That was something they managed to make far too complicated where you only got the exception if you drove a particular car fitted with a specific LPG system. Unlike the recently introduced French system where my LPG fuelled Range Rover has been issued with a Class 1 vignette, the same as a small engined, Euro 6, petrol car. Had it been running on petrol it would be Class 3, a Euro 6 diesel is Class 4, a Euro 5 diesel is Class 5 and any earlier diesel doesn't get one at all so can't go into Paris, Lyon and Grenoble. Now that is what you call sensible, anything running on LPG or CNG is treated as only one level down from an EV or hybrid.

An EV would be no good to me at all. I have a works van, supplied by a Government Department, that is a stinky diesel, costs the taxpayer £10.40 two or three days a week when I have to go into the congestion charge zone but does between 150 and 200 miles a day. How could I do that, and still get a days work done, in an EV? For my own car, I'm currently the best part of 1,000 miles south of home. While I may do the odd short journey, could I really justify having an EV to go and do the shopping when the rest of the time (every other weekend at the moment) I'm doing anything between 1,000 and 2,000 miles.

I've got mine set to changeover at 1,200 rpm and 1 second changeover. Admittedly it's a different system but there's nothing to stop you trying the same. On mine, I start the engine, the revs rise as it fires and it changes over as the revs drop down again.

For quite a number of years, Vauxhall would supply a car ready fitted with an LPG system, straight from the showroom and with full manufacturers warranty. Many owners were perfectly happy with these and had no problems. The problems came much later, by which time the one employee at the main dealers who had been on the course and knew how to service the gas system had left or retired, nobody else knew anything about it and it never got serviced. The fact that many of these systems continued to run quite happily for 100-150,000 miles with no maintenance whatsoever is testament to the fact that a properly installed LPG system is as, if not more, reliable than a petrol or diesel fuel system. The problem is that once these cars did start to suffer problems (due entirely to the lack of maintenance), coupled with the dire standards of many aftermarket systems, the old wives tales got around about how unreliable LPG systems are and demand fell until Vauxhall decided to drop the option.

Vauxhall weren't alone, Ford, LDV and Mitsubishi (and Volvo too I believe) all also offered an LPG option. All of them did the same as Vauxhall had done though and rather than fit a readily available retrofit kit that would be understood and could be serviced by just about anyone in the LPG trade, they went to a manufacturer and had a bespoke system designed specifically for them. The problems then came because information and spares for the systems were extremely difficult to obtain. The biggest threat to LPG conversions is direct injection engines which are far more difficult to convert than conventional port injection engines.

It may not start too easily on gas when hot, or if it does will almost certainly crank for longer. Try it but if it doesn't start up immediately, then leave it starting on petrol but change the changeover delay to as short a time as the software will allow.

Aragorn wrote:

If your barreling up and down a motorway doing hundreds of miles, then sure diesel is still the best option.

Diesel is never the best option. If you are doing serious mileage, LPG is by far and away the best. Vastly cleaner than diesel and cheaper too.

Hydrogen could be used relatively easily in an ICE.. It has an Octane rating of >130 so could allow an engine to be tuned to take advantage of that and it's stoichiometric ratio should mean decent economy. For petrol and diesel it is around 14 parts air to one part fuel (by weight) and for LPG it is 15.5 but for hydrogen it is 34 parts air to one part hydrogen. Admittedly as this is by weight and Hydrogen is lighter than air, that would require a greater volume but would still make it viable. With a boiling point of -253 degrees C it couldn't be stored as a liquid but then neither can Methane and CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) is used as a fuel in conventional ICE engines operated by some fleets in the UK and is common for consumer use in Italy. CNG stores the fuel in a purpose made tank at around 100 bar. As far producing it, two electrodes in water and there it is, it is as close as we are ever likely to get to running a car on water.

super4 wrote:

I see on the Zavoli Tech Man software there is an error page which I never reached that includes Gas injectors - should I do this again and see if there is anything showing ?

All that can show is and electrical problem, if an injector is open or short circuit, not whether or not there is any gas flowing through it or if it is at the correct pressure.

Matrix injectors are probably the most reliable you can get (which is why they are so damn expensive!) so unless you have been filling it with really poor quality gas and have no filters in there, it is unlikely they will need anything doing to them. They wouldn't cause a drop in pressure anyway, just rough running. The cable going into the block is the feed to the internal solenoids to open the injectors when required. The pressure is before it gets that far. For a leak to be sufficient for you to see a drop in pressure, it would need to be very big, not just a few bubbles. If you can hear gas leaking out when you move the injector block, look at the larger feed pipe rather than the small output pipes. I suspect all your hoses have gone hard with age so aren't going to be good. If I were you I'd start by getting a replacement pressure sensor (assuming you have an 013) and some lengths of replacement hose and clips for it. While changing them you'll probably find the cause of the fault anyway.

