mentioned above, the DSP amp was completely missing in my RR when I bought it, so pretty much all of my research has been around the nicest ways to adapt the system to work with another head unit, or amps etc, and avoid the cost of a replacement DSP amp when I first bought the vehicle... That and it's infinitely easier to work with aftermarket gear without the DSP amp!
The head unit in the CD changer/aux in scenario is acting as the switch for what the amplifier is getting it's signal from. Yes, you could probably wire a line level signal direct into the amp feed, but you'd have very little control over it if the head unit was disonnected. Going through the head unit, you can then control all the parameters of the audio, and obviously switch between the external source and the radio etc.
I still believe the amp get it's sub feed from the head unit. Plugging an aux into the CD changer port won't have any effect on what the head unit outputs.. just because you put a L/R feed in and the head unit outputs L/R doesn't mean it doesn't output the sub aswell - it just means that the bass frequencies are filtered out of the incoming feed, and send out a different output.
I know there is a guy on the other forum who believes that the sub is all done in the amp - and I haven't looked at the sub input/output on a DSP amp to confirm or deny it... but in my head, the head unit must do something with a sub signal, as otherwise why are the orange/orange black output wires there... if they weren't doing anything (like the rear left/right don't) then why weren't they removed (like the rear left/right were from the loom on the later ones).
Attentuators are easy to make - have a look on Rangerovers.net, or google P38 attenuators. It shows the layout of them and the components needs. Ray A designed them years ago now to convert the output level from an amplified source to the level that the P38 amps are expecting to see (which is also higher than a standard line level signal).
Steering wheel controls are easy.. Connect Key 1 to the grey/orange wire in the P38 loom. Done. The head unit has a 5V reference feed on that wire, and then measures the voltage drop when one of the steering wheel buttons are pressed. The software on the unit records an action against the voltage it measures when each button is pressed. So simple and easy.
Gilbertd wrote:
Of all the different systems fitted to the P38, the DSP one is the worst when it comes to wanting to fit anything aftermarket. As most of the processing was done in the DSP amp, there's only a stereo output to the amp and a separate output for the sub. You'd need to bypass the amp so the left and right feeds to it are linked to the front speakers and run a separate two pairs for the rears. Ideally you'd need to add some crossovers too. Having looked at the work Marty has done and the grief it has caused him, I'm really glad I don't have a car new enough for it to be fitted with the DSP system.
And the biggest thing was that I didn't have the DSP system... when I bought mine, the DSP amp was missing, so it was a case of make something work. I could have gotten away without the crossovers et-al and just fed full range to everything, and it would have worked - but I like my audio to sound somewhat decent, hence making the crossovers.
If I knew then, what I know now about the head unit being the same as for the later non-DSP stereo setup, I would probably have bunged an amp board in mine a long time ago and been done with it!
But even so, the DSP system, unless it's running how the factory intended and the amp hasn't shat itself, then it's just a PITA to do much with.
However.....
blueplasticsoulman wrote:
Just got home and had a read of the wiring diagrams. There appears to be lineouts (audio out L and Audio out R) that may be suitable for wiring into the cd changer as I previously did with the 3.5mm jack on the old car.
So that would make it Audio out L goes to the Green wire of the blue connector on the radio and the Audio out R goes to the Purple wire of the blue connector. And ground to ground obviously. No need to use the sub output as the dsp will sort that out.
Am I right or wrong?
I know it's Heath Robinson but there isn't much choice.
In your case, I would either try the line outputs (they probably won't be much good as they possibly won't be what the level is that the DSP amp is expecting), or make 2x attenuator units up, and use the LHF and RHF output from the android unit, through the attenuators, to the front left/right feeds to the DSP amp.
As your factory head unit works, etc, keep that so it's powered, and then it can do the controlling of the DSP amp, for final volume control, fade/balance etc.
You may need to wire the sub into the output from the android unit, as I'm not 100% convinced the subwoofer is fed internally from the DSP amp - if it was, why would they run the wires from the head unit for it? especially when they didn't run rear/left right from the head unit... so if the sub wires aren't used, then why are they there etc...
If you are using the audio out L/R (D2/D3 on your sheet above) then these will be line level. If you use the wires in the main connector, then these will be amplified. You'd also be better using the FL +/- and FR +/- (white + white/black and grey + grey/black) through an attenuator circuit to the vehicle wiring.
If you wanted to do it 'properly' then I'd rip the DSP amp out, and replace it with something like my DSP replacement board, which has 4x door amps on it - and then wire in all 4 corners from the android unit (thru attenuators) to the appropriate doors. Then the nav unit is controlling all the audio, and you could probably sell the working DSP amp for a bit and cover the cost of the install...
As much as I do love the Nanocom, and it is still my favourite diagnostics of choice because of size/functionality/portability etc, I do have to agree with you in some respects.
Sometimes, I think it's the ECU that is the cause - communications need to be reset etc (the HEVAC is bad for this - pretty much takes me 2 tries to connect every time) and also the communications protocol and speeds are going to the a LOT slower than newer vehicles with CAN bus and who knows what in them.
