Hi guys, sorry for the delay in getting back to this. As has been pointed out many times - don't fix every problem as the moment that you do this you will immediately run into more trouble. Well, that's what happened. I had finished putting all the trim bits back together, and I was sitting in the car and decided to put the windows down to air the car. So, the rear passenger one wouldn't go down, and then the passenger front went down, but wouldn't come back up up - bol++++s !!!!

Fortunately, I had a repaired switchpack, from Marty, which I had not used and when I swapped them over I was back in business. So, looking good, until I tried to open the drivers door and the inner handle went "boing" and I couldn't get out. Roll down the window and open the door from the outside, I bet that the string in the door has broken !!!! To be honest, I haven't even bothered looking, I just otdered a new one from Rimmers and I 'll wait until it arrives.

While I was working on the sunroof, trying to get the glass to operate properly I was standing on the side-step, and, having been in and out standing on it, it suddenly decided that it had had enough and, again, "boing", I was standing on the ground and the step was hanging down like a big flap door. More bol***s !!!!. The box section part of the step has rusted through. Fortunately, my son is in the automatic gate business so he has a welder and metal tubes, box section etc. He is going to call around and weld in new pieces.

Thanks for the comments from karlos01 and JLImmelman. I haven't taken the vehicle out yet so I don't know how much, if any, difference the insulation will make as it isn't a very big space, just the single thickness sections between the strengthening bars. I have a suspicion that I would really have to do the doors and the boot area inside panels as well to see a big difference but that is a lot of work which I just don't need.

dave3d, I ordered only 2 square meters roll – 4.0m long x 50cm wide, [ https://www.soundinsulation.ie/product/deadsound-car-sound-deadening-door-pack/ ], and I used just under half of it. Bearing in mind that I didn't have to do anything where the sunroof cassette is. I did the rear roof sections between the strengtheners and the rear pillars by the tailgate door. But - I wouldn't class myself as an expert, but I hope that I could give some advice to anyone doing this job. I "uhmmmed and ah-ed" about it for two months until [a] I couldn't get anyone local to me to do it, and [b] I really need the motor to be presentable when the lockdown lets us travel, as I need to go to Scotland to see my daughter. The only answer was - do it myself.

Harv, I did do the sunshade, and I did it the long way - by taking out the sunroof cassette. I really didn't want to bugger up te sunshade panel or the small clips that sit on the edge. I read a few posts by some bloke called ToadhallRR or something like that, who reckons you can take the sunshade out and put it back, with the clips, and all without taking out the cassette. I don't believe this is possible as the two rear clips are right under a strengthening bar which is at the back of the sunroof opening. I did notice that he later admitted that he was wrong and the cassette has to come out.

If you have the headlining panel out it is, as has been said elsewhere, quite straightforward and easy to take out the cassette, it's just eight bolts. I did it on my own, but I needed help to put it back as I had to hold it up while Madame fitted the two bolts on either side and in the centre of the cassette. These held it in place for me to refit all the other bolts.

The sunshade is plastic, I thought that it was metal, and I scrubbed it with a wire brush to remove any old foam, then I soaked it in White Spirits, to soften any adhesive, and used a paint scraper to shift any residue, finally washed it down with warm water - and then sanded it with 180 grit wet and dry sandpaper to give a surface for the new adhesive to stick to. I put a good amount of adhesive on both sides of the sunshade, paying particular attention to the rear side edges, which are very narrow, to make sure that the material sticks firmly and won't try to peel back when the sunshade is put back in position. I was also very particular in putting back those dodgy spring clips, again making sure that they sat in the right position when the sunshade is repositioned into the track in the cassette.

Incidentally, I found that to remove and replace the sunshade you put one hand under the panel and one hand on one side, where the track is, and gently push up until the panel bends and pops out of the track at the front. The back comes out without a problem, but when you look at the panel you will see a kind of lug on the front edge of the panel which keeps the panel firmly located in the track. This is why you need to bend the sunshade panel quite a bit, for it to pop out. Easy when you do it, but a bit disconcerting when you haven't !!

dave3d, just reading your posts - I think that you may have enough stuff to do the roof. The four small panels are only about 14 in x 6 in. I can't remember the size of the full width ones but I think they were about 48 in x 8 in, - I think !!

karlos01, if, like me, you are a bit reluctant don't be. Having read all the posts by other guys on here I did find it a pretty easy job. Just be very careful and take real care of the things like the seatbelt adjuster covers. As has been mentioned before they break easily so try to make sure that you have trim removal tools - don't used screwdrivers if possible as they will break. I was lucky, none of mine did. Other things to watch for are the sun visor retaining clips. They have a small cover over a screw, and that little cover will probably break when you lever it down, but I think that this is unavoidable. I haven't bothered putting mine back.

