Thanks to Richard. As Blanco says, we have something like 25 branches [as far as I know] in Ireland. I will call over to my local branch, but I can't ring because the phone number is a UK automated system, and you can't get through th individual branches. I suspect the only way is to go to the branch and ask them for their phone number.

Pierre3.

I have had no information on these little buggers so I got on to James Coleman, in Essex, and he is going to see if he can rescue a few from his breakers.

Pierre3.

Yes, indeed, but at least I won't need to do them again.

I'm in the process of getting the power steering high pressure line repaired by Pirtek. I have a brand new pipe from an early P38, which has the same bend in the pipe where it connects to the power steering pump, under the alternator, but the end that goes onto the steering box is different and needs replacing.

Pirtek guy is going to either cut off the old pipe section, that I still need, or make up a new one if he can. Either way, he will make one good pipe out of the two that I have - a new one and an old one.

Then I just have to fit a new water pump [in the garage], and then refit everything else. Fill with coolant, hope that it un-airlocks itself, and bleed the power steering. I have to opportunity to clean up the aluminium rocker cover, though, and also get a load of Gunk onto the under side of the engine and the steering bits and pieces to try to clean it all up a bit.

I'm a bit miffed as I can't find anyone anywhere near where I live who does steam cleaning. There used to be a number truck washes in my county area who all used to do steam pressure washing, but they all seem to have disappeared. So I guess I will have to do it with Gunk, a wire brush and a pressure washer ! Break out the haz-mat suit.

Pierre3.

Thanks Harv, I will study the RAVE manual --- really, really hard !! It won't be my fault if I have to send further posts from a hospital bed though.

Just remember where the "encouragement" came from -- OK 😀 .

Pierre3.

Hi, yes, I replaced them, with a bit of help [!] last August. There was a leak from the back of the gearbox cooler, at one of the connections, and I got a good price for a complete gearbox cooler kit, so cooler radiator and the pipes, from Maltings Offroad.

Pierre3.

Marshall8hp, thanks for the information. I was assuming that it was something like that but I didn't actually know. When I had Isuzu Troopers I disconnected the EGR pipes as the system used to produce black smoke from the exhaust, under acceration. The pipes were flexi pipes and the answer was just to screw a bolt into one end of the pipe, to block it.

Anyway, having had a look at it I was not going to try to move it to change the thermostat because there would be a very big amount of disembling involved. Fortunately, I found that I was able to remove the thermostat housing without having to remove any of the pipes around the housing.

Pierre3.

Marshall8hp, thanks for the instruction. Having read that I will give it a miss !! I thought that it might be like the large Mercedes bonnets, from 30 years ago, which opened up to a pre-determined angle, helped by large springs, but then you could flip two clips beside the springs and the bonnet would go up to almost vertical, again assisted by the bonnet springs.

Pierre3.

I can't quite figure them out. I am beginning to wonder whether these clips could have come from elsewhere, but the one in the picture was definitely attached to one of the power steering pipes.

There are two strange looking brackets still fixed to the radiator support lugs, where the round holes that hold the shroud are. They seem to be metal fixing, but I will see if I can get a better look in the morning. Either way, I still don't see anything very explanatory in the RAVE manual, just a vague mention in the power steering section of the manual. I'll try the details that you have kindly given me.

Pierre3.

Thanks, Richard, I'll have a look tomorrow.

Pierre3.

In comparison to Richards battle all I have done is to fit new power steering pipes in my DHSE.

By the way, is it possible to lift the bonnet up past the normal position ? I had a 1983 Mercedes a year or two ago, and the bonnet on that car lifts to a first position, and then, if required, you can unclip two lugs on the hinges and the bonnet will rise up to almost vertical. Can this be done on the P38 ?

Pierre3.

Ah-ha ------------ after some careful study and taking a deep breath, and loosening stuff around the engine I have been able to replace the thermostat. Not only that, it did turn out easier that I expected. There is just enough room to extract the thermostat housing bolts and then wobble the housing and move it out sideways. The awkward part was getting the new 'stat back in, as the little pin thing has to sit in a little passage in the housing. Trying to keep the 'stat in position in the housing, and then trying to re-locate the housing back into position was a pain, as it kept moving, and it was almost impossible to see to locate it in position. As far as I know I have it correctly reseated !

Pierre3.

Hi guys, I wonder whether anyone knows where I can get some power steering pipe clips. I have just replaced the power steering pipes and the clips that seem to be located on the radiator brackets have disintegrated. I am attaching a couple of pictures.

If anybody knows the part number, or who has them in stock then I would grateful. Failing that I will have to start checking with the used parts guys !

Pierre3.

