Why aren't spare bulbs a valid comparison? You are correct, spare bulbs, along with a hi-viz vest (at least one for every person in the car and kept in the car not in the boot), warning triangle and first aid kit are mandatory in most European countries, a fire extinguisher in some and snow chains during winter months in some areas. But in most cases they aren't supplied by the manufacturer but the owner. The manufacturer will sell you a kit in a pretty bag if you ask nicely though. So if you follow that logic, car manufacturers are selling a car (in some European countries) that isn't legal for road use.......

Yes got it. Will be going over in 3 or 4 weeks so will have a look at the Etagas to work out how easy it is going to be to remove and then discuss what he wants to do after it has had the registration swapped.

What plonker gave you mod status?

I never said the space savers were B/S, but the statement that since a change in regulations stopped manufacturers from supplying them is almost certainly marketing B/S. Space savers work and are better than a can of gloop and a pump. The ones Mercedes supply are very good, when deflated the sidewalls collapse making them much smaller (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuJZSRC4WQ) but once inflated they are almost the same size as a standard tyre. How the hell you deflate them to get them back in the well I've no idea though. The other links you posted are more accurate, manufacturers have stopped supplying spare wheels to keep the weight down in an effort to give improved emissions figures.

But if you think about it, why did manufacturers supply spare wheels in the first place? Many years ago tyre technology wasn't what it is now, road surfaces were much worse and punctures were far more regular so cars were supplied with at least one, and in many cases two, spare wheels. They don't supply a spare set of light bulbs, or a can of oil or coolant so the owner can replace or top them up, so why should they supply a spare wheel? If you look at the AA stats, callouts to flat batteries are the most common reasons for a visit, but manufacturers don't supply a spare battery. But, as Morat says, if they stopped supplying spare wheels, where would we put the LPG tank?

Agreed, it may be pretty manky but it's at least still in one piece. I modified one from an LPG cap when I did mine.

I'm not sure they were changed or if that is around the time that manufacturers decided to stop supplying them to save weight/cost. I've just checked the IVA test manual which originally came out in 2007, when the IVA replaced the SVA, and it has a list of amendments. The only amendment in the tyres section is minor rewording to account for the fact that VR and ZR rated tyres do not need to have a load rating and that space saver tyres must have the yellow speed warning labels on them. No mention that a spare is mandatory with an amendment in 2012 to say that they no longer are. I suspect it is just bullshit on the part of the company flogging space saver spares. As for not having one for the IVA test, it's like a lot of things on the IVA and MoT, if it's fitted it should work and meet the regs but if it isn't then it isn't included in the test.

I had to change the offside rear on my P38 on the A1(M) up near Leeds. Fortunately, there was a very wide hard shoulder so with the nearside wheels on the grass I was well away from the traffic. As I always carry a trolley jack it took less than 10 minutes to change the wheel. But, I got a flat on the works van, also offside rear, on the M11 on a stretch with only two lanes and a very narrow hard shoulder. Getting my big motorway spec hi vis coat out the back, putting that on, sitting on the grass wondering if the AA would get there before someone drove into it was a much nicer way of spending the time.

Those space savers are intended purely to get you home (they have a very soft compound rubber and only have 3mm of tread when new) and must also have bright yellow stickers on them with the warning not to exceed 50mph. That's one thing that is checked on the IVA test, if it has a spare it must be legal, if it has a space saver it must be clearly marked with Max 50mph/80kph (in English) but if you don't have one there is nothing to check. I've taken cars built for the Russian market for IVA test and they have the yellow label and speed marking in English, French, German and Russian on them. However, the tester said that if they didn't meet the marking requirements, all I needed to do would be take it out so there isn't one. The Road Hero you linked to would fail the IVA test (so would also fail EU Certificate of Conformity) as the sticker isn't bright yellow and it is too small.

The engine still is sweet as a nut and everything else is all working as it should too, it is purely that he can no longer afford to run it on a daily basis. His son is now learning to drive and has bought a little Corsa so he's using that to go to work. Quite what he will do come next year when he needs to get the Granny to shows and use the caravan I've no idea.