Pierre3.

So, I thought that I would post a couple of pictures of the end result of the re-upholstering of the headling panel. I am quite pleased with it, considering as it is the first time that I have tried this. I would be more confident if I was doing it again, there are a couple of places that I would be more careful with such as the grab handle insets.

I would say, however, this took three days, and at that I didn't need to wire-brush the fibreglass roof panel as someone had previously attached new fabric but it didn't have a foam back, and I think that it may have been a bit too heavy for a headling. The first day was stripping out all the trim pieces, the roof items, all without beaking any plastic pieces, and removing the sunroof cassette.

The second day was measuring up, checking and double checking the fitting, re-upholstering the sunshade panel, and finally re-upholstering the headlining panel itself. A lot of careful trimming and snipping, to get all the edge turn-overs right. Then leave somewhere warm to ensure everything has stuck properly.

The third day was refitting everything, making sure that all the fittings went back correctly. As I mentioned earlier, the grab-handle insets were a bit of a nuisance because the edges of the inset holes were a bit seperated caused by the original headlining pulling the edges apart when being removed, I would guess.

Pierre3.

The third picture is of the shorter fastener used, as SamH, says, for things like the trim joinings like those behind and under the back seats, above the wheel arch. Also along the rear boot area plastic trim, beside the rear windows where they join the side panel where the wheelwell and the Harmon Kardon hi-fi system is fitted.

If anyone might know where I can get any of these fasteners I would be grateful if you could maybe PM me ? Either Lightstone or Beige would be OK. A front passenger handle with all the bits and pieces is also required.

Pierre3.

Thanks Richard. I posted the thread and then went to get a cup of tea. When I came back I saw the page was still open on my laptop and thought, therefore, that I hadn't posted the thread - so I did it again !!!

I can't see a "Bin" symbol anywhere so I am not sure that I can delete a thread when already posted.

Pierre3.

I wonder if anyone knows how to delete a topic which I duplicated by mistake ?

Pierre3.

I wonder whether anyone is breaking a P38 with either Beige or Lightstone trim ?

I am looking for some trim fasteners which are hard to find nowadays.
This fastener has a slot in the head:

The one below is a short trim fastener, one that joins two panels, stuff like that:

I would also like to find a front grab handle, complete with the screws, the screw cover caps and with the little metal inserts where the screws fit through the handle mounting holes.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pierre3.

Hi, I used 2.3mm thick, and is designed specially for vehicle use.

I will be interested to see whether the amount that I have fitted will make much difference. I hope that it will make things a little bit quieter !!

Pierre3.

If I am correct you can only use vehicles with a manual gearbox. When I looked at the EV Conversions [or whatever they are called] they only use manuals. I seem to remember emailing them, for the crack, and they said that they couldn't do an auto P38.

I think that the reason is that the gearbox, in a manual, is locked into gear, maybe 3rd and the huge torque of the motor just drives the vehicle forward.

I don't know much about these conversions, but there are a lot of ev conversions in the States, as you can buy all the parts of the shelf over there.

Pierre3.

Hi guys, thanks for the further information.

I am going to try another method - starting with the glass manually set in the correct closed position press the "Open" switch, which should then run the glass to the fully open position. Then close the glass and set that point. Then open to the "Tilt" position, keep the switch pressed, and finally, press the "Close" switch and hope that the glass closes at the correct place !!!

I put a few soundproofing pads in the roof, last week, just to see if it makes any difference. I just filled in the spaces on the actual vehicle roof so it will be interesting whether it makes any difference. I hadn't realised how heavy the soundproofing stuff is, it weighs a ton, and I could imagine that if you did the doors and the boot area, etc. etc., you would add a LOT of weight to the vehicle.

I also did the two "D" pillars, the ones at the very back.

Pierre3.