Hi Richard, when you look at the first picture you can see the black pipe that curves around the thermostat housing [black plastic with large pipe connected, just above A/C compressor]. The water pump is located just to the left of the belt tensioner wheel, and just to the right of the curved black pipe. More importantly, the thermostat, and to a lessor degree, the water pump are both obstructed by the silver coloured pipe running from left to right, in front of the engine block.

Looking at the picture below, you can get a clearer idea of the locations of the items, you can just see the yellow engine oil fill cap in the top left hand side of the picture. So the picture is looking straight down into the space where the radiator, the viscous fan and the fan shroud would be. What looks like a radiator is, in fact, the intercooler radiator which sits in front of the engine radiator. The engine radiator sits on the two lugs, at the bottom of the picture, where the two power steering pipes are.

In pictures 3 & 4 of my previous post [with 5 pictures] you can see the silver, non-flexible pipe connected to the air intake manifold, and if looking carefully, it will be seen that it is bolted to the black pipe that curves around the thermostat housing. It is not possible to move this pipe out of the way without stripping out the fan belt tensioner mechanism, and some of the electrical cable carrier stuff. Even then, the silver pipe is still connected somewhere down the side of the engine block, under the battery carrier.

So I suspect that the thermostat is not going to be a changeable item. I have a new one ordered but, as the overheating problem was obviously a disintegrated water pump, I think the thermostat will be going into the soare parts box, only to be fitted when the car goes into the garage for something major. It certainly doesn't appear, at this point, that, despite having the radiator and fan out, I will be able to get the thermostat out to be able to change it. I know that the temperature sits quite low, on the last point of the blue sector on the gauge, and never really gets to 12 o'clock on the gauge except in slow moving traffic, but it has always done this so I don't think that I need to be overly concerned. The mpg works out around the same that other people have suggested, about 20 - 25 mpg, and the motor has never shown any inclination to get very hot in the past so I think that the existing thermostat is doing its job.

Pierre3.

Richard, I have to disagree with you! Normally I would appreciate your advice, and I have always found it to be good but with this issue there is no way that you can get the radiator out without removing the fan and shround. The radiator has lugs on the bottom which hold the shroud, and when you lift up the shroud [maybe 2 inches] to clear the radiator lugs then you can't force the shround closer to the engine to allow the radiator to pull up and out. You have to take out the fan, with the shroud first.

Then, if you look at the pictures, you will notice a silver coloured pipe running across the front of the engine. I didn't see any mention of this pipe anywhere. It also runs right across the front of the thermostat, and I don't see how I can get the thermostat housing out without major de-construction. The silver pipe is bolted to the front end of the air intake manifold, but it is bent down and around, with another fixing under the intercooler pipe. As it is a solid, non-flexible pipe and it goes down the right hand side of the engine there is no way to remove it without taking everything off the front of the engine.

Again, if you look at the pictures I have one or two with the radiator sitting in place, and it shows how little room there is between the radiator and the engine. I think that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get the water pump out safely with the radiator sitting right in front of the water pump shaft.

If you don't release the power steering reservoir then it prevents you lifting the viscous fan and shround out of the gap. If you look you will see that the reservoir sits partially across the area where the right hand side of the shround is located, but you have to push the reservoir out of the way for the shroud the clear the radiator to inlet pipes. It would just not be possible to replace a water pump with the engine cover and shroud in place - physically impossible, because the silver metal pipe absolutely prevents you lifting anything out of that space.

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Pierre3.

Lpgc, you are right - but I wasn't sure which coolant to use. And Richard is correct in mentioning a 50/50 mix if using concentrate.

What happened was that I was buying Exol Opticool Red, and my local guy has it in stock. So I ordered 10 litres as I have to do a full refill, except for any left in the heater matrix. On the Exol UK website there was listed Opticool Red 50/50 mix ready to use, and this is what I thought that I had ordered.

But when I went back to my local guy to recheck the order it turned out that there is also Opticool Red, but it is concentrate, and this is what I had ordered. So I rang him and asked which one was my order for, and it was for 10 litres of concentrate. Oooops.

As the order hasn't been sent out, though, he refunded me the amount for 5 litres and said to use it 50/50, as is recommended. He said that he didn't have the ready mixed Opticool in 5 litres, only 20 litres, which I would never use. So, I will get 5 litres of concentrate tomorrow in a nice red colour !

Just on the subject of changing the water pump, and the thermostat, I looked at quite a number of videos online, and read the RAVE manual and both places of information lack certain valuable information.

Firstly, you cannot remove the fan shroud without removing the viscous fan, because the shround is a complete piece around the fan. Even if you loosen the radiator you can't do it because there is no room at all to lift out the radiator, as there are lugs on the bottom of the radiator, which locate the shroud, and the shroud won't move back far enough to let the radiator come out on its own.

