I can't quite figure them out. I am beginning to wonder whether these clips could have come from elsewhere, but the one in the picture was definitely attached to one of the power steering pipes.
There are two strange looking brackets still fixed to the radiator support lugs, where the round holes that hold the shroud are. They seem to be metal fixing, but I will see if I can get a better look in the morning. Either way, I still don't see anything very explanatory in the RAVE manual, just a vague mention in the power steering section of the manual. I'll try the details that you have kindly given me.
Pierre3.
Thanks, Richard, I'll have a look tomorrow.
Pierre3.
In comparison to Richards battle all I have done is to fit new power steering pipes in my DHSE.
By the way, is it possible to lift the bonnet up past the normal position ? I had a 1983 Mercedes a year or two ago, and the bonnet on that car lifts to a first position, and then, if required, you can unclip two lugs on the hinges and the bonnet will rise up to almost vertical. Can this be done on the P38 ?
Pierre3.
Ah-ha ------------ after some careful study and taking a deep breath, and loosening stuff around the engine I have been able to replace the thermostat. Not only that, it did turn out easier that I expected. There is just enough room to extract the thermostat housing bolts and then wobble the housing and move it out sideways. The awkward part was getting the new 'stat back in, as the little pin thing has to sit in a little passage in the housing. Trying to keep the 'stat in position in the housing, and then trying to re-locate the housing back into position was a pain, as it kept moving, and it was almost impossible to see to locate it in position. As far as I know I have it correctly reseated !
Pierre3.
Hi guys, I wonder whether anyone knows where I can get some power steering pipe clips. I have just replaced the power steering pipes and the clips that seem to be located on the radiator brackets have disintegrated. I am attaching a couple of pictures.
If anybody knows the part number, or who has them in stock then I would grateful. Failing that I will have to start checking with the used parts guys !
Pierre3.
Hi Richard, when you look at the first picture you can see the black pipe that curves around the thermostat housing [black plastic with large pipe connected, just above A/C compressor]. The water pump is located just to the left of the belt tensioner wheel, and just to the right of the curved black pipe. More importantly, the thermostat, and to a lessor degree, the water pump are both obstructed by the silver coloured pipe running from left to right, in front of the engine block.
Looking at the picture below, you can get a clearer idea of the locations of the items, you can just see the yellow engine oil fill cap in the top left hand side of the picture. So the picture is looking straight down into the space where the radiator, the viscous fan and the fan shroud would be. What looks like a radiator is, in fact, the intercooler radiator which sits in front of the engine radiator. The engine radiator sits on the two lugs, at the bottom of the picture, where the two power steering pipes are.
In pictures 3 & 4 of my previous post [with 5 pictures] you can see the silver, non-flexible pipe connected to the air intake manifold, and if looking carefully, it will be seen that it is bolted to the black pipe that curves around the thermostat housing. It is not possible to move this pipe out of the way without stripping out the fan belt tensioner mechanism, and some of the electrical cable carrier stuff. Even then, the silver pipe is still connected somewhere down the side of the engine block, under the battery carrier.
So I suspect that the thermostat is not going to be a changeable item. I have a new one ordered but, as the overheating problem was obviously a disintegrated water pump, I think the thermostat will be going into the soare parts box, only to be fitted when the car goes into the garage for something major. It certainly doesn't appear, at this point, that, despite having the radiator and fan out, I will be able to get the thermostat out to be able to change it. I know that the temperature sits quite low, on the last point of the blue sector on the gauge, and never really gets to 12 o'clock on the gauge except in slow moving traffic, but it has always done this so I don't think that I need to be overly concerned. The mpg works out around the same that other people have suggested, about 20 - 25 mpg, and the motor has never shown any inclination to get very hot in the past so I think that the existing thermostat is doing its job.
Pierre3.
Richard, I have to disagree with you! Normally I would appreciate your advice, and I have always found it to be good but with this issue there is no way that you can get the radiator out without removing the fan and shround. The radiator has lugs on the bottom which hold the shroud, and when you lift up the shroud [maybe 2 inches] to clear the radiator lugs then you can't force the shround closer to the engine to allow the radiator to pull up and out. You have to take out the fan, with the shroud first.
Then, if you look at the pictures, you will notice a silver coloured pipe running across the front of the engine. I didn't see any mention of this pipe anywhere. It also runs right across the front of the thermostat, and I don't see how I can get the thermostat housing out without major de-construction. The silver pipe is bolted to the front end of the air intake manifold, but it is bent down and around, with another fixing under the intercooler pipe. As it is a solid, non-flexible pipe and it goes down the right hand side of the engine there is no way to remove it without taking everything off the front of the engine.
Again, if you look at the pictures I have one or two with the radiator sitting in place, and it shows how little room there is between the radiator and the engine. I think that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get the water pump out safely with the radiator sitting right in front of the water pump shaft.