I have been reading lots of posts from different RR or LR forums and there are some detailed descriptions which involve more than just running the glass backwards and then forwards. I think that the method of opening the roof, then holding the switch for 5 seconds, closing the roof and holding the switch for 5 seconds, raise to tilt position and hold the switch for 5 seconds, and finally back down, works provided nothing has been changed or removed.

I suspect that once you take out the cassette and then refit it then there is a more complicated method in resetting the parameters of the motor.

I will just have to keep reading, and trying different methods of setting the motor parameters. There is definitely some connection to manually setting the glass in a start position after running the motor backwards and forwards while not connected to the drive cables.

Pierre3.

I am afraid that I have to agree with Symes. I used to go to Oulton Park with my Old Man back in the mid-sixties and I used to love all forms of motor racing. I was even at one of the last Formula 1 races at the Nurburing before it closed.

Now I only have a passing interest in Rallying, I occasionaly look up to see who has won the big rallies, but, since Michael Schumachers' accident, I have no interest in F1 anymore. When it was being shown on C4 I would always watch it, but now ..................................

Pierre3.

Thanks for the replies.

I tried again today to get the sunroof to set correctly, but, although I go through the routine, I still have the "Sunroof open" when I take out the ignition key.

Today, I went through the complete job - manually winding the glass fully open and then rewinding it fully closed. Run the motor backwards and forwards for about 20/30 seconds in each direction, first in the "Open" direction and then in the "Close" direction.

Reconnect the motor and then go through the setting cycle. At each point hold the switch down for a further 5 seconds. But when I test the operation of the sunroof it is kind of working correctly, in that the one press operation works and the sunroof opens and closes but when I take out the key and close the driver's door I still get the "Door open" message.

The motor definitely seems to rum correctly. It doesn't jump or stutter, or anything, when it operates. When I do the setting cycle and I hold down the switch for 5 seconds I can hear the motor click, which I presume to be the motor registering the position.

My big, big, big problem is - I don't know how the motor knows where the "Neutral" or "Closed" position is. I know that I keep asking this without, unfortunately, ever getting an answer, but surely there must be a "0" or "Start" position for the glass to be in before being operated.

There are a lot of generalisations regarding setting the sunroof and nowhere does anyone state where the glass has to be at the very beginning. Does the roof need to be in the fully open position first, or the fully closed position ?

I can't see that if the reset cycle is started with the glass half open, that the motor will recognise that it has to keep going backswards first, after all there are no actual switches in the cassette to trigger a message when the glass has reached the end of its cycle, either backwards or forwards.

The really frustrating issue here is that before I took out the cassette the sunroof operated OK. I haven't taken out or replaced any of the drive cable mechanics, just greased the tracks, while it was out. And retrimmed and refitted the sunshade.

I have had to adjust the height of the glass a few times but this is only to either set it slightly up or slightly down, in line with the vehicle roof [ as per RAVE instructions].

At the moment, I have the sunroof closed but only by manipulating it with the switch, a little bit up or a little bit down until it is in about the correct position.

Any advice or suggestions or information to solve this would be gratefully received as it is really driving me crazy. As it is positioned at the moment I am hoping that it is "waterproof" but as there has been no rain I can't tell. Hopefully rain is due tomorrow, and if all is OK it looks like I am going to just unplug the power switch cable from the motor and just leave it permanently closed.

Pierre3.

Who ?

Oh, yes, is he the Formula 1 driver ?

He isn't a male stripper, is he ???

Pierre3.

I posted quite a bit of stuff on the "Opening Time" heading, about retrimming the headlining material which diverted a bit to the problems concerning the sunroof itself. So, I need to ask another question here.

Where is the "neutral" position for the sunroof when you want to start the "Settings" cycle ?

I thought that I had read somewhere that the sunroof needs to be wound back, fully open, first and then the "Close" switch is pressed and kept pressed until the sunroof reaches the "Tilt" position and stops, then press the "Close" until the glass comes back down.

I did try just starting from a closed position - so press "Open", run right back, immediately press "Close" and let the glass return to closed position and continue up to the "Tilt" position, finally pressing the "Close" switch again but having to guess where the correct closed position should be before releasing the "Close" switch. I keep getting a message "Sunroof Open" though.

So, my questions are:

[1] Do I need to start from a fully open position?