Whatever RAVE says you have to start at the beginning and disassemble everything. First, drain the coolant, then remove the various pipes and tubes around the radiator plus move the power steering reservoir and the windscreen washer filler. Then get your 32mm spanner in at the viscous fan nut and undo it Clockwise [ as you look at the front of the car]. When it comes undone then you can lift out the viscous fan complete with the shroud. The radiator can then be removed by undoing 2 nuts and bolts located at the bottom of te radiator, on either side. This lets you pull up the radiator.

Then you have plenty of room to access the front of the engine to replace the water pump and the thermostat. I don't believe that you could do these jobs without removing the viscous fan and the shroud, but the radiator could probably stay in place.

What isn't mentioned in RAVE, and completely buggers up the job, if you don't disassemble everything, is a solidly fixed metal tube than is connected to the front end of the air inlet manifold and goes across the front of te engine, just above the fan belt and then disappears down the left hand side of the engine. Without major work you can't move this pipe, I know, I tried very hard. But it blocks any access to the top of the water pump and makes access very difficult to the nut on the viscous fan.

Anyway, I just wrote it all down in a word document for myself, in case I need to do this job again. One really useful aside is that I may have an easy way to replace a slightly weeping power steering pipe as these two pipes also run from left to right under the radiator, and without the fan and radiator in place then there is plenty of room to change these two pipes.

Pierre3.

I was fairly pleased to actually see this, because, as you rightly say, I have a definite reason for the engine overheating. At least I don't have to go changing all the other bits like the viscous fan and the radiator. I will fit a new thermostat though.

On this issue - is there any reason not to use 100% orange OAT coolant, and not have to water it down ? I just happen to read other posts, elsewhere, saying that owners have used a 50/50 coolant water mix, but my experience has always been to use 100% coolant. There was orange coolant in the system when I drained it yesterday.

Pierre3

Hi guys, thanks for the help.

I think that I may have identified the possible problem which caused the over heating:

I have a real feeling that these two parts shouldn't look like this ! I have considered getting my special rubber glue out, to fix everything but I suspect that that solution may not actually work.

Now I have had to sell one of my children to buy a new water pump. Oh well, that will be less on food !

Pierre3.

Hi guys, thanks for all the information.

Blanco - I have ordered the heater pipe o-ring, as suggested. Good advice to do it at the same time.

Tanis - I have ordered a water pump by Dolz, supplied by Micksgarage. I was torn between ordering from Rimmer and getting an exchange pump, but the cost of a pump and a LR thermostat would be €220, plus delivery €40, plus VAT, courier admin charge, and duty when it arrives in Dublin. I would image that I would be looking at around €400 just to get the items here. Then my time fitting them.

I looked carefully at the workshop instructions and I am going to risk not using an LR water pump, and hope that it works OK. The thermostat is made by Gates, who do seem to have a good reputation.

What I would like to get some advice on, is the thermostat - the workshop manual says to replace a small o-ring which [I think] is connected to the turbo or air inlet tubes, but it doesn't give a part number.

I wonder whether anyone might have this part number, or part description ?

Also, are there any seals or gaskets required for the thermostat housing ? Again, if possible, the part numbers would be much appreciated.

Pierre3.

Hi Richard, now that you mention the thermostat I think that it probably won't be a bad idea to fit a new thermostat along with a water pump.

Thinking about why the overheating happened, and what happened afterwards really does suggest that there is no movement of coolant through the engine and radiator. And the fact that the temperature rose so quickly after parking up for nearly an hour would suggest that the coolant wasn't circulating, and there are kind of three main culprits stopping circulation, I guess - the water pump, the thermostat or the radiator. I know that I am leaving out the heaters but I am looking at the situation in a logical manner - what was it doing before; how did it happen at the time; and what happened after.

The temperature gauge had shown rather odd readings in the past, but I did think that this was fairly normal, as I have seen similar readings on other work vans and 4x4's, especially when loaded down with tools and gear. So I didn't really think a lot about it, as the engine never got especially hot.

Anyway, I think that having put it down here it sort of makes it easier to consider the problem, and the solution, rather than constantly just thinking about it, in one's mind. Well, in my mind anyway, as all there is in there seems to be a chicken sandwich and a copy of "Parade" magazine !!

Apart from Rimmer Bros's genuine LR water pumps, at around £270 what other water pumps can be recommended ? Just reading through loads of posts water pumps from the main online sellers don't seem to get great reviews - Meyle, or Hepu, or KS.

Pierre3.

Tanis, I am thinking along the same lines, I would have thought that the air flow through the radiator should have had some sort of cooling effect, but the temperature wouldn't go down even when I let the car drift down a hill with no throttle and doing maybe 50 mph. The temperature still rose, giving the impression that the coolant isn't moving through either the radiator or the engine block. That, in turn, would certainly seem like a non-working water pump, as you say.

I have just ordered a new pump, and I will fit it anyway, it can't do any harm. I can always fit an electric fan when everything has been put back together.

Pierre3.