But, I do also find that sometimes the Nanocom is a bit 'clunky' to use, and I've had mine hang a few times too - most noticeably if you've had the 'instruments' running and then shut the engine off, and it loses communication with the ECU, mine just sits there - it won't even come up with a 'ECU communication error' and the red 'X' doesn't work to exit out.
I've also noticed that some of the labels for the information in boxes is incorrect to what the data is. I mentioned on the Nanocom forum a long time ago that the ABS sensors, at least in the WABCO 'D' Series don't match up with the values being displayed (or the fault codes). Also I've found that the left/right heating button inputs in the HEVAC are back to front - so RH button shows up as 'LH' in Nanocom etc.
Overall, I'm just used to it, and tell myself to go slow when using it, but it does get frustrating at times, and with things like the incorrect labels, it could potentially throw off new users who aren't aware of it!
Gilbertd wrote:
Martyuk wrote:
Hmm, looks like I'm out of the contest for the red Vogue too... since I'm already in the '3 P38 club'!
Yeah but you've got the space. I've run out with 3 P38s, a Maserati Biturbo Spider, Dina's Merc, the company van and I picked up a Discovery last weekend that I'll be selling on behalf of someone else. At least 2 of them have to go before the end of the month as there's a Volvo P1800ES sitting in a container about to cross the Atlantic too.
Sadly not really :( the last time I left p38s outside at the workshop, they eventually got broken into... they're secure inside at the moment.
I could fit one outside, but I've found that the space next to the workshop is technically my 'parking'... There's also still a massive heap of shite in the other space I could use...
I have this old grey seat base at home if you still want it. Not sure of easier way to get it to you though...
Hmm, looks like I'm out of the contest for the red Vogue too... since I'm already in the '3 P38 club'!
I would image they do it that way to avoid a massive current draw through one track in the fuse box.. possibly also so if (when) one part of it fails, it doesn't affect the whole screen, but just half.
My main thought would be due to the current draw, and just trying to manage that a bit more.
I still think that the heated screen fault is a red herring though... unless there is actually a fault in the wiring to the fuse box, the HEVAC has no way of telling if the screen i open circuit or not, as it isn't monitored.
Looking at that diagram that the wire to the fuse box goes through the infamous kick panel connectors. I just cut my drivers footwell connectors out yesterday and soldered all the wires together with heatshrink over the joins.
Most of the wires on mine were anywhere between a bit dirty to really corroded.
The HEVAC is horrible for throwing up random faults.
The best course of action for determining what is actually faulting in the HEVAC unit to start by ignoring whatever it has logged. Hit clear faults, and then when it says 'faults cleared' exit out of the HEVAC, turn ignition off, then back on again, and then go back in and read the HEVAC faults again.
The HEVAC doesn't actually erase the faults until it is next powered up. Usually then when you've cleared faults and powered off/on, and read again, anything that is left is an actual fault (and if it's something like the blend motor/feedback pot, you can see it (or not see it doing anything) in the live data.
The motronic faults are showing as not currently present - so again could just be logged. I've had those faults come up on mine, and usually when the fuel trims are way out, or hit the limit of their adaptation. If he's had dodgy fuel injectors, and LPG system which has been out of calibration, then between them it's probably thrown the fuel trims out, and caused those codes.
In theory I would again clear them, reset adaptive values and then see if they come back after a bit of driving. Since the injectors have been sorted, and LPGC has done the LPG calibration, its most likely the fuel trims have re-adapted to where they should be - which is why the faults are only showing as logged.
As Gilbertd says about the airbags... and the bonus with it being an '00 is it will automatically clear when the problem is sorted :)
Maybe should have made that a thing at Summer Camp... mine is bloody leaking again too now...
I've attacked it all with silicone before, but looks like I need to go in for another attempt... The pollen filter is pretty filthy, so that's on the list of things to replace aswell, before I seal it all up again
First off, as Gilbertd says - check the fuse box is the correct one for your vehicle..
Second, as Orangebean says - see if there's a cable from the alternator direct to the battery, if not, then I'd look at adding one. It provides a more direct charging route, rather than going via the starter motor - which ends up being about another 2m of cable for it to go through before getting to the battery - which can cause issues especially if the starter connection gets grimy and horrible! And also can corrode internally.
The voltage drop on both the positive and negative battery cables is fairly high - you should be seeing a MAXIMUM of about 100mv drop, with a good system (with new cables etc) it can be down to like 30mV. The higher the voltage drop along the cables then the less charging current that will get from the alternator to the battery.
Having good clean battery cables, and shortest runs possible will give the best possible charge at the battery - with the least voltage drop.
If there's a battery drain issue there as well, then that won't be helping matters either - just means you're on a downward spiral to a flat battery!
Simple test... 9v battery on the speaker +/- wires. Don't leave it connected, just tap it. Of the cone moves, then chances are the speaker is OK.
One polarity the speaker cone should push out, the other it should pull in.
Door amps do fail occasionally, but I had a speaker in mine when I bought it where it was seized solid, and thus wouldn't work.