[2] Is there a "Neutral" or a "Stop/Start" position where you can set the glass first ?

P.S. As I have been outside a lot, working on the vehicle, my other half wants to paint the kitchen and she put it this way - "I think that we should paint the kitchen". I know what that means, it means "me", not "we". Why is it always "we" ?????????

Pierre3.

Yes, it's a very common error that men have made in the past, thinking that Honey Badger is a stripper, and having arranged a meeting at night have been very, very seriuosly mauled 😅. It just shows, you should always check the reliability of any information before acting on it !!!

Pierre3.

Well, before a row starts and messes up the forum I can tell you that I have just been reviewing videos and articles on the one and only [make a trumpet sound here] - Honey Badger.

That isn't someone's name, it is a genuine really, bad-ass, don't give a f*** animal that lives in Africa and the Middle East. When you watch videos of it, it looks like Mike Tyson sashaying towards you, just oooozing with bad attitude !!! Class act.

Pierre3.

Ha, Morat, tell me about breaking bolts and stuff. I posted my fun and games when refitting the sunroof cassette yesterday, in the " Roof lining retrim" thread.

I had a lot of aggravation trying to refit the sunroof motor, which turned out to be the dumb-ass method of using rivnuts in a metal mounting plate. If you haven't done this job it is one to take care with. There are three plastic spacers, which just pressed into the motor legs and are a loose fit. They are also suicidal:

The bolts that you see have about 5mm thread to go into the rivnuts, but if you apply even a little bit too much torque then "boing", away goes the thread. Those bolts are about 4mm thread and give way far too easily. Then the motor drops a bit and away goes the plastic spacer. In my case one spacers disappeared under the passenger seat and down under the plastic heater vents under the seat. The second one legged it behind and under the brain-box under the drivers' seat !!!

Then I had to find three 4.5 self-tappers to replace the bolts with something a bit more "butch". The motor is now firmly held and working OK.

I probably spent more than an hour looking for both the original bolts, and spacers, during the afternoon. I was getting really cheesed off before I eventually decided it was time to go down the DIY route and make up bigger screws. One thing that was important was grinding down the self-tappers to avoid them being too long and screwing into the car roof !!

Pierre3.

Thanks Gilbert, I have gone through that sequence a couple of times, but I will go through it again. One thing that I notice - when following Martys' suggestion of setting the initial parameters with the motor disconnected if the "Open" switch is kept pressed at the end of it's run backwards the motor stops and then you hear the motor starting clicking. It's a bit strange.

The mechanisms are working fine so it may be that I had got tired and I haven't done a final reset.

Although, I thought that I hade done a reset and when keepng the switch pressed for 10 seconds the motor started clicking when the glass was fully back.

However, with all the distractions of trying to tighten up the bolts that hold the motor, and failing, and having to reposition the cable mechanism on the track it is quite possible that I didn't actually a reset. I will try again on Monday.

I'll get it sorted eventually, I'm sure, because the sunroof worked fine before this.

Pierre3.

By the way, allowing for the sunshade I used 3 cans and a little bit from a 4th can to do the headlining.

Pierre3.

Thanks a lot for all the comments, very much appreciated. I would have really gone ahead without the advise from everybody on the forum who all gave lots of useful information.

Isn't £5 for labour a bit much. You have to give serious consideration to the labour rewards or you could be faced with unsustainable wage demands 😆.

Anyway today I decided to refit the sunroof cassette and check that everything works OK. I have the glass out so, with my willing helper, now being paid 92p an hour after a long employer/employee meeting, I got the empty cassette back in the car. No problem there then. I released my assistant as I didn't want to pay her overtime, as it is Saturday.

So, reconnect the drain tubes, check that the sunshades runs back and forth OK, a bit tight at the moment but very smooth. I checked to see that the "Tilt" position lifters are in the same position and use the T-key to raise the arms to maximum raise so that I could reconnect the lifting arms on the glass panel. Connect these arms, and connect the front hinged arms, fit screws and wind the glass back down to where I think the "Close" position in the vehicle roof would be.

Then remove the motor from the drive cables and run the motor to fully open, hold for a few seconds and then reverse, again holding down the switch at the end of the run. So far, so good. Refit the motor by pushing it up to engage the worm drive in between the drive cables, and fit the three screws to hold the motor to the cassette mounting. Give them a tighten and then run the motor. Whack, clack, whirrr whirrrr, and one side of the glass raises up, the other side doesn't. Bollo - what's happened here.

