Having started with a Willys jeep and love of cross country when 17 and later two 'classics' I would never fit side steps to my P38. Bull bars might be of use in Spain but again I would not clutter up a P38 with these, It all looks very smart I admit but is definitely on the chelsea tractor side of the fence. Here in Spain in the mountains it is nigh on impossible to keep the fairly modest exterior attachments like mud flaps etc in place and if you use a P38 in its off road mode they are all a liability. I think the P38 is the last real recognizable Range Rover and if you look in the showrooms some of the modern ones with a 'Range Rover' plaque on don't even have 4 wheel drive. Not much 'Ranging' going on there. What is the world coming to ??

Its beyond me but it made life pretty difficult at times - having your car immobilised, sometimes miles from home and having to have it recovered to a suitable garage all for the sake of some electronic wizardry caused some major delays and expenses. Sad to hear it still happens but at least you know now there is a way around the problem !

Talking of locks and things it might amuse you to hear of the time I was filling up with petrol in Madrid, on a very hot August day, on my way to Switzerland with six border collie puppies bouncing around in the P38, windows shut, key in the ignition when suddenly there was a click and one of the little blighters had jumped on a door lock button. Potential major disaster. I finished filling the tank, walked back to the office to pay and explain that I could not move the car. My Spanish is pretty useless but without saying a word, the old garage man turned round and reached for a wire coat hangar on the wall behind him, obviously kept for such situations, I took this and managed after some fiddling to get between the rubber and glass and pull up the button - six happy bouncing puppies and a very relieved P38 owner .............. perhaps one should have a coat hangar taped out of sight under the wing or somewhere ? ........

Keys, Locks and remotes ! I don't claim to understand what I'm going to say but it might be of interest. In the early days of my P38 Gems/Lpg it kept suffering a strange happening where the remote became inop and no way car would start. This finally happened in Switzerland on the morning when car loaded and ready for long drive down to S Spain. Called my breakdown insurance and they came and took the RR to the big Range Rover Heaven Garage in Bern - you know huge glass windows, marble floors and salesmen seated at lone desk in middle of wonderful display of RR's that seemed years later than my P38. When I went in to collect the car I was led away from the smart sales area to a reception desk where an 'engineering type' in a spotless white coat holding a clipboard told me they had reset something and it was all back to normal. But then I discovered that 'normal' meant that some random magical radio signals that emanated from police cars, roadside equipment and god knows where could completely immobilise my P38. (This had happened to a BMW on the autobahn they said and it only restarted when it was moved) The answer, the clever Swiss guy said was to reset something in the ECU/system that cancelled the remote working but still allowed normal key locking and starting. Yes I said - for gods sake do it. No regrets - never had the problem again. When I took it to James French near Oxford for some problem they were mystified as to what the clever Swiss had done and said they were not aware how to do this. I have enough problems without going through the mysteries of remotes - quite happy to just use the key as normal. Do glance at my recent post on 'Opening time' - LPG if you can give any advice on my current problems - chris

By the way - no doubt the 'old timers' will know this but I found the GEMS by Poole pdf. really good for GEMS Range Rovers even though it is aimed at Morgans - good pictures to find parts and good descriptions - it might help those with GEMs Range Rovers - http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/GEMS/GEMSbyPoole.pdf

Did my test drive - definitely a slight improvement but the basic problem that I have had for a year is still there - (on both LPG and petrol) best described by this description I found on another forum - USA owner - > Our rover started sputtering/falters but only under certain conditions. Motor will idle fine and when gas peddle is pressed will rev up fine too. The problem comes when engine is under a load. It is very hard to get moving due to sputtering and stalling, but once it is moving it seems to do ok at a steady speed. but upon accelerating it sputters/falters again, and does the same thing up small hills as well. (But sometimes 'breaks free' and for a short period 200 m performs ok)

I changed the TPS and reset everything again - another test drive and still the same problem - did a diagnostic and got P0171 System too lean Bank A
Now the advice most given is problem with MAF or 'input air system leak' but it then extends into almost every sensor you can name - O2 sensors etc etc. I cleaned the idle air control valve - tried cleaning the MAF recently (last year was full of air filter paper bits that the rats had mad e a home in - wondering if there is still some in there round the bend) and have a crankshaft speed sensor waiting to replace when I'm brave enough to struggle under the car on my hillside track. I will try pulling leads/plugs (both new) to see if there is a coil problem. I have an old coil set so can substitute one of the four if necessary. I have a new engine coolant sensor to put on but my temp gauge on dash appears correct and is this also fed to the ECU ? or is there another eng coolant temp sensor for the ECU If anyone has a spare GEMS 4.0 MAF to sell I would be grateful. I can't be sure that mine is faulty so don't want to spend a fortune on it. I know that it is almost impossible to sort this unless one has ones hands on it but any wise words gratefully received ...........chris

