Just caught up with the goings on. Sorry but the driving and the new job are keeping me away...

I can confirm the things below as I have done it:

FIP
To remove the FIP you need to lock the engine at TDC using the FLYWHEEL locking pin - not in the pump. If you don't put the pin in all the way, when you undo the FIP nut you turn the engine backwards. That's why I'm having to change my timing chains as it's as easy to change them as check them.
You also need the special tool to hold the timing chain in place while you remove the FIP or the timing chain moves inside the housing and then your timing is out. I believe that is what the first "mechanic" that swapped my first FIP did (or technically DIDN'T do). Smokey as hell and massive reduction in power.

FIP SEALS
If they changed the TOP seal only on your FIP - it doesn't need any special tools apart from removing the security bolt. It also DOES NOT affect anything else at all.

The one that you have to be careful about is the second one down, that DOES need to be done carefully and in a certain way.

The FIP being "on cam" is (as far as I know) ONLY for changing the HP o-ring that the 6 pipes go into as a bit can fall out and get stuck internally if it's done wrong.

VP37 EDC
The FIP is an EDC version of the Bosch VP37 - that's the special electronics bit in the top as far as I'm aware. Electronic diesel control I believe.

In tank pump (aka lift pump)
The in tank lift pump gives no faults when it fails. You will have trouble starting the car with 1/4 tank or less of diesel and especially if it's pointing up hill at 1/4 of a tank or less. Mine did.
You can check if the intank pump is working or not by removing the fuel pipe from the fuel filter and measuring how much squirts out into a measuring jug. If nothing comes out when the ignition is turned and the engine cranks - it's f*cked 👍 There is a specific amount it squirts out so you can measure if it's working 100% or reduced rate. It only squirts once on start up, after that the FIP suction takes over.

These cost around £25 and if the hole has been cut in your floor should take 30 mins maximum to change. Honestly.

You are best to install a non return valve between the fuel filter and bulk head in the fuel line. You will NEVER know that your intank pump has failed again once you do this 😄

Good luck Mazz1, if I was nearer I would have helped but I'm working in Cornwall & Devon and travelling Sunday's & Friday's.
If you intend to keep the P38 definately buy a Nanocom or similar. You won't regret it.

All the best and keep us posted,

Hoppy

Mazz1 wrote:

Anyway no communication from garage today. To be honest I feel like giving up on the whole damn mess and scrap it.

If I was to hazard a guess they now know you have knowledge. And they don't. Only specific diagnostics will talk to a P38, Nanocom, Hawkeye and one or 2 others. The diagnostic port is called OBD2 / ODB II - which is a standard. The problem is the P38 doesn't use the standard. Only the plug/connector.

If you can wait for one of our Knight's to help I would recommend that. I wouldn't go back to that garage.

Don't listen to any waffle of "I have a Snap on diag, it's brilliant!". It might read certain codes but it's not any use. I learned when it cost me a replacement engine.

Upon disconnecting the pipe to the reservoir, he was gobsmacked to find it still had pressure in it. After 15 years!!!!
Result!

Well that should mean there will be no corrosion on the inside then 👍

Of course Dave - Even I ache after a full day under the bonnet these days! Not this weekend I have the cavalry coming up (step sons) to help. But this is a multi weekend operation!

So definitely the weekend after (20th) - but weather dependant.

And thanks very much!

The hardest part Marty is that you need a helper to hold the Nano and try to show you the figures or read them out to you while you are doing the tiny adjustments on the FIP with your head under the bonnet. And it's hard to hear over noise of the engine and the viscous fan blowing in your face hahahaha.

If the cable was about 2 - 3 feet longer it would be easy! I'll take 5% when you start selling Nano extension cables for FIP adjustments 😄

Marty if you need any help I can talk you through it 👍

Hi Mazz1

I finally managed to get on here. Like most others on here my mistress is a P38 and I've learned along the way to fix problems as I find them. Usually with forums to help, there are 3 great ones and this is one of them. The 2 best are Brit ones ;)

First things first - you NEED to get a Nanocom or similar on the car to chase the faults. I'm in Winsford, Cheshire so I'm too far away, but one of our Knights will probably help 😄 If you don't have your own diagnostics you will be wasting your time, chasing faults and garages will see you as a cash point machine.

Dave told me the garage had changed your leaking seals on the FIP. I have done this myself and managed to set it up again. The first time a "mechanic" did it it cost me a replacement engine.