Remove the glass again, and I noticed that the mechanism that lifts the rear of the glass is at maximum lift on the driver's side but nearly down flat on the window track on the passenger side. How so, I didn't take any of these bits out, I just greased them, although I used the T-key to wind the sunroof mechanism backwards and forwards after greasing.

Get up and have a close look and I see that the pass. side mechanism is about an inch further back on the track than the driver's side. Lift of the strange covers that do a couple of things - they cover the drive cable ends, and they hold a small arm that operates a bit like an oil-well "nodding donkey" sort of action. Why are the two sides both in the same position - I have no idea, but messing about with the pass. side mechanism and it suddenly drives itself forward to the end of the track, so the same as the driver's side. PK, a big sigh of relief, but spend a further 30 minutes trying to get the mechanism cover back into its' correct position, push, twist and slide al together, ensuring I don't break any of the plastics.

Eventually, everything goes back in the correct orientation, so just check but using the T-key again to confirm that both side of the cassette are operating the same. Now to reset [for the umpthteen time, and there are plenty more times before it's finished 😅, the motor parameter, unscrew the motor from the cassette mounting, key in position 1 and run the mechanism back and f ---- no, no, wait a second - whirrrrrrrrrrrrr, click, whirrrrrrrrr. Crap, don't tell me that the worm drive has stripped.

Closer investigation reveals that the rubbish bolt fixing [a 4mm bolt into a captive rivnut] has pulled its thread and the motor isn't pulling up between the drive cables. As I remove the bolts and lower the motor the three plastic spacers, about a half inch thick to make up the space between the motor lugs and the mounting, decide to drop of the motor lugs, and as always happens Sods' Law takes over and two of the spacers disappear down under the front seats ! Therefore take off the plastic trims around the bottom of both front seats, get the torch and the telescopic magnet tool, and fish out one from under the rear seat ventilation tubes. Fish out the second one from the back of the "brainbox" under the driver's seat. Time spent - 45 minutes.

Do another parameter setting of the motor, and try to push up the motor between the drive cables, but with more force. Get the bolts back in, run the motor and - clack, clack, clack, clack. still not running the glass. Undo the first bolt and Sods Law jumps in again [he continued this several more times yet], the bolts vanishes under the driver's seat. 15 minutes later it is recovered, but suddenly another bolt holding the motor legs it too, only this time out of the pass. side door.

In the end, after 8 or 9 further attempts to run the motor, with and without the glass, a solution is decided on. A 4.5mm stainless self-tapping screw to replace each of the original bolts. Finally, finally, there is enough thread and grip to pull the worm drive in between the drive cables. Now - very carefully, and holding the breath, press the switch and, success, the drive mechanisms run backwards, press again and the mechanism comes back. Then get braver - run the mechanism all the way backwards, and back again. Success a second time.

Anyway, having spent all afternoon trying to sort this out I now have a sunroof that does actually go backwards and forwards, and tilts, but the dashboard still says "Sunroof open". For now, it will have to stay like that, but I know that I won't be happy and I will revisit it. I am hoping that it will just be a matter of disconnecting the motor, running the fully open/fully closed parameters, and reconnecting the motor. one a the PITA issues was the stupid bolts that hold the motor. I would say that they go about 5 mm through the captive rivnuts and they are stupidly difficult to get into the screw holes. At least with thicker self-tappers in place it will be easier to [a] get them back in, and [b] get more pressure and grip to pull up the motor.

One issue that I have is that I don't know where the "Stop" or "Neutral" position is for the drive arms on the track. When you press the "Close" switch, to bring the glass back down from "Tilt" there is no position by where the motor stops and puts the roof in the correct "Close" position. I had hoped that I could use the T-key to set the position manually and then use the motor to set the parameters required by the motor. But there isn't a position whereby the mechanism stops moving.

Right at this moment I have to use either the "Open" or "Close" switch to get the glass in the right position. I will have to have a rest for a few days and then think about having another look. I will not be putting the headlining back for the time being, at least until I get the glass to run to the parameters. Arrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sorry for the long saga, you guys all probably have something better to do, like taking the dog to the vet to have him put down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pierre3.