If you don't release the power steering reservoir then it prevents you lifting the viscous fan and shround out of the gap. If you look you will see that the reservoir sits partially across the area where the right hand side of the shround is located, but you have to push the reservoir out of the way for the shroud the clear the radiator to inlet pipes. It would just not be possible to replace a water pump with the engine cover and shroud in place - physically impossible, because the silver metal pipe absolutely prevents you lifting anything out of that space.
Pierre3.
Lpgc, you are right - but I wasn't sure which coolant to use. And Richard is correct in mentioning a 50/50 mix if using concentrate.
What happened was that I was buying Exol Opticool Red, and my local guy has it in stock. So I ordered 10 litres as I have to do a full refill, except for any left in the heater matrix. On the Exol UK website there was listed Opticool Red 50/50 mix ready to use, and this is what I thought that I had ordered.
But when I went back to my local guy to recheck the order it turned out that there is also Opticool Red, but it is concentrate, and this is what I had ordered. So I rang him and asked which one was my order for, and it was for 10 litres of concentrate. Oooops.
As the order hasn't been sent out, though, he refunded me the amount for 5 litres and said to use it 50/50, as is recommended. He said that he didn't have the ready mixed Opticool in 5 litres, only 20 litres, which I would never use. So, I will get 5 litres of concentrate tomorrow in a nice red colour !
Just on the subject of changing the water pump, and the thermostat, I looked at quite a number of videos online, and read the RAVE manual and both places of information lack certain valuable information.
Firstly, you cannot remove the fan shroud without removing the viscous fan, because the shround is a complete piece around the fan. Even if you loosen the radiator you can't do it because there is no room at all to lift out the radiator, as there are lugs on the bottom of the radiator, which locate the shroud, and the shroud won't move back far enough to let the radiator come out on its own.
Whatever RAVE says you have to start at the beginning and disassemble everything. First, drain the coolant, then remove the various pipes and tubes around the radiator plus move the power steering reservoir and the windscreen washer filler. Then get your 32mm spanner in at the viscous fan nut and undo it Clockwise [ as you look at the front of the car]. When it comes undone then you can lift out the viscous fan complete with the shroud. The radiator can then be removed by undoing 2 nuts and bolts located at the bottom of te radiator, on either side. This lets you pull up the radiator.
Then you have plenty of room to access the front of the engine to replace the water pump and the thermostat. I don't believe that you could do these jobs without removing the viscous fan and the shroud, but the radiator could probably stay in place.
What isn't mentioned in RAVE, and completely buggers up the job, if you don't disassemble everything, is a solidly fixed metal tube than is connected to the front end of the air inlet manifold and goes across the front of te engine, just above the fan belt and then disappears down the left hand side of the engine. Without major work you can't move this pipe, I know, I tried very hard. But it blocks any access to the top of the water pump and makes access very difficult to the nut on the viscous fan.
Anyway, I just wrote it all down in a word document for myself, in case I need to do this job again. One really useful aside is that I may have an easy way to replace a slightly weeping power steering pipe as these two pipes also run from left to right under the radiator, and without the fan and radiator in place then there is plenty of room to change these two pipes.
Pierre3.
I was fairly pleased to actually see this, because, as you rightly say, I have a definite reason for the engine overheating. At least I don't have to go changing all the other bits like the viscous fan and the radiator. I will fit a new thermostat though.
On this issue - is there any reason not to use 100% orange OAT coolant, and not have to water it down ? I just happen to read other posts, elsewhere, saying that owners have used a 50/50 coolant water mix, but my experience has always been to use 100% coolant. There was orange coolant in the system when I drained it yesterday.
Pierre3
Hi guys, thanks for the help.
I think that I may have identified the possible problem which caused the over heating:
I have a real feeling that these two parts shouldn't look like this ! I have considered getting my special rubber glue out, to fix everything but I suspect that that solution may not actually work.
Now I have had to sell one of my children to buy a new water pump. Oh well, that will be less on food !
Pierre3.
Hi guys, thanks for all the information.
Blanco - I have ordered the heater pipe o-ring, as suggested. Good advice to do it at the same time.
Tanis - I have ordered a water pump by Dolz, supplied by Micksgarage. I was torn between ordering from Rimmer and getting an exchange pump, but the cost of a pump and a LR thermostat would be €220, plus delivery €40, plus VAT, courier admin charge, and duty when it arrives in Dublin. I would image that I would be looking at around €400 just to get the items here. Then my time fitting them.
I looked carefully at the workshop instructions and I am going to risk not using an LR water pump, and hope that it works OK. The thermostat is made by Gates, who do seem to have a good reputation.
What I would like to get some advice on, is the thermostat - the workshop manual says to replace a small o-ring which [I think] is connected to the turbo or air inlet tubes, but it doesn't give a part number.