If you have the hole cut under your back seat it is at most a 1 hour job. It's easier with 2 people (my wife [angel]) is my spare hands. On mine I can say that the intank pump (some call it a lift pump) fails around every 18 months. It's cheaper to buy a new one and install (or get someone) it yourself and part of this procedure is to install a non return valve between the fuel filter and the bulk head (the thick black pipe). If you have that installed then you won't ever notice that your in tank pump has failed until you check it. I think mine had failed for well over 6 months and I have a sloping drive and had all the "below 1/4 of a tank not starting problems".

Back to the story. My FIP had been leaking and the mechanic told me he'd one P38's before. He very obviously lied as it was awful after he put it back together and scarpered. No power at all and thick black smoke when I put my foot down. The only way to get anywhere was using the manual side of the auto gear box. I had to really rev the engine to get any acceleration. It would not accelerate in automatic and blew huge clouds of black smoke when I tried!

What I suspect is that he did not have the correct tools to hold the timing chain and slipped the chain.

I also had another problem that was a severe lack of power that wasn't related to the FIP. No power and unable to rev past 50 - 60 mph. It makes it feel like a failed clutch or failing gear box << Solution for me? MAF sensor - Dave3d let me borrow his. So a quick check for this is to unplug the big plug connector on the MAF sensor. This is the pipe between the air filter and the intake manifold and has BMW stamped/embossed on it and an arrow showing air flow. If your MAF has failed your car will drive like it has full power again once the electrical plug is unplugged. If you plug it back in and it's rubbish again that's your answer - they are not cheap though.

FIP fault: The middle section of the pump (second o ring down) is the part of the FIP that can severely change how your car drives and makes power.
There are 5 o rings / gaskets on an FIP (although I have one that only has 3, it has 2 steel gaskets instead of o rings as standard.)

O rings that leak - on mine they did :)

1. Top gasket doesn't affect anything when you change it. BUT you do have to remove the anti-tamper triangle headed bolt. I used a 9/32 socket whacked on with a hammer and replaced this with a replacement bolt.
2. Middle gasket this is the one is attached to a part inside (can't remember the name) that changes/messes with fuel quantity delivery. You NEED live diagnostics to correct this one.
3. Lozenge shaped cover at the lower front - can be changed with FIP on the car, fiddly but can be done. Doesn't affect anything changing this one.
4. Lozenge shaped cover at the rear - FIP has to come off. This is easy once you've done it once, but you need the correct tools. Not to be attempted without them.
5. Where all the pipes go into the FIP there is another high pressure o ring. There is a home mechanic way of doing this and it CAN be done with the FIP still on the car. Get it wrong and you need to remove the FIP and a bit falls out inside.

I've changed all my o rings and gaskets. It takes a long time to remove all the bits to actually get to the FIP. Took me around 4 1/2 hours just to get to the FIP.

Timing

The FIP has static timing - from the timing chains. The chains stretch due to wear and tear and eventually this means that the FIP is no longer at the factory setting and usually get's hard to start. The electronics in the top of the FIP (top cover) mixed with the ecu can electronically adapt and allow for that but only up to a point. Then it needs mechanically static timing. You need special tools for this - but I did do this successfully. I can see why a garage would charge a lot of money, mostly labour to remove all the gubbins to be able to start the job.

This is one of my previous posts where I had corrected the middle section of the FIP being out of alignment
(https://rangerovers.pub/topic/1208-diesel-fuel-injection-pump-modulation)

Just a few weeks ago swapped out my top and middle gaskets on the FIP and after asking Wammers on another forum (he is a retired mechanic and a serious FIP boffin - but he is cantankerous hahaha) the advice I got was this:-

Modulation is only adjustable via static timing and no other way. 95% is right at the end of the ability for the electronic brains to account for chain stretch and it will need the static timing adjusting sooner rather than later. My modulation is 67% but I will do static timing in the spring.

Twisting the pump only changes the mg/stroke (which is really mg/litre apparently) which should be between 5 - 6 mg/str for best running @ 750rpm, 128 is the correct fuelling value on Nanocom. To keep my rpm @ 750 I have to put my fuelling at 129 so you can adjust that. The dash rpm counter needle however shows around 775 on the dash, Nano shows 750rpm exactly, so I go with that.

