It's just a DC pulse, not RF at all. On my car I don't think the coil was removed rather it was never there in the first place as it appears to have been a base model when it came from the production line and went to LR Special Vehicles to be finished. It has the base model manual cloth seats (but with seat heaters), it has no cruise control, didn't have a trip computer (although it does now), it was supplied with no radio and the base spec speaker system (no mid range in the doors, only the 6.5 inch speaker), no wood on the door panels (although again I have swapped the door panels for ones with wood and mid range speakers), the 16x7 inch wheels on 235/70x16 tyres as fitted to a base model diesel and not the 8 inch wide ones on virtually every other car. But it then had the split climate control (rather than the manual system that a base model would have), the front fog lights, the headlamp wash/wipe and other 'useful' options added at Special Vehicles.

Anyway, we are deviating from the topic at hand, Frank's problem, so lets keep it back on track.

davew wrote:

Ok, that is all in LR-speak but it seems to be saying that you (ok, Frank...) has to insert the key into the ignition (which is recognised via RFID), and then the fob sends the RF signal to the BeCM via the receiver etc etc to remove the "Disabled" condition (?).

My main question then is if the key is not first recognised via the RFID/coil system, will (just) pressing the fob button be the same ?
Or, and repeating this in another way, will the BeCM wake up (and also remove immobilsation) if the key is not actually in the ignition ?

In a word, yes. If passive immobilisation has kicked in (due to the delay between unlocking the car and starting the engine), then another press of the unlock button on the fob turns the immobilisation off. The key doesn't need to be anywhere near the ignition at all, it can be anywhere as long as it is in range so the receiver picks up the signal. My car, despite being a 98 but being built to a custom spec for plod, doesn't have the coil and until I turned off passive immobilisation, I got into the habit of pressing unlock before I put the key in the ignition just in case I'd left it too long before trying to start it. This is what has to be done on every early car without the coil, hence the message "Engine Immobilised, Press Remote or Enter Code".

I'll say it again, RFID is NOT used at all. It is the magnetic field generated by the coil. If you read what the document you quoted says, it is quite clear. The key is not recognised at all, as soon as you put the key in the ignition, the switch in the base of the lock (the same one that when it sticks will tell you the key is inserted when it isn't) tells the BeCM you have put the key in. That causes a pulse to be sent to the coil and the magnetic field generated by the coil causes the fob to transmit. This is the automated version of pressing the fob button, generating a coded radio signal that is received by the receiver, passed through to the BeCM and used to turn off the immobiliser as long as the fob and the BeCM are in sync.

Not really, I can just read detached contact diagrams and look it up......

No dave, the only confusion here is being added by you. Syncing the fob is done using the key in the door on all model years. If you had read the ETM for a 99 model, you would see that this is the case and RFID is NOT used and the coil is there to turn off passive immobilisation as I described earlier. The only difference between pre and post 97 model cars is that not all of the early cars had the coil fitted.

See the relevant ETM page

What did I do today? Took it out, drove it around and took a picture of another milestone on the odometer (and yes, that is miles.....). If I'd have filled up with LPG at 388800.0 and not at 388799.9, I'd even have had the trip meter showing all the 8s too.

Grey/White and Grey/Green, 12V one way round sends it up, the other way round sends it down.

In that case either the fob isn't transmitting or the receiver isn't receiving a signal from it. I've got a known good receiver I can send you to try if you think it might help.

Had a look at your VIN and the S reg is correct. Haven't checked it on Microcat yet (as the laptop with it on is also loaded with my sat nav update software and I lent it to my daughter) but from the serial number it is a 98 model car and the number would put it towards the end of production for a 98. My car is an early production 98 model and was built in November 97 but not registered until March 1998. Model year production started around October the previous year so I would suspect yours was built around September 98. So it has a registration number relevant to the year as S reg runs from 1st August 1998 until 28 Feb 1999.

Frank, so it sounds like the S reg plate that is on it is a personal plate that someone has put on it and not the original. If you want to PM me the VIN, I can put it into Microcat which should give the registration number it was first registered with.

But, that still doesn't help you with getting the fob to work so you no longer have to use the EKA. The method of syncing the fob in the door lock works on all cars right up to the end of production, the later cars don't sync the fob it merely turns off passive immobilisation automatically. If the fob batteries have been changed then it will need to be synced. It uses a rolling code so will have lost sync when the old batteries were removed. First you need to check if the fob is transmitting and if the receiver is receiving. Sit in the car somewhere dark and look at the LED next to the gear lever, it will be glowing dimly. Wait 2 minutes and it will go out completely, signifying that the BeCM has gone to sleep. While watching the LED next to the gear lever, press a button on the fob. If the LED doesn't come back on dimly, the receiver is not getting the signal from the fob either because it isn't transmitting anything or the receiver isn't receiving it (but, as you've already replaced it, it is unlikely you've suffered 2 faulty ones).

If the LED comes back on dimly, then the fob is transmitting a code, the receiver is receiving it, it is just that the code is wrong. Now it may be that it is wrong because the two components have lost sync, in which case they need to be synced, or, someone has swapped the fob (and probably locks) for one from a different car. In which case it won't be possible to sync as the code in the fob doesn't match the code programmed into the BeCM. If the latter, then it is possible to change the lockset bar code programmed into the BeCM but that can only be done by a specialist such as Marty (and possibly Sloth?) who would need the fob (to read the fob code) and the BeCM (to programme with the correct code).