I've only recently returned to the forum and was sad to hear about Orangebean. He contributed so much to solving my problems and it was so reassuring to know that he was always there - just wish we could really do something about the cancer problem - do have a look at this - wonderful if it could help someone -
Rod Peterson (https://youtu.be/KnEQFno794s)
Chris

Great stuff - reposioned TPS to normal - reset adaptives (not able to see voltages etc) Started engine - immediately idled as normal (bit low perhaps) so made some progress after nearly a year ! Now I remember you saying that it should be run on petrol for a good period to reset adaptives and now the rain has stopped am looking forward to a test drive - just got to get the dogs in first ...........thanks

Thanks gilbert - your experience I know comes from dealing with these problems over the years and no doubt you learn from other peoples problems so it might help to tell you that after the rats demolished my harness I drove 50-60 miles not realising anything was wrong until I noticed that the LPG was all off. I repaired/resoldered the harness and thought everything was ok. Perhaps during that time of driving it changed other adaptives which led to my current problem of poor acceleration and lack of power (it fails to change gear down under load and engine slows) This is common to LPG and Petrol. There are moments where it accelerates and goes ok so it seems an intermittent fault. Popping out to reset adaptives now - just started to rain after 3 months !!

Hi Gilbert - sorry to bore you with this again - you have all been so helpful but do you remember I put the wrong TPS on in case the original had a fault (even though idle was perfect) but it was completely wrong and it threw the idle out to 1500+ . So I put back the original which then carried on the high idle problem which I cured with your help/advice about elongating the holes.
Now that I can reset the adaptive values with my new toy do you think I should reposition the TPS to its normal original position before resetting adaptives ? Might it pick up the right settings and go back to normal ? Value your advice - chris

Hi GilbertD - sorry if on wrong topic but not sure how to work the system-just want to ask if you have any ideas about what throws up the P1179 AMFR correction at its maximum negative value (Driving Cycle C) fault and where to look. I reset the fault - went for a drive - tested again and it is not showing any GEMS faults - perhaps a slight improvement in performance. There is a place in the prog to reset the values of the GEMS settings stored in the ECU - presumably so it can set up all its parameters again - do you think I should do this - Chris

You may remember that I bored you all with problems with my LPG (more or less sorted) and also odd performance problems (no acceleration on hills and under load) but did I mention that this was intermittent and sometimes seemed ok - I was in the process of changing sensors but have not done the crankshaft one yet. Anyway, a couple of things - perhaps not strictly right for the forum (not good at finding my way to the right one). Here in Spain they are slowly increasing the number of LPG garages - they used to be spaced out about 80 to 200 miles and my nearest was at Malaga 40 miles away from home. (I used to be able to just about make the UK journey through Spain on LPG). Recently a new one (Repsol) appeared only 12 miles away but the price has risen slowly to 70 euro cents a liter. These are not new stations - just old stations fitted with LPG tanks. I was not able to register the P38 on the Spain system because their MOT/ITV does not recognise any LPG install not done as a recent 'factory fit' - their own) even though mine was done by a proper installer in UK. An increasing number of Taxis and Ambulances here are on LPG. I have finally bought Storey Wilson's EAS v4 software and lead for my Windows laptop and P38. It cost about £150 and is a download of software and he sends a special OBD/USB lead. Finally got it set up and working yesterday. I know you guys have better gadgets but I didn't have the extra money for the Nanocoms etc. Anyway, It seems to work quite well and reads out the faults and the code numbers and allows you to reset them. It does not allow one to reset the idle speed which was one of the things I messed up when I put the wrong TPS on. Although strangely, it must be adaptive somewhere otherwise when I put the old one back on which had been ok the idle did not return to normal. Well, apart from a million HEVAC faults the one significant one on GEMS was P1179 AMFR correction at its maximum negative value (Driving Cycle C) and I see comments on the web that this may be linked with the MAF. I have cleaned it and reset - keen to see what happens now. Any help much appreciated !
The EAS v4 can be seen at http://www.rswsolutions.com - I can tell more about it when I've had more use of it.