At least the tacky V8 badge will come off without leaving any marks if you pour hot water on it, much like the bullbar is only secured using the front bumper and slam panel mounting bolts. I bought the rocker cover gaskets when he first got it from you and we were going to do them one weekend but one or other of us was busy or he was using the car so they never got done. I've still got the gaskets in my garage, genuine LR ones too, not pattern.

Not aware of any regulation that says a car doesn't need a spare wheel. With fleet vehicles companies will often not allow an employee to change a wheel for H&S reasons (driver gets hit while changing a wheel at the side of a motorway, company is liable under H&S legislation as they have not fully exercised their duty of care for the employee). Despite me being employed as a fairly highly paid engineer, I have not had training as a vehicle technician and am not allowed to carry out any work on the works vehicle other than routine daily checks to confirm it is roadworthy (eg. count the wheels, check the dash display to show it has oil in it, etc). Although it has a spare wheel, a jack and a wheelbrace, if I get a flat tyre, I call the lease company breakdown hotline which routes me straight through to the AA. On every occasion I have had a flat (3 or 4 times now), by the time I've felt it the tyre sidewalls are buggered so it needs a new tyre. If I didn't have a spare (or that was flat too), then I would be recovered by the AA to the nearest Kwik Fit for a new tyre. It may be the same with a personal lease too as it isn't the drivers car.

That's how it works with company or leased vehicles, you aren't expected or allowed to do anything yourself. With privately owned vehicles, most drivers under the age of 40 wouldn't know how to change a wheel anyway......

Although as standard the Niro doesn't come with a spare, one can be ordered as an option. The space for it is under the boot floor filled with lumps of sound deadening if you don't have it.

Anyone on here or know anyone that might be interested? This is the car that used to belong to Austin, OldShep, and was bought by one of my neighbours a couple of years ago. He's been using it to tow his Granada to shows, tow his caravan and also to get to work and back. However, the company he works for have moved their depot so it is now costing him over £120 a week just to get to work and he can't afford it.

In the time he's owned it he's fitted a stainless cat back exhaust, a pair of new rear tyres (will need fronts in the not too distant), one rear brake calliper (he has a brand new replacement for the other side but not yet fitted), and a front bullbar (which I think looks bloody awful but it's secured by existing bolts so can easily be removed without leaving any marks). Faults are minimal and mainly cosmetic. The drivers seat base needs a good clean and has sagged a little on the outside edge but doesn't have any splits in the leather and the headlining is drooping, The interior just needs a good clean. The nav system works and has the most up to date disc in it and the DSP amp is fine. The stereo is intermittent and he was told by someone that it was the amp in the boot so he removed the sub and CD changer, couldn't find anything wrong so put it back. When doing that he noticed that if he wiggles a connector it works on and off. When I say the DSP amp is OK, that's going on the fact that when it works, it works on all speakers. Under the bonnet, there are signs of a slight leak from the throttle body heater but he tells me he's only had to put a litre of OAT in it in the entire time he's owned it. The cruise control doesn't work as the hose to the brake pedal has a split in it somewhere (checked by blowing down it). There's no book symbol on the HEVAC but the AC clutch doesn't kick in so suspect a lack of refrigerant (might need a regas or worst case, a condenser). Both rocker cover gaskets are leaking slightly but have been since he's owned it. He's regularly given it an oil and filter change and when he first got it, we replaced a noisy idler and put a new serpentine belt on it. First registered October 2001, 130,000 miles, MoT til May.

However, he is only looking for £1500 for it.

If no-one else steps up, I'll be dropping my missus off at Gatwick on the 23rd.

70 degrees isn't that hot, I've restarted without any problems after 200 odd miles, towing a trailer in ambient temperatures approaching 40 degrees so I suspect the fuel rail temperature would have been much higher. There's a connection on the back of the fuel pressure regulator to the inlet manifold so that fuel pressure is always kept at a fixed pressure relative to manifold depression. Is it possible that there's a bit of muck floating around in the fuel return line blocking it every so often? Fuel pressure will be higher when hot due to thermal expansion anyway but if it can't bleed the pressure off through the return it will be rich on a restart..