Have a look at the number on it. If it is an 013, replace it with the later 025 (and cable adapter) as it will almost certainly be dead. There won't be any pressure in the 4 small pipes from the Matrix injector blocks to the inlet manifold. You should have vapour at 1.1 bar from the reducer to the injector block and the 4 small pipes just go to nozzles fitted in the inlet manifold. If you get a his when you move the injector block, then it is in the feed to the block not in the 4 pipes after it. The injector block is just 4 small solenoid valves that open to squirt gas in to each cylinder.

With a front axle that is flopping from side to side and a busted anti roll bar drop link, I'm surprised you ever managed to get it to drive in a straight line. I think you are going to notice the difference when you put it back together.

Huh? I'll stick to cars and radio I think. That went completely over my head......

To echo what Simon said, and he is a full time LPG installer after all, do not use petrol hose for LPG, it will dissolve it. You must use the proper stuff. Not sure what you mean by matrix and injectors? The injectors are Matrix, that's the brand. There's two different sections to the gas system, the liquid phase, the tank, tank solenoid, fuel line, filter, shut off valve and the first stage of the reducer. This lot all contain gas as a liquid at around 10 bar pressure (roughly 140 psi). Then you have the vapour side, that's the other half of the reducer, a vapour filter (maybe) and the injectors. This lot is full of vapour which, according to your software, is at 1.1 bar. Your software was showing a drop in vapour pressure as the revs went up, the system detects this drop in pressure and assumes you have run out of gas so switches back to petrol. What you need to find out is why is the pressure dropping, Is it because only a limited amount of gas is getting to the reducer, so a problem on the liquid side or is it because there is a leak on the vapour side so there's not enough gas to run the engine and feed the leak. Doubtful I'd say or you would smell a leak that big.

OK Marty, as I've got a broadband connection with a fixed IP address, how do I do it?

Funny you mentioned Hydrogen, I found a filling station at a Sainsbury's in London somewhere. If it's the one I think it was (I stop at so many to pick up something to eat or drink when I'm out and about at work), it's on the A5 at Hendon, just off the North Circular. In theory, a conventional LPG system would allow a car to be run on Hydrogen with the right tank and reducer, it's not that much different to CNG.

Yes, took me ages to do it too as it kept failing but did it eventually. It kept falling over when trying to contact Catpcha, I suspect from the number of people all trying to do the same thing.

I've already downloaded all my pictures from Photobucket and uploaded them to Imgur instead. On some of the more recent threads I've edited the post and changed the image location. I'll probably do the same to some of the older threads when I get time as you never know when someone might do a search. I also closed my account on Photobucket and when it asks for a reason why, I told them.....

I did consider hosting them myself as I've got a couple of spare computers and a broadband connection with a fixed IP address but had absolutely no idea how to do it.

One thing you could try to confirm it, is to slacken off the outlet from the filter to the reducer and try getting it to switch over. If you get a blast of gas then both solenoids are opening and allowing it through but I suspect you won't.

The filter is just a filter so you should be able to blow through it. A cracked coil on the solenoid is a sure sign it has gone internally short circuit and is not at all well. It may still be capable of doing something but not a lot. Best bet is going to be to replace the filter/shut off valve complete.

The solenoid has to be energised for it to open but if you are doing that and you still can't blow through it, there's your problem. Replacement can be got from here http://tinleytech.co.uk/product-category/lpg-parts/filtershut-off/lpg-shut-off-valve/?widget_search=yes

Little nut that holds the coil in place. Take that off, slide the coil off and you will see a hex at the base of the brass bit that the col fits over. The plunger is inside that. To remove the filter, you undo the bolt in the middle of the shiny plate and the filter element is under that. With both removed you will be able to clean it all out. Another word of advice, wear latex gloves. Anything that is in there will be what is known as Heavy Ends. It is a lubricant that is suspended in the liquefied gas and is there to lubricate the delivery pumps. It is a sort of dark brown gloopy stuff and absolutely stinks. If you get it on your hands you will still be able to smell it a week later.

DO NOT just slacken off the bolt holding the plate without releasing the gas pressure first. The plate may survive but the noise will make you think someone has just fired a shotgun at you. I did it on my first LPG car (an old Saab) and I must have jumped 2 feet in the air when the seal on the O ring let go. With the ignition switched off, slacken off the inlet union to allow the gas in the pipe to escape first so there is no pressure left in there.

One other possibility is that you've clouted the pipe between the tank and front end and squashed it flat so it restricts the amount of gas that can get through.