However, with a 99 car, then it definitely will be possible to enter the EKA with a Nanocom and, hopefully, once it has been entered, you won't need to enter it every time if you lock with the key. However, be cautious, the fact that it doesn't always take the EKA suggests that the microswitches in the latch are starting to get worn so don't always respond as they should so it could still leave you locked out one day.

davew wrote:

(And I am sure it must be mentioned elsewhere but I do wish LR had written that "passive immobilisation" is simply
just a fancy name for having an RF pick-up coil aroud the ignition barrel..... ie 'passive' is basically a misnomer too !

But it isn't. It is passive in as much as the immobiliser kicks in if you unlock the door but don't start the engine within a set time so it is passive as it doesn't require any input from the driver, it is merely timed. There's a number of ways the locking and immobilisation works.

If you unlock the car on the fob, the immobiliser is turned off and the doors unlocked but if you don't open a door within 30 seconds, the car will lock itself again and set the immobiliser. It assumes you pressed the button by accident and this prevents you unlocking the car with your key in your pocket and walking away leaving it unlocked.

If you unlock the car with the fob, open a door but don't start the engine within 30 seconds, one of two things will happen. If passive immobilisation is enabled on an early car, the immobiliser kicks in after 30 seconds and when you do eventually try to start the car the dash will display Press Remote or Enter Code. At this point you need to either press the unlock button on the fob again or enter the EKA code to turn the immobiliser off before it will let you start the car (there is a third option which is to get out of the car, close the doors, lock it with the fob, unlock it again with the fob and start it within 30 seconds).

On the later cars when you turn the ignition on, the coil around the ignition sends a magnetic pulse which is picked up by the large surface mount Inductor on the end of the fob PCB which causes the fob to automatically transmit the unlock code. This is picked up by the receiver mounted under the RH rear parcel shelf just the same as when you unlocked it. So it isn't an RF pick-up coil at all, it is there purely to generate a magnetic field. You can see it operate as the LED on the fob will flash when you turn the key in the ignition.

If passive immobilisation is turned off in the BeCM, then you can unlock the car and as long as you open a door within 30 seconds, it doesn't matter how long you wait before trying to start the car, the immobiliser was turned off when you unlocked it and it doesn't turn back on. In that case, you will never get the Press Remote of Enter Code message on an early car and the fob will not transmit when in the ignition on a later one.

I wouldn't believe that guide, both methods are wrong. The first method is a little more complicated than that and the second method does not synchronise an out of sync fob, it is merely the normal operation if passive immobilisation is enabled. It stops you being asked to press Unlock or enter the EKA if you unlocked the car but didn't start it immediately so the passive immobilisation kicked in and immobilised it again.

I'd rather do heater O rings any day compared with exhaust manifold gaskets. On a RHD, the very back bolt on the RH manifold is a real pain to get to so I would assume the LH one is similar for you.

Halfords battery in a DSE, there's a recipe for a non start if ever I heard one......

That's right, I think it is 2000 model or later, although that does assume the coil around the lock barrel hasn't broken, which it often has.

and there speaks the barbecue expert, so any advice from Morat must be correct.

It sounds about right to me, at the very least I'd expect over 10 Amps per heater. I had a Peugeot 406 HDi company car a few years ago and with additional kit installed if it was left for more than 4 days (like over a bank holiday weekend) it would need a jump start. When the ignition was first switched on, it would crank over fine but not start as the heaters hadn't had time to do their thing. If I turned the ignition on and waited for the glow plug light to go out, I could see the panel lights dim as the heaters drew the last remaining current from the battery so then it would no longer have enough to spin it over on the starter.

I'd be more concerned if it was drawing a lot less as that would suggest that not all of the glowplugs were working.

I went to Inverness once, many years ago. Made a welcome change from getting eaten alive by the midges on the West Coast......

To do a proper Summer Camp we'd need Marty to be about so we can use his workshop facilities and make sure Morat is there to drive the barbecue. Although Marty seems to be away working more than he's at home these days. If there's an alternative location, we could have a headlining session elsewhere but whoever provides the location would need to be aware that they would be finding bits of sticky orange coloured foam stuck to the underside of their shoes for weeks afterwards.

Hi Donald and welcome. Experienced, yes, considerate, yes, but sometimes the ribbing can appear less than polite. But, many of have met up in person at times so a bit of sarcasm creeps in. How far North in Scotland? Gordon who runs this forum is near Glasgow (which I know isn't that far North) and there's a couple of others in his area.

dave3d wrote:

Keep the Avo 8, a collectors item. It is probably appreciating in price. Haven't seen one for years.

That's good to hear, I've got 2, may try flogging one of them. They may be big and clunky but if you are looking at a varying voltage you can't beat a big needle compared with a digital display.

I've got a clamp on meter that I inherited from my father but it wouldn't help as it only does AC and has 2 scales, 0-200A and 0-1000A. Not sure how accurate it is either as I tried it on one of the mains tails in the house and it reckoned I was only drawing 4A. For checking current drain I just use a cheap multimeter on the 10A scale. I've only blown one up over the years..... The central locking draws about 8A, the BeCM when awake draws around 2.5A and when it goes to sleep the draw should drop to about 20mA. The Sealey tester is what an AA man used many years ago to diagnose a burnt out petrol pump from when I ran an LPG fuelled Saab too low on petrol. The pump wasn't drawing any current so it was pretty conclusive that I'd buggered it.

I put a smear of the red raspberry jam brake seal grease (the stuff we all have a 30+ year old tin of) on the inside of the boots on the plug leads. That way they don't stick to the plugs and you can get them off when the time comes.