Weight isn't so much of a concern on a self charge hybrid. Taking the Kia Niro as an example, the only vehicle currently available in full electric, plug-in and self charge hybrid versions. The full electric has a 64 kWh battery but weighs 2.23 tonnes, almost the same as a P38! The plug in has a 1.6 litre petrol engine and an electric motor powered from a 8.9kWh battery, while the self charge has the same 1.6 litre petrol engine and the electric motor is powered from a puny little 1.5 kWh battery and only weighs 1.93 tonnes. No version comes with a spare wheel as standard either

Microsloth can say what they like but I've been in a datacentre and seen the size of both the refrigeration plant needed to keep it cool and the pair of huge diesel generators using engines originally intended to power a cargo ship needed to power it if the mains fails.. As for the second report, I've never seen a 'report' containing so many ifs and buts, although I am pleased to see that they regard nuclear power as green.....

The advantage of a self charge hybrid is a way of reducing CO2 emissions. Under the current and real world emissions tests, part of it is urban emissions (the bit that VW et al fiddled with their cheat software). So it simulates driving in a city in stop start traffic. During this phase of the test the car runs solely on electric power so zero emissions, then when traffic speeds up, the ICE kicks in. But that has the effect of reducing the overall emissions over that phase of the test. This allows a manufacturer to quote lower CO2 emissions, better fuel consumption figures and gives the owner a nice warm feeling inside. But it's no different to a plug in once the batteries have gone flat. Before the Government did away with the grant scheme, one company leased a fleet of Mitsubishi PHEVs only to find that their running costs went through the roof. When the vehicles came back at the end of their lease they found that the charging cables had never been taken out of their plastic bags so the drivers had been running around in relatively heavy vehicles powered by a 2.4 litre 4 cylinder petrol engine all the time.

If you see a Prius in London, it IS a minicab. Nobody else will spend the extra in buying them just to drive around in probably one of the ugliest cars ever designed. However, even that has backfired a little as the Prius is a self charge hybrid so incapable of the 20 miles at zero emissions required for Congestion Charge exemption. It used to be exempt but not any more. To put it into perspective, a PHEV will do anywhere between 25 and 40 miles on battery power alone while a self charge will be pushed to manage much over a mile. OK if you are sitting in a traffic queue just creeping forward every couple of minutes but not really any other time. The only reason a Prius owning mincab driver will convert to LPG is purely financial, the lower he can get his running costs, the higher his profit, it has naff all to do with emissions.

For dave3d, the other 'mild-hybrids' as they call the diesel/electric combinations, are the Kia Sportage and the Honda CR-V. Other than that they all seem to use a petrol engine as the ICE whether PHEV or self charge.

The way I read it is that all diesels, including private cars, are excluded from the central area, while diesel vans (assuming they class a CDV as a commercial vehicle) will have to pay a charge at certain times of the day and be excluded at others. At the moment it is costing £23 a day to go into central London and this is a cost that we need to avoid. Hopefully, in my view, other councils WILL try to out green each other, the more places diesels are excluded from the better. Even though I will have retired by the time the new fleet is rolled out, I'd like to think I can leave a legacy for the others that is better than the poxy diesel Kangoo vans we have now. I'm pushing towards self-charge hybrid estate cars although as they are taken home every night, but with no private use, there is still a question mark over the BIK status.

Re the Leaf, a woman that works in one of our offices bought one for herself but lives 35 miles from the office. She found that when she first got it, in the summer, she could get to work and back on a full charge. In winter, with lights, heater, wipers, etc on (not to mention the reduced battery performance due to the cold), it ran out of charge before she managed to get home. She started charging it at the office during the day until others started asking for a contribution towards their petrol costs for going to work. She ended up swapping it for the uprated model that could actually do a 70 miles journey whatever the conditions......

Thanks for that one Dave, you've just given me the ammunition to delete diesels totally from our new work fleet.

+1 on Nanocom

Daily, in the region of 22,000 miles a year for the last 9 years. Get the LPG system sorted and you won't even worry about the cost of fuel.

But the most important question is, could I water ski behind it?