I wonder whether anyone might have this part number, or part description ?
Also, are there any seals or gaskets required for the thermostat housing ? Again, if possible, the part numbers would be much appreciated.
Pierre3.
Hi Richard, now that you mention the thermostat I think that it probably won't be a bad idea to fit a new thermostat along with a water pump.
Thinking about why the overheating happened, and what happened afterwards really does suggest that there is no movement of coolant through the engine and radiator. And the fact that the temperature rose so quickly after parking up for nearly an hour would suggest that the coolant wasn't circulating, and there are kind of three main culprits stopping circulation, I guess - the water pump, the thermostat or the radiator. I know that I am leaving out the heaters but I am looking at the situation in a logical manner - what was it doing before; how did it happen at the time; and what happened after.
The temperature gauge had shown rather odd readings in the past, but I did think that this was fairly normal, as I have seen similar readings on other work vans and 4x4's, especially when loaded down with tools and gear. So I didn't really think a lot about it, as the engine never got especially hot.
Anyway, I think that having put it down here it sort of makes it easier to consider the problem, and the solution, rather than constantly just thinking about it, in one's mind. Well, in my mind anyway, as all there is in there seems to be a chicken sandwich and a copy of "Parade" magazine !!
Apart from Rimmer Bros's genuine LR water pumps, at around £270 what other water pumps can be recommended ? Just reading through loads of posts water pumps from the main online sellers don't seem to get great reviews - Meyle, or Hepu, or KS.
Pierre3.
Tanis, I am thinking along the same lines, I would have thought that the air flow through the radiator should have had some sort of cooling effect, but the temperature wouldn't go down even when I let the car drift down a hill with no throttle and doing maybe 50 mph. The temperature still rose, giving the impression that the coolant isn't moving through either the radiator or the engine block. That, in turn, would certainly seem like a non-working water pump, as you say.
I have just ordered a new pump, and I will fit it anyway, it can't do any harm. I can always fit an electric fan when everything has been put back together.
Pierre3.
Sloth, thanks for your reply. The suggestion about the gearbox cooler being the noise that I could hear with only the ignotion on could be right. It definitely sounded like a fan running from the front of the engine, and it wouldn't make sense, thinking about it, that it would be part of the viscous fan as the engine wasn't running at the time, and the fan wasn't turning. There was a bit of resistance in turning the fan blades with the ignition on and the engine showing overheat, but not much.
I couldn't freely spin the fan blades but I could turn them without very much resistance. There is more resistance this morning with the engine stone cold - but I can still turn it. I started the engine and tried to sto the fan blades turning by using a big, big, heavy set of gloves [welding gloves] but there was no way that I could slow or stop the rotation of the fan. I really don't think a rolled up newspaper would make any difference, either.
When I turned off the engine again, still cold, I could then turn the fan blades but with resistance.
I am just wondering whether I should just replace the viscous fan with a Rivotec electric fan kit as a first effort.
One thing that I wondered about - when the engine first showed "overheat" on the gauge I waited until the gauge dropped to between the last blue sector line and the 12 o'clock point, and then started driving it again, hoping that the airflow in the evening air [it was quite cold last night where I live] would have been enough to keep the engine cool, but it only did about 5 miles before the gauge was back up at the top of the gauge.
I thought that if the car was moving then there may have been enough airflow going through the radiator to travel a fair distance on a fairly level road, with no trafficand evening cool air. But this didn't happen. With the engine running the gauge started to rise almost immediately.
I am just hoping that there is not another issue such as the thermostat or the water pump. I could see the belts were running well, and, checking the condition of them, they look in good shape.
Finally, one thing that I noticed that you said - I didn't think that the diesel P38 had a fan in front of the radiator, as well as behind it. Am I right ?
Pierre3.
Hi, I am having a new problem with my 2001 DHSE - on a run from the country, yesterday, the engine decided to overheat. I had done a run the previous day of around 100 miles with no problems, and yesterday I had been running around a bit, again with no problems.
When I left for the journey home I got about 20 miles into the journey when I suddely noticed that I had no power, and when I looked down I saw the gauge right up in the red, and the red warning lights was on. I pulled in, opened the bonnet and, even though the gauge was right over in the red the fan wasn't running.
The header tank was filled to the correct level, having been checked the day before. So I sat for an hour to let the engine cool somewhat, but it only drove for about another five miles before the gauge, and the red warning light, came back on.
I did notice that, wth the engine off, but the ignition on that I could hear what sounded like the fan running but it wasn't turning, so I presume that this was the viscous fan unit running but not connecting to the actual fan. I wonder whether this makes sense, is it time to fit a new viscous fan unit ?