If you haven't yet done it, the twisting and moving is a pain in the arse and will seriously test your patience! Slight tightening of one bolt revs go up, slight loosening of another and they drop, it's a balancing act it just takes time and cups of tea :) If you loosen the bolts too much if you don't spot it you will find a nice diesel smell, thats the pump pissing diesel out - so don't loosen them too much just enough to get movement.

I am in no way a guru I'm just passing on the same info that I was given so I hope this will help others as it did for me.

So correct measurements should be:
750rpm
fuelling @ 128 on nanocom
5-6 mg/str
modulation 50% (+/- 5%)

With new chains static timing is set at 0.95 mm lift at TDC. Over time as the chains run in and loosen up slightly it should drop to 0.9 mm static.

If I have missed anything out or got something wrong please feel free to correct me guys. I'm not a guru but I do believe in knowledge sharing as these forums have been a godsend for me!

I'm in Cornwall all week but can get on here in the evenings.

I hope it helps and I haven't bored you to death and I absolutely hate garages that take advantage of people.

cheers,

Hoppy (and my long suffering P38 widow Kerrie)

Well my new job is ok, only problem is I'm in Launceston Sunday night - Friday pm.
Rommel is sat on the drive almost at the point of taking off the head to get to the timing chains and sprockets... anyone fancy helping? hahaha
I need my bloody P38 back on the road - just hard to do from 268 miles away 😆

Dave there is something wrong with your HEVAC mate. Where is the book symbol that is standard? :😆

Dave3d has lent me a spare MAF sensor and now Rommel works with no faults. Thanks Dave3d 👍

Believe it or not I actually cleaned the MAF sensor as Dave3d said and it improved the 1 - 2nd lurching upchange and smoothed it out. Two days later worse than ever.

I hope it helps anyone else who has the mysterious loss of power that actually feels like slipping clutches.

Dave I will be chipping it in due course now that all the niggling problems of leaking FIP, leaking #1 injector, leaking spill off pipes, failed MAF sensor, failed in tank pump, failed water pump and failed serpentine belt have been fixed 😆

SOLVED:
Unplugged the MAF sensor plug (after the air filter) now going like a rocket. New one will be ordered. Must have been on the way out when I cleaned it as it did improve for 24 hours. Cheaper than a gearbox, but I will be getting an HP24, txfr box and uprated tc lined up in the future for when the inevitable happens

Thanks to all for your advice 👎
MAF not MAP

I have changed the ATF, changed the burned out lift pump and still getting the slipping and lack of power, top speed 50mph and no more no matter what.
Guess the box really is shagged hahaha

dave3d wrote:

If you are going to change your gearbox, change it for the HP24 out of the 4.6. It has stronger internals, particularly if you have chipped the engine. Use your old diesel bellhousing and torque converter. You need to get the later HP24 box marked 065, which is a direct swap. I can advise on the details as I have done it.

The bellhousings and TC's are different between the diesel and 4.0/4.6.

Also you can get an uprated TC for the diesel. I have fitted one.

Hi Dave3d,

I've tracked down a 065 👍 So even with the 065 I still need to swap the tc and bellhousing? Where do you get a beefed up TC from? Does it come from a supplier or from another P38 family?

And thanks for the coffee 👍

Thanks for the info guys

Will a 98 box fit my 99 DSE? I have an older gearbox which I will confirm the serial number / part number tomorrow

Cheshire, Oulton Park. Funnily enough I had my engine swap done there! Dave and his dad were really great, very helpful and I fully recommend them.
Question is is it more cost effective for an Ashcroft rebuilt gearbox or a non provenance second hand gear box from a scrapper? Clutch packs could be in the same condition.....

Well today the car is now slipping heavily in 2nd. Won't really go past 50mph now. Finally got back from the airport, I'm guessing clutch pack or TC. Bugger

Just saw this thread. I can make it 6/7 April. My bushes have just started clunking after 5 years of ownership. Good timing me thinks!

Ok I've cleaned the MAF with some cleaner (Amazon 12 hour delivery 👍 ) and I can report that I do have some improvement. I'm guessing that the ecu will have to re-learn gear changes again. Will watch it closely over the next few days.
I'll keep you all posted. Thanks :-D

Gilbertd, I find the roads are brilliant except round Paris (I avoid when I can, go via Caen/Le Havre) until the last hour of driving. Horrible 50mph roads.