Show off ! Well you are welcome here anytime but you'll need a pickaxe to get through the muck on my engine before any 'cleaning' can take place.......and then I'd be scared of whats underneath anyway.....

Just for the record have given up on the 'Westminster'. Was excited at having the 1000 euros they asked for accepted and started making plans but was then gazumped by someone later in the day so upped my offer to 2000 which was accepted. Drove and tested car - ran well - small problems - no behind dash light so can't see true mileage done - Air con not working and other minor things. But, forgot to check the vin and after much thought about the 'Westminster' labels decided against going ahead with it. It looks like a standard sort of 4.6 HSE with beige interior and 'special order' bolt on 'Westminster' badge on tail gate and door sills - strange.
So it is back to fixing the trusty 4.0 P38 and I hope it doesn't get offended at my lack of faith in it !!

Thanks Gilbert - makes sense - going down to look but won't be able to open bonnet so will have to make do with windscreen vin !

Hi Orange and Gilbert - despite finding the RR in good condition, drives and handles well (shows up the poor running of my P38) apart from minor things like instrument panel lights out and headlining, I'm a bit worried about this 'Westminster' thing. Having reread your excellent help about specs for Westminster there seems to be some big oddities like colours and interior and unless there was some special private export order that we don't know about it does not make sense. Also, I've been assuming its 4.6 which is not done for Westminster as you say. (It may be 4.0) Going to pop down and check the vin and ask at the garage where they had the head off for skimming when they had leaks etc . Will value your help to check it out - could it be a 'ringer' as you say Orange and do people rebuild/change lots of bits to pass it off ? Surely, if it was done late in its life there would not be much money in it. Perhaps most of the body is westminster and interior and other bits rebuilt ? Has right wheels and those name plates on door sills

Well Gilbert it seems pretty sound and Terri is selling because they have been overwhelmed with high running costs and low pensions ! Little signs are pointers to the reasonably low mileage but as is usual with these wonderful Rovers they are let down by crappy bits like roof linings etc - you will know what I mean. Also - as you know my existing LPG system better than me - are you saying that the new thor fake westminster would need the identical system ? If so, and I fitted it or got a good willed holiday seeker to cast an eye over my efforts in between soaking sun and cerveza, I could remove enough to get it through the MOT/ITV in a year and 4 months time. The mot /itv guys are switched on but work on a production line and if enough was missing I don't think they would bother or notice ! Surely one can just disconnect the plugs on gas injector stuff and block up holes to get by ? What do you think ?

Well folks - all is not quite as hoped. - got a call from Terri saying they couldn't let it go at the agreed price of 1000 euros - think she had been got at by her garage who know about its true value and I have had to raise it to 2000 euros or lose it. Bit annoyed because we had an agreement but swiss miss has come up with extra funds so we are going ahead. I think it is still a sound buy at that. Had a drive - goes perfectly - but has annoying little things wrong which I think I can fix myself. You will hear from me for ever trying to fix them !! It seems to be a Westminster because most things are right about it - including the writing in the door sills - instead of Range Rover. I forgot to get the vin ! The car was sold in Saudi Arabia as an export to an Irishman who worked there and eventually brought it back to Spain. That might explain the differences to spec. Ever more to do !

By the way - the original price they wanted was €3000 which was probably realistic for condition and year but here in Spain few people are well off and driving top cars and the majority are pretty average to poor and second hand thirsty cars like the RR are just not on their shopping list. So one can make allowance for the variation in price and I don't think it is a reflection on its condition for £950. Anyway, I'm going to find out aren't I !!

Thanks for all that Gilbert - I'm not bothered whether it is a Westminster or not - only concerned in case it has been through some major changes/accident or unknowns. I'm happy to take it as seen providing what one sees is ok. The badge thing is odd - could simply be a replacement tail gate due to accident !? Note that you point out no RR badge. Lots to think about !

Thanks Orange - got me worried now ! I trust Terri and husband - know them well so if anything is wrong it will be before their time. I'm looking at their bills tonight which I am sure are genuine. Will take pics if the car is back with them because they put it down on the coast road with 'for sale' on. I hope it hasn't got the 17 speakers in - I mean what do you need that many for .........drive the dogs mad !
This by the way looks like a 'correct' Westminster but I don't see a centre dashboard speaker unless disguised. I see they have Westminster written on the door sill too ! https://youtu.be/3iXZsPgVML0

And rough cost if I try and LPG it ?