I checked this morning, with the car having been left overnight, and cold, and when I started the engine the fan was running as normal at start-up. However, when I tried to stop the fan itself I couldn't. When I checked the fan yesterday, when the engine was hot, there was resistance in turning the fan, but not very much as it turned fairly freely. But this morning it is locked in, and it would probably chop my fingers off if I tried to stop it.
It is strange because my engine temperature always sits at the last blue line on the gauge, and usually only went up to the 12 0'clock position in heavy traffic, and I remember, about three months ago, someone on the forum said the viscous fan could be dodgy, because the temperature gauge should always sit at 12 o'clock. My car has always sat just on the last "cold" sector since I got it nearly tree years ago.
Everything is very clean around the radiator and the hoses, to the extent that they look quite new, but the large finned viscous unit looks a fair bit corroded.
Any advice would be appreciated before I start to order replacement parts, I don't want to splash out £500 on an alloy radiator if the problem turns out to be the thermostat.
Pierre3.
KCR, that Japanese surround is pretty mad looking ! I keep having to go back and look at it, and I still don't know whether or not I like it.
The interior of my car, a 2001 DHSE, is Burr Walnut and Lightstone leather, and it is Monte Carlo blue. But I would say that the trim, Burr Walnut, is not genuine wood, it is printed ABS plastic, I think. It looks perfectly good, and it polishes up well, and is easy to keep clean.
The lower picture in my original post shows the main parts of the centre console, the switch pack and the rear ashtray flip-up cover, and the transmission tunnel side panels are all Walnut. So that just left the upper surround to be replaced. As you mentioned in your post, the side panel in ABS plastic are all one piece, held in place with two screws along the bottom.
I quite like talking to Charlie Nicholas, as you say he is quite a nice guy.
The one thing that I need to do now, is the machine polish my bonnet to remove some Sonax CC36 ceramic polish. The car has been treated, by me, all over, but the one mistake [well, maybe one of several] I made was to not thoroughly check the surface of the bonnet after using a clay bar. It was only after the second coating of ceramic polish dried that I realised that I could feel a very slight coarseness across the surface of the paint. I have to use a polishing machine that I have, to take off the ceramic finish 🤣 . Oh well, at least the rest of the car is good.
Pierre3.
9
I have used the Aerotwin blades for a good number of years, and I have always found them to be very good. The ones on my car have been on for 18 months so far, and are still working well.
The only car that I have bought [and still buy] proprietary wipers for, is my Lexus IS 300h, because I have tried a couple of different ones from Halfords and despite their listings none of them are correct.
Pierre3.
Interesting information in your post, Leolito. I was hoping that the news might have been better !!
I have got a sat nav style console surround from Charles Nicholas, at CN4X4SSS. I made sure to ensure that all the lugs are present as most of them on Fleabay usually have one or two lugs missing. He did get back to me to say that he had a couple of storage bins that fit in place of the sat nav, but I had already been in touch with British Parts of Utah, who have a couple of new ones in stock, and I have bought one of these. Hopefully, the spring washer thingies will be included.
I am replacing my black surround because [a] the rest of my console and switch pack panel are all walnut; and [b] the surface of the black panel has gone a bit sticky and can't be cleaned properly. It's like polish has broken down the surface, making it tacky.
So I will need to remove and refit the clock and the air sensor.
Do you happen to know whether the two items are on detachable plugs ? At least, if I can just remove my current surround with the clock and air sensor still in place then I can work on it in the kitchen [with either a cup of tea - or a bottle of gin].
I am not going to put anything different into the sat nav space as I already have a fold-away DAB radio which works very well. Fitting the sat nav storage box means that I don't need the cover that runs the full width from the air sensor, under the clock, which is a relief.
I think I know exactly what the spring washer thingies are, I have seen them in lots of plastic items such are toys and computer parts. They are a PITA !
If the surround is removed from the car is it any easier to dismantle the bits that I need ?
Lastly, send Charles Nicholas a text message [or ring him] or swnd a Whatsapp message to see if he has any LHD surrounds. I'm sure that I saw some for sale on Pic-clic, for sale in Italy, when I was looking for a good, undamaged RHD one. I will send a PM with Charles's details.
Pierre3.
I think that I may have struck lucky. I have come across a US website who say that they have some used ones in stock, the correct ones for the sat nav centre console upper surround. I am waiting for an answer from them to confirm this, which looks like I may be in luck. At least, I can then buy one of the fairly numerous sat nav upper surrounds that are for sale on various P38 breakers ebay sites in the UK.
Again, thanks for the information that you gave me, Richard.
Pierre3.
Hi Richard, thanks a lot for posting this information. It gives me a decent bit of info to follow. I didn't know the correct description for the parts ! Now, at least I can do a trawl through the internet and see what I can find.
Two years ago I actually found a brand new, old stock, window switch pack front. It was a bit pricey but it was very good nick.
Pierre3.