You can of course swap the amp to the other front door the test it too.
If it's a Sport 2, then it's it's own vehicle... if it's a first version Sport, then it's a D3 underneath and something sparkly on top...
But it does look nice, I'll give it that...
Is it one of the ones where you have to take the whole bodyshell off to do the belts on the back of the engine? I know one of the diesel versions you have to, but can't remember if it's the 6 or 8 cylinder version (or both) that need it to come off...
I read that a 'good' LR shop can have the body off in about 1.5hrs... so it's only 3hrs worth of labour you're paying for before they've actually done anything to what they're going in there for!
I've seen a couple of white sports around this area (hideous) and a flame orange one - which looked OK I guess, surprisingly...
I believe the splices are probably going to be somewhere around the RHR light, either in the 'C' Pillar, or above the headlining, as that's where the loom splits off to go to the RHR light, and then forwards and around to the sunroof etc. (from memory) with the other side of the loom running along the back to the top of the tailgate.
If you pull the tailgate seal away at the top, you should be able to get into the space above the headlining card and get to the connectors. It would probably be worth checking for voltage there, as it will tell you if the issue is in the vehicle side of the loom (back as far as the splice if the other lamps are working inside the vehicle), or if there is voltage there, then the issue is in the tailgate section of the loom.
I'd still be looking carefully at the last few inches of wiring to the boot light itself. If that's where the spark was, then to me, the problem must be around there. As I mentioned before, my boot light just stopped working (I swapped it for a couple of LED panels ages ago) one day. When I got around to looking at it, one of the wires had corroded inside the insulation, and broken right through, so no voltage at the connectors. The other wire had corroded through at the connector, and pretty much fell apart in my hands.
I think others can do the 'disarm' part of the EKA to the BECM - but again that only works on vehicles with a BECM version of 37 or later anyway - so won't even work on early ones from a Nanocom, as it wasn't implemented in the BECM.
I was seriously considering Lynx, as even though it was sold by Britpart, it's actually made by Omitech, who made the original T4 system for Land Rover... so I figured the functionality must be somewhat on par - even if it wasn't as all singing and dancing as Testbook. The thing that put me off of Lynx was that there was very little coverage information on what it actually would do, what values it would show, live data etc.. I emailed Britpart direct about it, and even actually offered to do a detailed worksheet of the functionality for P38's in depth, if they would send me a unit to evaluate...
They declined and said they had their own P38 that they could try it on etc... and when I pressed for when they would actually release some information of any use (like even half way on par with the nanocom manuals) I got no definite answer, and shelved the idea. Playing with one from another owner for an afternoon just put the nail in the coffin for Lynx for me, as it is just not that user friendly either - and I figured if they couldn't even tell me what the coverage was actually like on P38's then who knows what their after sales support would be like (probably non-existent!)
By then I'd bought the Nanocom aswell, and was very happy with the purchase.
Faultmate is the one that is VIN locked - unless you get the MSV unit, which is multiple vehicle - and a lot more expensive... these days the Nanocom does pretty much the same as a MSV faultmate, but without the price tag.
Hawkeye from memory used to be licenced per vehicle type, but as others have said - is very text based, and not as 'interactive' as the Nanocom. I'm also not sure what it's extent of capabilities are with regards to live data logging etc. There is apparently a new 'Hawkeye Total' which does pretty much every LR vehicle at a reasonable price - but I don't know what the trade-off is in functionality though...
I've only ever had experience with Nanocom, the EAS Unlock V1, and briefly, Lynx.
The EAS unlock V1 is the free one, which only does EAS stuff... It's great, and on occasion I find it easier to use than Nanocom for EAS stuff - especially calibration. But you have to have a laptop to run it on.
Lynx - Again, laptop based - seemed fairly functional, but at least when I tried it, a very clunky user interface. You had to tell it for example what live data parameters you wanted to look at before clicking 'ok' and viewing them... which on a laptop, with a big screen, I would expect everything to be displayed, and then you be able to click on an individual item to either bring it up full screen for monitoring, or record it for comparisons etc. the guy who had the Lynx that let me have a demo of it was interested in the Nanocom I had by then, and after I showed him the functionality of Nanocom, he sold the Lynx and bought Nanocom aswell.
Nanocom - it's what I went with too - good functionality coverage (best out of all the ones I researched) good support, downloadable manuals etc. Also full functionality on P38's, with one single cable. Fully integrated unit with touchscreen, powers from the vehicle OBD port, so no need for an extra laptop etc to be carried with you, if you want to have diagnostics with you wherever you are.
My vote - would be Nanocom... also given that out of the 6 owners that were a Summer Camp, 5 of us had Nanocoms, goes some way ( I think) to show that a wide range of us who use them for different things all find the same tool does the job we want!
The cruise control vacuum pump on petrol P38's is screwed to the back of the EAS box... On a GEMS it's between the EAS box and charcoal canister. On Thor, it's same place - but behind it is the engine ECU.
So on a 20 gallon tank, you should be able to squeeze just 388 miles out of it... not that I'd want to run it dry! 350 is probably a good maximum to go with!